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nostaglic98

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39 posts in this topic

Is that the option of booting into DOS from the start menu? I'd need some guidance if I were doing that, because I'd hate to brick the computer. Personally, I would much rather use a Floppy and the method prescribed by ASUS (And yes, it is a P4P800-MX).

Thats fine if you are not comfortable using me and jaclaz methods. We were just informing you, that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

AGAIN! I have TWO "bricks" sitting beside me because of "partial" BIOS plus done-in-Windows! (Nya-nya!) SAD part is, unknown to me, they WOULD have run under (safely) DOS.

I have never done this, but in case I do, how do you fix something like this?

Only thing I've actually noticed is all the processor information disappearing from "System Information."

Also bear in mind that THIS PC has been loaded with Win98SE and the Unofficial SP, not to be confused with the OTHER PC... (MAY be a "glitch" in the detecting of the CPU for display in System Properties.)

You both are correct. Here is the thing, SYSDM.CPL 4.10.0.2224 from Win98 SE hotfix/update removes the cpu information. Microsoft did this, not me. If you install Main Updates you'll get SYSDM.CPL 4.10.0.2224. If you install USBSTACK.EXE, which updates SYSDM.CPL 4.10.0.2224 to SYSDM.CPL 4.90.0.3002, you will get the cpu info back. It also allows silent installation of USB flash drives etc... You can also use the original Win98 SE version, but it doesn't have the bug fixes. Thanks submix8c and nostaglic98, I will add it to important notices/bugs in the chm file. There is also some threads about this issue, I'm too lazy to search atm. Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD
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AGAIN! I have TWO "bricks" sitting beside me because of "partial" BIOS plus done-in-Windows! (Nya-nya!) SAD part is, unknown to me, they WOULD have run under (safely) DOS.

I have never done this, but in case I do, how do you fix something like this?

To my knowledge, unless you are using a "newer" system with a dual, or backup, BIOS for just such an emergency, there is no way to fix this using just the PC itself. You either have to get a replacement BIOS chip from the motherboard or system manufacturer or some other BIOS chip supplier or eBay or something, or you have to borrow one and make a copy, if you have a EPROM programmer and a blank EPROM, assuming your BIOS chip is socketed, which all older ones were. I know of no other way.

Cheers and Regards

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AGAIN! I have TWO "bricks" sitting beside me because of "partial" BIOS plus done-in-Windows! (Nya-nya!) SAD part is, unknown to me, they WOULD have run under (safely) DOS.

I have never done this, but in case I do, how do you fix something like this?

You miss this reference ;):

jaclaz

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If you mean hot-swapping, then yes i guess you could say that is another way, or you could just say that is using the PC in place of the EPROM programmer and using your existing "broken" BIOS chip instead of a new blank one and still requires you having to borrow or obtain another BIOS chip that works in the PC, if I understand the procedure correctly.

Cheers and Regards

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If you mean hot-swapping, then yes i guess you could say that is another way, or you could just say that is using the PC in place of the EPROM programmer and using your existing "broken" BIOS chip instead of a new blank one and still requires you having to borrow or obtain another BIOS chip that works in the PC, if I understand the procedure correctly.

Cheers and Regards

Yep :), and with the motherboards where the chip is soldered is evidently a much more complex thing to do.

BTW it of course depends, but it seems like the "boot-block" (in those chips that do have it) is the same (i.e. it is not "model specific") which can enlarge the choice of possible candidate "donours".

jaclaz

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@jaclaz said;

"Both PROBLEMCHYLD and myself provided possible alternatives to

a "real" floppy drive. Nothing more, nothing less."

+Rather, more was less... your method required a CD burner,

burner software, burnable disc(s) and a learning curve the OP

intelligently and politely declined to follow. You are to be

commended for your eagerness to provide information, however

simply obtaining a working $5 floppy drive and carefully

following the motherboard makers directions proved to be the

'smart' choice. I suggested that course as a result of actually

investigating the OP's previous posts to see how knowledgeable

(and importantly how }careful{ ) he seemed to be.

[Did you try, for instance, to ascertain what motherboard he had,

which would be very relevant if that motherboard happened to have

a 'Phoenix Award Bios v6.00PG'? Reference via your own link.]

@jaclaz said;

"submix8c"... "provided some further ranting"...

+Mmmm, like you, I'm not convinced that he has taken all the

actions (cheaply) possible to get his Dell E521's fixed.

PM to him from me w/suggestions to follow tommorrow. (PM's to

nostaglic98 regarding some of his other troubles occupied earlier.]

@submix8 said;

"Jaclaz' post #8 is not "magical""... [emphasis] "and is quite simple,

so why the "trek down that route""... [quotation] "comment?"

+You should be aware that when you use "magical" in double quotation

marks, readers 'will' think you are quoting someone... go figure.

Could you please consider using single quotes e.g. 'magical', so

everyone realizes you are e.g. merely emphasizing the word 'magical'.

[i say Perdue University has a lot to answer for.]

@jaclaz said:

"Everything seems to me cool enough"..."sprung by magic out of the

blue"...

+Yep, which calms us all with the pleasant mental image of jaclaz

pounding away on his keyboard, (strange scents hazing the air),

whilst attired in Joseph's Technicolor Dreamcoat.....

~Goodnight~!

Edited by buyerninety
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+You should be aware that when you use "magical" in double quotation

marks, readers 'will' think you are quoting someone... go figure.

Not really :no: , on a board, UNLIKE what you normally use, there are QUOTE tags that EVERYONE uses to quote someone else, and double quotes are used to mean " between quotes" (either single or double).

Question :w00t: , when you make gesture "between quotes" do you use just your index (or middle :ph34r:) finger or both of them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_quotes

Now, if you would be so kind to learn how to use the board software properly and along the conventions everyone else uses, I am sure your posts would be much more readable :).

jaclaz

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Yep... it's a Bee-otch reading that stuff! "My eyes, my eyes!"

E52's are - DOORSTOPS! The BIOS are SOLDERED (I said that). The BIOS files are NOT "BIOS files" but some kind of Dell Abortion (I said that). The Boot Blocks are - ge-fudged (I think that should have been understood). I would HAVE to get - #1 a GOOD (FULL) BIOS, #2 an EEPROM programmer, and #3 the PATIENCE to desolder AND put it back afterward. Let it go, buyerninety, you did NOT go through the he$$ (time is $) I did with this (NOT a "noob", dude)! Jaclaz kindly provided a link to my "other" rants. DO IT FROM DOS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE or at MINIMUM "Safe Mode" if no DOS-based BIOS updates! NO HIBERNATES, ETC! You WILL blow it up! It's all about ME-MO-RY-U-T-IL-I-ZA-TION! Don't utilize it - the Update NEEDS it to be STABLE!

As for the OTHER responses by others, GOOD! It's "kind of" resolved (including finding the "glitch").

As for buyerninety's "assumption" that jaclaz was proposing JUST a CD-boot WOW just WOW!!! Perhaps they should look at Grub4DOS - never heard of a Bootable Flash Drive (I have a LiveXP one sitting right here)? WOW!!! YES, it would boot to a Floppy image that way as well!

"Goodnight (9:30 am)" (must live somewhere near jaclaz) O/T - Look up the phrase "bandying words"...

(WOW! :w00t: )

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Made an attempt to do this yesterday. Floppy was readable when I got it, formatted, added the DOS Utility and BIOS file. Rebooted, and floppy has become unreadable, and is totally dead.

Go figure...

Does anyone have the instructions for the method via DOS? I'm willing to try that. It seems this floppy drive *MIGHT* be a disk-eater, though its barely used and didn't scrape the floppy at all.

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@PROBLEMCHYLD, asked:

"I have never done this, but in case I do, how do you fix something like this?"

@bphlpt replied:

"If you mean hot-swapping,"... and went on to give his outline of it.

+I would add (hot swapping may not be necessary as);

It depends if the fu-barred computer can still spinup & read the floppy drive. If it

can, AND you have a BIOS image AND flashing software that understands how to flash the

image into that motherboards EEPROM (AND understands access method to EEPROM

through the Southbridge) then you can succeed.

(Even without a working keyboard!) How? Well like...; working floppy drive, a

Win98 system disk made using "format a: /S" and take off everything except IO.SYS

MSDOS.SYS & COMMAND.COM, ensure NO Bad Sectors & Defrag the Floppy disk,

then place an AUTOEXEC.BAT (onto it) with line awdflash bios.bin /py /sn /cc

(substituting your bios image filename for 'bios.bin'),

awdflash Bios flashing software, Bios Image file (a ROM or BIN or such).

The floppy spins up, is read by the EEPROM bootblock routines, throws to the StartUp

files on the floppy, which throws to AUTOEXEC.BAT, which throws to the Bios flashing

software which (with appropriate switches) automatically accesses and flashes the bios

file into the motherboard EEPROM (without need for keyboard anything!).

++ [HOWEVER, note that in the specific case where the original bios used

in the motherboard specified a }default option of 'Disable USB Keyboard'{ , in this case

I think that you would want to make sure that you are flashing the bios with a more RECENT

bios (that should have this option fixed!) to be }default option is 'Enable USB Keyboard'{ .

Attempting to flash using e.g. an original bios BACKUP, would just put the faulty 'Disable

USB Keyboard' setting back in. ]

(Others posting in this topic would no doubt point out that flashing could also proceed

using a CD Drv, given necessary CD driver files being available on the StartUp disk,

OR EVEN no floppy drv & a CD drv with CD in it & having filesystem/files on it -as jaclaz

could explain better than myself.)

Cheers (P.S. didn't ignore nostalgic98, just addressed him via P.M.)

Edited by buyerninety
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@buyerninety, What the heck are you talking about?

As a general rule, if the computer becomes "bricked" because of a failed BIOS update, the computer is TOTALLY dead, ie "bricked", like a brick, completely non-functional. Not only will you not have any keyboard access, but no display, no mouse, no floppy, no CD, no hard drive, it will not do post tests, it will not beep, it is totally and completely dead, like a doorstop, boat anchor, etc. It is not a matter of the viability of any of the peripherals like the keyboard, it essentially kills the brains of the motherboard. I suppose that there might be an extremely remote possibility that the BIOS update failure will still leave the computer so that it can boot, which it would need to be able to do in your scenario, and just effect the operation of the keyboard, and maybe mouse and display, but the odds of that being your only damage are so astronomically tiny as to not be worth mentioning.

And as jaclaz has kindly asked you, please try to learn how to utilize the various forum functions, such as bold and

quote

etc, and paragraph spacing, and maybe not add a carriage return every 80 or 90 characters or so, (if you wish to continue to do the latter, if you will address the other suggestions I'm sure it will help the rest of us read your posts), ie, please try to make your posts easier to read. Thanks for your cooperation.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt
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bphlpt said;

"As a general rule, if the computer becomes "bricked" because of a failed BIOS update, the computer is TOTALLY dead"

Mmmm, EXCEPT I Specifically stated;

"If the fu-barred computer can still spinup & read the floppy drive" so your comment doesn't apply. Incidently, submix8c

has described his two systems as "bricked", "fu-bared" and as "doorstop" elsewhere; apparently one totally as you describe,

the other maybe some life... here's an exact quote, admittedly from weeks back;

"First one is toast, second one even a PCI->PS2 may not save it since it NEEDS a Keyboard to even enter the BIOS.."

SO if you have a problem with terminology used, please take it up with him.

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Mmmm, EXCEPT I Specifically stated;

"If the fu-barred computer can still spinup & read the floppy drive" so your comment doesn't apply.

Sorry, but since, in my opinion, your condition has about a 0.00000001% chance of existing, I still feel that my comment applies. If anyone can truthfully state that what you have described has happened to them because of a failed BIOS update, which was the situation that PROBLEMCHYLD inquired about, then I will happily amend my statement to saying that I think it only has a 0.000001% chance of existing.

Incidently, submix8c

has described his two systems as "bricked", "fu-bared" and as "doorstop" elsewhere; apparently one totally as you describe,

the other maybe some life... here's an exact quote, admittedly from weeks back;

"First one is toast, second one even a PCI->PS2 may not save it since it NEEDS a Keyboard to even enter the BIOS.."

SO if you have a problem with terminology used, please take it up with him.

I have no problem with what submix8c said. (It would have been helpful if you had provided a link back to the post so that I could have read his complete response in context, it's here by the way.) You have to also look at one of his previous posts to get the full context:

Two $5 doorstops made just last weekend. Dell's - the first doorstop due to the Dell BIOS Update run on the OEM XP (not Safe Mode). Both E521's - original and Backup Mobo - Clear CMOS Jumper does just that all right - resets the whole shebang to Disabled so no USB Keyboard to even Reset Defaults. Have yet to attempt an Add-In PCI PS/2 Card (to be found/purchased).

The way I understood that was the first one "bricked" due to a failed BIOS update, and the second one got screwed up when he cleared CMOS, that's a very different thing. In the second case, thanks to an idiotic melding of BIOS software and motherboard hardware by Dell, clearing the CMOS disabled his USB keyboard and the motherboard does not have a PS2 socket for him to plug in a PS2 keyboard, so the BIOS and motherboard might still "work", but he has no way to access it, not even to edit the BIOS settings to be able to re-enable the USB keyboard, so it's still a doorstop, but might be fixable with the purchase of additional parts, or your suggestion might work if he has a copy of the BIOS code that has the USB keyboard enabled.

I have no problem with submix8c's terminology.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt
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We are certainly in perfect and calm agreement then.

Unfortunately submix8c's copy of the bios was a backup copy (and if I

understand him, not the full 512Kbyte), -so it is not the more recent

bios that should have the fix for the default option - 'USB keyboard enabled'.

Search finds no-one except submix8c on these Boards owning a E521.

Should I whispher it? even those S-L-I-Cer's don't seem to have a full RECENT 512Kbyte

bios image available either.

Time for bed. Cheers

Edited by buyerninety
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As for buyerninety's "assumption" that jaclaz was proposing JUST a CD-boot WOW just WOW!!! Perhaps they should look at Grub4DOS - never heard of a Bootable Flash Drive (I have a LiveXP one sitting right here)? WOW!!! YES, it would boot to a Floppy image that way as well!

Just for the record, and to clarify, jaclaz never actually proposed a flash drive, he provided two possibilities:

  1. using grub4dos to boot a floppy image (without specifying where the grub4dos and the floppy image should reside, it could well be the hard disk - and as well a flash drive, a second hard disk a ZIP or a CF card)
  2. using alternatively an El-Torito emulation bootable CD

The whole point is/was that a floppy image loaded by grub4dos or by the BIOS El-torito emulation for the CD is to all effects and "from DOS" a floppy, and suitable to flash a BIOS.

jaclaz

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