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#26
bphlpt

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@buyerninety, What the heck are you talking about?

As a general rule, if the computer becomes "bricked" because of a failed BIOS update, the computer is TOTALLY dead, ie "bricked", like a brick, completely non-functional. Not only will you not have any keyboard access, but no display, no mouse, no floppy, no CD, no hard drive, it will not do post tests, it will not beep, it is totally and completely dead, like a doorstop, boat anchor, etc. It is not a matter of the viability of any of the peripherals like the keyboard, it essentially kills the brains of the motherboard. I suppose that there might be an extremely remote possibility that the BIOS update failure will still leave the computer so that it can boot, which it would need to be able to do in your scenario, and just effect the operation of the keyboard, and maybe mouse and display, but the odds of that being your only damage are so astronomically tiny as to not be worth mentioning.

And as jaclaz has kindly asked you, please try to learn how to utilize the various forum functions, such as bold and

quote


etc, and paragraph spacing, and maybe not add a carriage return every 80 or 90 characters or so, (if you wish to continue to do the latter, if you will address the other suggestions I'm sure it will help the rest of us read your posts), ie, please try to make your posts easier to read. Thanks for your cooperation.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt, 11 June 2013 - 01:48 AM.

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#27
buyerninety

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bphlpt said;
"As a general rule, if the computer becomes "bricked" because of a failed BIOS update, the computer is TOTALLY dead"
Mmmm, EXCEPT I Specifically stated;
"If the fu-barred computer can still spinup & read the floppy drive" so your comment doesn't apply. Incidently, submix8c
has described his two systems as "bricked", "fu-bared" and as "doorstop" elsewhere; apparently one totally as you describe,
the other maybe some life... here's an exact quote, admittedly from weeks back;
"First one is toast, second one even a PCI->PS2 may not save it since it NEEDS a Keyboard to even enter the BIOS.."
SO if you have a problem with terminology used, please take it up with him.

#28
bphlpt

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Mmmm, EXCEPT I Specifically stated;
"If the fu-barred computer can still spinup & read the floppy drive" so your comment doesn't apply.

Sorry, but since, in my opinion, your condition has about a 0.00000001% chance of existing, I still feel that my comment applies. If anyone can truthfully state that what you have described has happened to them because of a failed BIOS update, which was the situation that PROBLEMCHYLD inquired about, then I will happily amend my statement to saying that I think it only has a 0.000001% chance of existing.

Incidently, submix8c
has described his two systems as "bricked", "fu-bared" and as "doorstop" elsewhere; apparently one totally as you describe,
the other maybe some life... here's an exact quote, admittedly from weeks back;
"First one is toast, second one even a PCI->PS2 may not save it since it NEEDS a Keyboard to even enter the BIOS.."
SO if you have a problem with terminology used, please take it up with him.

I have no problem with what submix8c said. (It would have been helpful if you had provided a link back to the post so that I could have read his complete response in context, it's here by the way.) You have to also look at one of his previous posts to get the full context:

Two $5 doorstops made just last weekend. Dell's - the first doorstop due to the Dell BIOS Update run on the OEM XP (not Safe Mode). Both E521's - original and Backup Mobo - Clear CMOS Jumper does just that all right - resets the whole shebang to Disabled so no USB Keyboard to even Reset Defaults. Have yet to attempt an Add-In PCI PS/2 Card (to be found/purchased).

The way I understood that was the first one "bricked" due to a failed BIOS update, and the second one got screwed up when he cleared CMOS, that's a very different thing. In the second case, thanks to an idiotic melding of BIOS software and motherboard hardware by Dell, clearing the CMOS disabled his USB keyboard and the motherboard does not have a PS2 socket for him to plug in a PS2 keyboard, so the BIOS and motherboard might still "work", but he has no way to access it, not even to edit the BIOS settings to be able to re-enable the USB keyboard, so it's still a doorstop, but might be fixable with the purchase of additional parts, or your suggestion might work if he has a copy of the BIOS code that has the USB keyboard enabled.

I have no problem with submix8c's terminology.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt, 11 June 2013 - 04:18 AM.

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#29
buyerninety

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We are certainly in perfect and calm agreement then.
Unfortunately submix8c's copy of the bios was a backup copy (and if I
understand him, not the full 512Kbyte), -so it is not the more recent
bios that should have the fix for the default option - 'USB keyboard enabled'.
Search finds no-one except submix8c on these Boards owning a E521.
Should I whispher it? even those S-L-I-Cer's don't seem to have a full RECENT 512Kbyte
bios image available either.
Time for bed. Cheers

Edited by buyerninety, 11 June 2013 - 08:10 AM.


#30
jaclaz

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As for buyerninety's "assumption" that jaclaz was proposing JUST a CD-boot WOW just WOW!!! Perhaps they should look at Grub4DOS - never heard of a Bootable Flash Drive (I have a LiveXP one sitting right here)? WOW!!! YES, it would boot to a Floppy image that way as well!

Just for the record, and to clarify, jaclaz never actually proposed a flash drive, he provided two possibilities:
  • using grub4dos to boot a floppy image (without specifying where the grub4dos and the floppy image should reside, it could well be the hard disk - and as well a flash drive, a second hard disk a ZIP or a CF card)
  • using alternatively an El-Torito emulation bootable CD

The whole point is/was that a floppy image loaded by grub4dos or by the BIOS El-torito emulation for the CD is to all effects and "from DOS" a floppy, and suitable to flash a BIOS.

jaclaz

#31
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Made an attempt to do this yesterday. Floppy was readable when I got it, formatted, added the DOS Utility and BIOS file. Rebooted, and floppy has become unreadable, and is totally dead.

Go figure...

Does anyone have the instructions for the method via DOS? I'm willing to try that. It seems this floppy drive *MIGHT* be a disk-eater, though its barely used and didn't scrape the floppy at all.

First thing you need to do is grab the updated BIOS, flash utility etc... if the bios files needs to be extracted, then use a tool like 7zip. If you have trouble, post a link and one of us will do it for you. After that, you need to copy the necessary files to the C:\ drive for easier navigation. After that, run the flash program in dos and follow the instructions. You can load dos up by holding ctrl button on start up. Most of my computers are laptops and I wasn't going to buy a floppy drive for each and everyone of them. These instructions should work for you as well :w00t:

Instruction 1.

Give us a link to your updated bios. Then we will go to step 2. One step at a time before you end up with a doorstop, I'm not joking either. I would hate for you to brick it for not following instructions.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 11 June 2013 - 12:43 PM.

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#32
nostaglic98

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Lucky me, I managed to do it via "CrashFreeBIOS" (Alt+F2). I burnt a copy of the utility to CD with the correct name and did that. It worked, and I now have a shiny Pentium 4 at 2.8GHz sitting in there. Doing a quick test revealed I could set the graphics details on Midtown Madness 2 from Low (with almost zero visibility) to Very High, with other glitz on and a little extra visibility.

The other computer also was built yesterday, and appears to boot. I now need to get a graphics card for it (P5KPL-C motherboard, with PCI-E x16), since it does not have onboard. Unfortunately, I also discovered yesterday whilst doing the processor changeout that the Asus mobo (P4P800MX) doesn't have AGP... Only the artefacts. Whoops! There goes $35. Oh well, I can resell that and my Celeron, Heatsink and anything else on eBay, for a "reasonable" price :sneaky:

With that in mind, can one still get regular PCI Graphics cards today? If so, what should I get and will it have any real performance gain over the integrated stuff I've got at present?

#33
buyerninety

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@nostaglic98 said:
"discovered... ..Asus mobo (P4P800MX) doesn't have AGP... Only the artefacts."
[P4P800MX = Onboard Intel Extreme Graphics VGA AGP, no AGP slot]
+Try ratcheting up the amount of video memory in the bios screens.
Try attaching or directing a fan at or to the large central (Northbridge) heatsink,
see if that decreases the amount of artefacts at all.
Any 'store new stock' PCI card wouldn't have drivers for Win98.. 'store old stock'
might, refer to the OSes mentioned on the box. But why buy new? zillions of PCI
video cards available 2nd hand...
I'm hopeful one of our other posters can direct you to the link to the 'sticky's',
there's one discussing useable video cards for Win98... (I can't see it.),
@submix8c
+For clarity; found online copy manual for E521... turns out its bios screens DON'T have
ANY mention of a setting for 'Disable/Enable USB Keyboard'.. (only USB Legacy setting
is for Bootable Devices...) possibly there may be some such setting there but 'not made
visible to end users'. Regardless, a flash using the keyboardless methods discussed in
previous posts is still worth trying, if a full 512KByte 'recent bios' image can be found.

#34
nostaglic98

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@nostaglic98 said:"discovered... ..Asus mobo (P4P800MX) doesn't have AGP... Only the artefacts."[P4P800MX = Onboard Intel Extreme Graphics VGA AGP, no AGP slot]+Try ratcheting up the amount of video memory in the bios screens. Try attaching or directing a fan at or to the large central (Northbridge) heatsink,see if that decreases the amount of artefacts at all.,


I wasn't talking about artefacts in the video picture! {But I will see what increasing the V-RAM does (I've found many PC's lock it at 4mb, even if I set it to the maximum)} I didn't suggest that I was having trouble with the video (But my mistake for not being clear) - I was stating there are artefacts on the motherboard for an AGP slot, which must've caused my confusion...

Any 'store new stock' PCI card wouldn't have drivers for Win98.. 'store old stock'
might, refer to the OSes mentioned on the box. But why buy new? zillions of PCI
video cards available 2nd hand...


Buying new or on eBay is what I prefer - Doesn't matter, so long as it is a good quality card and works with 9x/2K. Anyone have a "recommended" model?

#35
dencorso

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[...] I was stating there are artefacts on the motherboard for an AGP slot, which must've caused my confusion... [...]


:blink: By "artefacts" you were trying to mean the (solder-filled) soldering holes and markings, like what is inside the red line in the attachement??? :unsure:

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#36
RFMaster

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Buying new or on eBay is what I prefer - Doesn't matter, so long as it is a good quality card and works with 9x/2K. Anyone have a "recommended" model?

This-> http://www.diamondmm...phics-card.html

#37
nostaglic98

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By "artefacts" you were trying to mean the (solder-filled) soldering holes and markings, like what is inside the red line in the attachement???


:yes:

This-> http://www.diamondmm...phics-card.html


Looks good! Have to check it out more in-depth later :thumbup

#38
submix8c

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@buyerninety -Service Manual - System Setup

USB Controller (On default)
Enables or disables the internal USB controller. No Boot enables the controller but disables the ability to boot from a USB device.
NOTE: Operating systems with USB support will recognize USB floppy drives regardless of the No Boot setting.

Rear Dual USB0 (On default)
Enables or disables the indicated group of USB ports on the back of the computer.

Rear Dual USB1 (On default)
Enables or disables the indicated group of USB ports on the back of the computer.

Front USB (On default)
Enables or disables the indicated group of USB ports on the front of the computer.

I think that about covers it... BTW, it's nVidia-based NOT Intel-based. ;) HALTS on no-keyboard - BOOM! Done! OVER! And it's OBVIOUS it will NOT mention "legacy USB" since that is ALL it has - NO PEE-ESS-TWO (duh). Please stop with your informing me/us of things already known by me/us.

edit - and before you prattle about a "bad keyboard", I have TWO of them - BOTH are Original Dell and NO USB PORTS detect them. OK???

Edited by submix8c, 13 June 2013 - 12:00 PM.

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#39
jaclaz

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edit - and before you prattle about a "bad keyboard", I have TWO of them - BOTH are Original Dell and NO USB PORTS detect them. OK???

I would add that a PS/2 IBM model M, which is otherwise a nice thing to have :), won't help :(.
http://www.msfn.org/...ari-xl-feeling/

jaclaz




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