Jump to content

Welcome to MSFN Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account


Photo

[Solved] On the uncanny disappearance of Wayback Machine redirects

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1
monroe

monroe

    Friend of MSFN

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 788 posts
  • OS:XP Pro x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

Nota Bene: This thread started because of post #45 in the Free Software sticky thread, and the two posts following it. I've split all further discussions to keep that thread on-topic, while providing a place for what seems will be a quite interesting troubleshooting.
This note, of course, is a later addition by dencorso.


Thanks jaclaz for the tip ... I forgot about the Wayback Machine and now remember that dencorso has mentioned it many times. I've never spent much time at the site but I will get more familiar with it.

You asked what I see when I click on the link from dencorso's post, if I understand you correctly ...

I get this:


Page Not Found
The page you requested does not exist: www.utdallas.edu/~jeremy.bryan.smith/articles/explorer_spy.html
You may have arrived here because of:

* a broken link, or
* an out-of date bookmark, or
* a search engine which needs to be updated, or
* a mistyped website address.
link:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

At the Wayback Machine site I found a good snapshot dated 13 Feb 2005 and August 22, 2003.

Yet Another Method Windows Uses to Log Your Computer Activity

Jeremy Bryan Smith aka Helamonster
08 June 2002, Update 04 March 2003, Update 18 August 2003

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

That's pretty neat, I really didn't understand how the site actually worked ... thanks again jaclaz !
...


How to remove advertisement from MSFN

#2
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developers
  • 13,394 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
There has been a misunderstanding. :w00t:

dencorso (on post #45, right above your post #46 where you were whining :ph34r: about the lost page) had ALREADY posted the links through the Wayback Machine.
I thought you were referring to those ones..... :whistle:

Anyway, the main thing is that you got what you were looking for :).

jaclaz

#3
dencorso

dencorso

    Adiuvat plus qui nihil obstat

  • Super Moderator
  • 5,543 posts
  • OS:98SE
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

You asked what I see when I click on the link from dencorso's post, if I understand you correctly ...

I get this:


Page Not Found
The page you requested does not exist: www.utdallas.edu/~jeremy.bryan.smith/articles/explorer_spy.html
You may have arrived here because of:

* a broken link, or
* an out-of date bookmark, or
* a search engine which needs to be updated, or
* a mistyped website address.


:blink: That's simply impossible!
The result you're getting is the one anyone would get if trying to go directly to the old link, without using the Wayback Machine!!! :wacko:

This link goes through the Wayback Machine, and should work OK. -+- -+- Now, this one does not (and shows the above message).

Both links simply cannot send you to the same place, or there's something really amiss with your browser or security settings... :whistle:

#4
monroe

monroe

    Friend of MSFN

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 788 posts
  • OS:XP Pro x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

dencorso ... I have no clue but your earlier posted links do not work for me. I use K-Meleon browser and I tried them in IE8 ... all I get is the guy with the dropped ice cream with:

Page Not Found
The page you requested does not exist: www.utdallas.edu/~jeremy.bryan.smith/articles/explorer_spy.html
You may have arrived here because of:

* a broken link, or
* an out-of date bookmark, or
* a search engine which needs to be updated, or
* a mistyped website address.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was able to find everything on my own with the K-Meleon browser at the Wayback Machine web site so it's all OK. I just have to do a few extra steps to get the info but it works.
...

Edited by duffy98, 28 April 2013 - 03:17 PM.


#5
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developers
  • 13,394 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

I was able to find everything on my own with the K-Meleon browser at the Wayback Machine web site so it's all OK. I just have to do a few extra steps to get the info but it works.
...

The misunderstanding goes on .... :ph34r:
duffy :),
go up a few posts until you see post #45.
Try ckicking on the links dencorso posted in THAT post (#45): http://www.msfn.org/...ost__p__1038159
IF they don't take you to the site THROUGH the Wayback Machine, THEN your machine/internet connection/whatever have some (serious :w00t: ) issues.

jaclaz

#6
monroe

monroe

    Friend of MSFN

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 788 posts
  • OS:XP Pro x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

No misunderstanding on my part ... the three links in post #45 do not work the way are supposed to for me. Since no one else has posted about the links not working for them then I will assume that I am the only forum member who has a problem ... but the link you posted for the Wayback Machine and searching the URLs at that site got me the information that I wanted. For now, I will accept the fact that the links problem is on my end and I will research and experiment with some things ... I may get it figured out or may never find the solution. I have never noticed any other problems with links not working but now I am aware of the fact that there may be problems with some links.

thanks ...
...

#7
dencorso

dencorso

    Adiuvat plus qui nihil obstat

  • Super Moderator
  • 5,543 posts
  • OS:98SE
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

Definitely, something is rotten in the state of Denmark... err... on your browsing or security configuration! :yes:

All the links in my post #45 in the Free Software thread, as well as the left hand link on http://www.msfn.org/...st&pid=1038224'>post #3 go through the Wayback Machine. The right hand link on http://www.msfn.org/...st&pid=1038224'>post #3, however, does not. The fact that you can connect the Wayback Machine directly and perform a successful search therefrom shows there's nothing wrong with your ability to connect the Wayback Machine. Hence, I conclude something is set to remove redirects from your links at some stage during a connection attempt on your part. Let me explain it further:

On my http://www.msfn.org/...st&pid=1038224'>post #3, the left hand link is called by the text "This link goes through the Wayback Machine, and should work OK", and it contains the following url underneath it:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050212215255/http://www.utdallas.edu/~jeremy.bryan.smith/articles/explorer_spy.html
while the right hand link is called by the text "Now, this one does not (and shows the above message).", and it contains the following url underneath it:

http://www.utdallas.edu/~jeremy.bryan.smith/articles/explorer_spy.html
Now, since you get the same result from both, something somewhere must be removing

http://web.archive.org/web/20050212215255/
from the former. Do you use Proximitron, perchance?

#8
monroe

monroe

    Friend of MSFN

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 788 posts
  • OS:XP Pro x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

OK dencorso ... mystery solved. Yes, I use Proxomitron and I placed it on Bypass and your links in Post #45 do work. I have used Proxomitron for many years and am aware that I need to set it to Bypass or temporary turn it off for certain web sites. I could swear that I did that earlier this morning ... temporary put Proxomitron on Bypass when jaclaz posted that the links do work ... but I must not have done so or it didn't completely take hold ... anyway, I now know to check links in the forum both ways from now on. Sorry for all the commotion.
...

Edited by duffy98, 28 April 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#9
dencorso

dencorso

    Adiuvat plus qui nihil obstat

  • Super Moderator
  • 5,543 posts
  • OS:98SE
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

There's nothing to be sorry about... :)
It seems my crystal ball is tuned great today! :w00t:
It's too bad it never lasts much, though... :unsure:

#10
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developers
  • 13,394 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

There's nothing to be sorry about... :)

Oh, yes, there is. :blink:

The assuming by duffy98 that other members do have a crystal ball AND that it is tuned properly.
While this applies to a few of us, sometimes, he should assume that crystal balls do not exist or that are not at all accurate and try and be as clear and precise as possible, so that there are no (or less) possible misunderstanding.

It seems my crystal ball is tuned great today! :w00t:
It's too bad it never lasts much, though... :unsure:

Sorry to say so, but that was yesterday, you still have to prove it is still tuned today.
BTW, and JFYI, bhplt is claiming here:
http://www.msfn.org/...ost__p__1038271
to also have one :wacko: , though I checked and he is not in the lists at RCBUA (Registered Crystal Ball Users Association).
He must be using one of those cheap no-name plastic ones .... :lol:

jaclaz

#11
monroe

monroe

    Friend of MSFN

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 788 posts
  • OS:XP Pro x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

OK ... just how many Crystal Balls are out there? I think I'd rather like to have one of the Crystal Skulls that are somewhat rare.

Anyway, so as not to leave anyone with some bad impressions concerning Proxomitron, should they be new to the application. As I said earlier, have used it for many years with Windows 98SE and now on Windows XP . It took me around two years to finally start to understand how to get the proper adjustments and to understand how it works ... but it was all worth it. I really like that program and most of the time I can just leave it quietly working to do it's thing ... filter various sites and places on the internet. I can go for days and weeks and never have to put it on Bypass ... but every once in awhile something comes along requiring Bypass to be checked, like yesterday. Just wanted to clear a few things up about Proxomitron should someone have an interest in it down the road. It's a really good program.
...

Edited by duffy98, 29 April 2013 - 05:51 AM.


#12
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developers
  • 13,394 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

I think I'd rather like to have one of the Crystal Skulls that are somewhat rare.

Naah :no: , our highly reliable sources :unsure: tell us that you need THREE of them (and a control ring) in order to have some benefits (you know, like unlimited powers ;) ):
http://en.wikipedia....popular_culture

jaclaz

#13
Drugwash

Drugwash

    MSFN Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,181 posts
  • OS:98SE
  • Country: Country Flag
Well now, since I accidentally landed here, I'd like to add to the knowldge by telling anyone that uses Redirect Cleaner in Firefox (or other browser, if available) to temporarily disable it for such webarchive links, or they will get the very same result as duffy98 earlier. I know it's easy to forget about it, it happens to me pretty frequently (but I'm absent-minded by definition). :)

#14
monroe

monroe

    Friend of MSFN

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 788 posts
  • OS:XP Pro x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

Thanks Drugwash for the heads up ... so these programs seem to stop webarchive links. Now I will be aware of this in the future. It's funny that I could go to the Wayback Machine web site and all was OK with Proxomitron running normal and I have gone many times to sites that have older software programs available ... Old Software (.com), Old Version (.com) and others and everything runs normal. Like I said earlier, it's not often that I run into something where I have to disable Proxomitron.
...

#15
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developers
  • 13,394 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

It's funny that I could go to the Wayback Machine web site and all was OK with Proxomitron running normal and I have gone many times to sites that have older software programs available ...

Not really "funny".

I mean, imagine that Proxomitron parses an URL for the presence of the string "http://" and set's that as the beginning of the URL discarding anything before it.... it suddenly becomes "pretty much normal"....
http://web.archive.org/web/20050212215255/http://www.utdallas.edu/~jeremy.bryan.smith/articles/explorer_spy.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20050212215255/http://www.utdallas.edu/~jeremy.bryan.smith/articles/explorer_spy.html
becomes:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050212215255/http://www.utdallas.edu/~jeremy.bryan.smith/articles/explorer_spy.html
and lands nicely here:
http://www.utdallas....plorer_spy.html


jaclaz

#16
Drugwash

Drugwash

    MSFN Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,181 posts
  • OS:98SE
  • Country: Country Flag
You're welcome! :)

If you analyze the structure of the links (all filters disabled), you'll see it's one URL calling another URL. In certain conditions, add-ons/filters/etc consider this practice as suspicious and simply remove everything but the latest "readable" URL from the whole link, that is why clicking the webarchive links will always go to the original URL instead of the redirected one.

I've never used Proxomitron so can't speak about it, but in case of Redirect Cleaner which I always use, one can always see the usable address (URL) when hovering a link in a page. By toggling the Redirect Cleaner button in the statusbar, the address will change accordingly and will show whether it's gonna run through webarchive (when disabled) or the original URL, stripped from redirector (when enabled). This goes for any other page/service that uses such redirection, so it's best to keep the idea in mind and always check whether the redirection is allowed and it's safe to follow it.

In addition, NoScript can also block some redirections, but it usually displays that in a topbar, with a button to allow it. That one can be missed too, sometimes. ;)

#17
dencorso

dencorso

    Adiuvat plus qui nihil obstat

  • Super Moderator
  • 5,543 posts
  • OS:98SE
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

I believe it should be possible to create some exclusion in Proxomitron's rules for the Wayback Machine. But I'm no expert in it so, we'll have to wait for herbalist to chime in about it sometime (btw, I've see no posts by him since last year, at least... hoe all is well!). In any case it should be pointed out that links to content inside the Wayback Machine are one of the rare occasions in which url redirects are used on purpose, with no sinister intent behind them.

#18
monroe

monroe

    Friend of MSFN

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 788 posts
  • OS:XP Pro x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

OK ... thanks for more clarification. You guys have the knowledge of how stuff really works and I learn new things along the way. After jaclaz went into exactly what was going on and also Drugwash, I went to dencorso's Post #45 to check it all out. Here are my results with hovering the curser over the first link. I never knew that there could be something before http:// , just never noticed it before ... so now I can easily check or look for that quickly in the future.

From the 1st link in Post #45 :

With Proxomitron running normal ...

http://www.utdallas....plorer_spy.html

-----------------

With Proxomitron running in Bypass mode ...

http://web.archive.o...plorer_spy.html


... really great stuff here for me and maybe others for the future.


dencorso ... I have also been wondering about herbalist ... it's really been a long time since he posted anything. I sent him a message with some questions about security but he never read it. Hope all is well.

thanks

Edited by duffy98, 29 April 2013 - 09:12 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users



How to remove advertisement from MSFN