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Issues Installing Windows ME

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19 replies to this topic

#1
Montjuleant

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Hi, I figured I'd throw a question by you guys, as you seem to know a thing or two more about Windows 9x than the average internet user.

After running into some performance issues trying to run an older game, "The Neverhood", I decided I'd re purpose my old Windows XP desktop with a copy of everyone's favorite operating system, Windows ME. So, I put in the disk and started it up, but almost immediately ran into a strange issue: After booting from disk, at the "Microsoft Windows Millennium Startup Menu", where one can choose to start windows setup from CD, or start computer with or without CD support, immediately after I choose "Start Windows Sets the up from CD-ROM", the system shows the information for the CD-ROM driver, then just stops.

It's not frozen at this point, as the terminal cusor is still sitting there, blinking rapidly, but the system is completely unresponsive, and not performing anything after this point. (The CD-ROM drive is clearly not active shortly after reaching this point).

For further clarity, here's the last thing that gets printed to the screen where the system halts:

This driver is provided by Oak Technology, Inc..
0TI-91X ATAPI CD-ROM device driver, Rev D91XV352
(C)Copyright Oak Technology Inc. 1987-1997
 Device Name               : 0EMCD001_

As for the hardware, it's a slightly modified Dell Dimension 4100.

It uses the stock motherboard and processor, a 1 ghz Pentinum 3, and currently has one stick of 128 MBs of Ram. I've got two hard drives hooked up, the primary being a 80 GB, and secondary being a 32 GB. It's also got a somewhat trashed nVidia mx/mx 200 series card, which upon installing a driver for, completely prevents the system from booting, but otherwise works fine as a way of displaying video output without it. More specific information on the system can be found at: ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_dimension_desktops/dimension-4100_Service%20Manual_en-us.pdf

Despite my best efforts, both in trying out different configurations and wearing out google, I'm unable to find a solution to this issue. I've installed Windows 98 successfully on the system before, so I highly doubt it's a matter of a specific piece of hardware not working on the system, and have tried using another CD-ROM drive to run the set-up from, trying out three different disks for the system on each; All stopped at the exact same point. I've also gone and removed every PCI card, but it had no effect on anything.

Does anyone have any other things I could try? I guess my next step would be to try Windows 98 again, but I'd really like to try and get ME on it, if at all possible.
(Also, sorry for the somewhat long post, I wanted to make sure it was as thorough as possible!)

Edited by Montjuleant, 25 June 2013 - 05:58 PM.



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#2
submix8c

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So, it's "hanging" in the Boot Image within the CD? (Never gets past it?)

On a different PC, put the Install CD in and use BBIE (Bart's Boot Image Extractor) to get the Image. Using a Trial of WinImage, create a Floppy from it and try booting from it (just for fun).

You COULD use "any" Win9x EBD (try BootDisksDOTcom) Floppy and just run Setup from that boot.

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#3
Montjuleant

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So, it's "hanging" in the Boot Image within the CD? (Never gets past it?)

On a different PC, put the Install CD in and use BBIE (Bart's Boot Image Extractor) to get the Image. Using a Trial of WinImage, create a Floppy from it and try booting from it (just for fun).

You COULD use "any" Win9x EBD (try BootDisksDOTcom) Floppy and just run Setup from that boot.


I'm not quite sure on the terminology, but I believe it is hanging in the boot image; It hasn't actually gotten into the windows setup yet.

One more thing I forgot to mention, if I choose the "Start computer without CD-ROM support" option, I'm able to get into what I believe is MS-DOS without issue, which leads me to believe it may be something with the CD-ROM driver. I don't have any floppy drives to test out booting from as of right now, but I should be able to get some within a day or two from a friend, I'll give that a shot as soon as I'm able.

Edited by Montjuleant, 25 June 2013 - 08:48 PM.


#4
bphlpt

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Let me get this straight. You boot from the ME install CD, and if you choose the option to "Start computer without CD-ROM support" option, then you are able to get into "MS-DOS"? Which is loaded from where, the CD right? But you chose the "without CD-ROM support" option, so how is that possible? And if that somehow is possible, then that seems to indicate that the CD driver that it is loading is OK, doesn't it? Sorry, it has been a loooong time since I've messed with any form of 9x, so I must be missing something obvious.

Cheers and Regards

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#5
rloew

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Let me get this straight. You boot from the ME install CD, and if you choose the option to "Start computer without CD-ROM support" option, then you are able to get into "MS-DOS"? Which is loaded from where, the CD right? But you chose the "without CD-ROM support" option, so how is that possible? And if that somehow is possible, then that seems to indicate that the CD driver that it is loading is OK, doesn't it? Sorry, it has been a loooong time since I've messed with any form of 9x, so I must be missing something obvious.

Cheers and Regards

The Boot Image on the CD is loaded by the BIOS and accessed in a "Floppy Emulation" Mode. CD-ROM support refers to access to the much larger CD File System that is not supported by the BIOS. The Boot Image has MS-DOS on it, so it can run without CD-ROM support, but you will only see the 1.4MB Boot Image, not the up to 700MB CD-ROM also on the Disk.
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#6
bphlpt

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Thank you.

Cheers and Regards

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#7
M()zart

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One more thing I forgot to mention, if I choose the "Start computer without CD-ROM support" option, I'm able to get into what I believe is MS-DOS without issue, which leads me to believe it may be something with the CD-ROM driver. I don't have any floppy drives to test out booting from as of right now, but I should be able to get some within a day or two from a friend, I'll give that a shot as soon as I'm able.

Then probably you may copy the WinMe setup files to HDD under WinXP, boot in this mode, and navigate and start the setup from the booted DOS.

#8
submix8c

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I think you folks are missing the point.

1 - The OP can't start the Setup Option because it requires the CD-ROM driver to access the CD FileSystem to Install from.
2 - The OP CAN start "Without CD-ROM Support" option and get into the DOS Prompt and ALSO will not have access to the CD-ROM FileSystem.

Either -
1 - The BIOS support/CD-Drive will not read/access the FileSystem (OAKCDROM is the Driver)
2 - The Image is corrupt.

Please bear in mind that NORMALLY (AFAIKR) these Bootable (FULL or OEM and NOT Upgrade) CD's have both ISO and Joliet FileSystems. The Boot Image is EMBEDDED within the CD and not accessible without software to GET the Image.

That's exactly why I suggested what I did "for fun" (as a test). :yes:

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#9
jaclaz

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I think you folks are missing the point.

1 - The OP can't start the Setup Option because it requires the CD-ROM driver to access the CD FileSystem to Install from.
2 - The OP CAN start "Without CD-ROM Support" option and get into the DOS Prompt and ALSO will not have access to the CD-ROM FileSystem.

Either -
1 - The BIOS support/CD-Drive will not read/access the FileSystem (OAKCDROM is the Driver)
2 - The Image is corrupt.

Please bear in mind that NORMALLY (AFAIKR) these Bootable (FULL or OEM and NOT Upgrade) CD's have both ISO and Joliet FileSystems. The Boot Image is EMBEDDED within the CD and not accessible without software to GET the Image.

That's exactly why I suggested what I did "for fun" (as a test). :yes:

It seems to me like you are also missing some point.
  • "with CD-ROM" hanging = missing "appropriate" driver for the CD-ROM drive or hardware issue with the actual CD drive (if the disk is not read properly one would more likely have the CD-ROM continuously turn at a zillion RPM's or spinning up and down like mad, etc.).
  • "without CD-ROM" doesn't access the CD-ROM (hardly a surprise).

There is no need (JFYI) to have BBIE today, simply open the .iso in 7-zip and you can extract the El-Torito Floppy Emulation image from the [BOOT] (virtual) directory allright.

There is a possibility (not so remote) that if it is (as it should be) a IDE CD-ROM there is something involved with Slave/Master/Cable detect AND the presence of two hard disk *somehow* involved in the issue.

The most logical next step (to troubleshoot the issue) would be IMHO to remove the second hard disk (disconnect it) and verify cables and jumper settings on CD-ROM and remaining hard disk drive.
If the scope is just to install the Me to the PC, the most logical step would be to boot *any* minimal Linux distro (if it boots) from CD and then copu the CD contents on the hard disk, finally install form the files on hard disk.

jaclaz

#10
submix8c

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Still, the Driver "hanging" is the problem. At Bootdisks there are variety of images with "different" CD-ROM drivers (that is APPARENTLY the problem).

Either the Driver isn't appropriate for that PARTICULAR drive (yes, sometimes OAKCDROM does NOT work) or that portion of the CD is "corrupt" and hangs. Remember, the OP stated NO CD-Drive Activity light when "Setup" was selected (after hang).

7Zip doesn't open a REAL CD mounted in the REAL CD-ROM and reveal the [BOOT] folder/image. Only an ISO image (tested that and ALMOST stated what you did). The OP has no need to "suck" the ISO Image just to use 7-Zip to get the Boot Image, hence the suggestion use BBIE -OR- get "any" BootDisk Image -AND- put it ONTO a Floppy and TEST ACCESS to said PHYSICAL CD.

Thus confirming the Driver (your first point) issue vs Corrupted BootImage (but HOW?), or even DIRTY CD Disk. And if it DOES "see" it using a Real Floppy (if available, OP hasn't confirmed that) then just do it from there!

My first post was "the point of the test and circumvention" (providing a Floppy Drive and Floppy availability). Not trying to "confuse" anything, just suggesting (simplistically, no further explanation) a potential work-around. Yes, I have encountered a few "oddball" CD-ROM drives that "just don't work" with the "standard" OakCDOM Driver. This could be one of them and it would be real nice if we KNEW what Make/Model -AND- whether a Floppy Drive exists, otherwise this goes Topic nowhere. We have thus far

As for the hardware, it's a slightly modified Dell Dimension 4100.

It uses the stock motherboard and processor, a 1 ghz Pentinum 3, and currently has one stick of 128 MBs of Ram. I've got two hard drives hooked up, the primary being a 80 GB, and secondary being a 32 GB. It's also got a somewhat trashed nVidia mx/mx 200 series card, which upon installing a driver for, completely prevents the system from booting

"slightly"... ;)

Floppy Drive Included? http://gdgt.com/dell...ion/4100/specs/
The "box" pic - http://pc.watch.impr...731/npdell0.jpg

Edited by submix8c, 26 June 2013 - 09:32 AM.

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#11
jaclaz

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7Zip doesn't open a REAL CD mounted in the REAL CD-ROM and reveal the [BOOT] folder/image. Only an ISO image (tested that and ALMOST stated what you did). The OP has no need to "suck" the ISO Image just to use 7-Zip to get the Boot Image, hence the suggestion use BBIE -OR- get "any" BootDisk Image -AND- put it ONTO a Floppy and TEST ACCESS to said PHYSICAL CD.

Yes :), you need to make an image of the CD for 7zip to work, but making such an image is anyway advised as it would "rule out" dirty or scratched CD.
As well, attempting the install from the image in a simple VM (like Qemu+Qemu Manager) would definitely "rule out" each and every possible cause connected to the actual media.

OT but not much, I have seen more than one "modern" DVD drives that manage to read ONLY either a DVD or a CD (but not both) because one of the two lasers are defective.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 26 June 2013 - 09:50 AM.


#12
submix8c

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Agreed!

@the OP - FWIW, you can see the "original configuration" by entering the Service Tag # (on back of tower) here -
http://www.dell.com/...n 4100&scat=sup
"IF" the CD-ROM wasn't changed you MIGHT be able to see what Model it is (if all else fails if you DON'T want to "crack the case" open).

First thing's first, though. You need to CONFIRM you CD-Disk is "ok" -AND- that (if floppy is there -AND- set to boot to it FIRST) an "alternative" floppy (e.g. an EBD) is available. BTW, the WinME Images at BootDisk is NEARLY identical to the CD-BootImage, except for the "JO.SYS" being on the CD-Rom one (allowing for the further options). :yes:
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm
http://www.nu2.nu/bbie/
Explaining JO.SYS (and an "alternative" one)
http://www.nu2.nu/jo/
(Hopefully) another explanation - http://www.msfn.org/...ctor-is-better/

Confirming you CD-disk is "good" is still a good suggestion... Can be done on your XP system easily with the right tools.
http://alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm
http://cdburnerxp.se.../data/createiso
http://www.imgburn.com/
7-zip - http:///www.7-zip.org
Mounting the ISO Image (IMDISK) - http://www.ltr-data.se/opencode.html/
All of the above are free.
Shall we play with confirmations?

Slightly OT - Google
"windows millenium" site:tacktech.com
Wiki - https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Windows_ME

Edited by submix8c, 26 June 2013 - 10:39 AM.

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#13
jaclaz

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Shall we play with confirmations?

Sure :), let's start.
I confirm ;) that the programs you listed are well suited to make an image of a CD, BUT :w00t: each of them does other things, IMDISK is a driver, IMGBURN, cdburnerxp, and IsoRecorder are "full" burning solutions (and are "installed", add right click associations, etc.), something that may be somehow an issue.

Any of these would IMHO be better suited (in the sense that they are simpler, portable solutions that only do what they are supposed to do):
http://www.dubaron.com/cd2iso/
http://www.softpedia...ls/CD2ISO.shtml

http://sourceforge.n...rojects/cd2iso/

jaclaz

#14
LoneCrusader

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If the scope is just to install the Me to the PC, the most logical step would be to boot *any* minimal Linux distro (if it boots) from CD and then copu the CD contents on the hard disk, finally install form the files on hard disk.

jaclaz

If a Linux or other "live CD" is used to boot the machine and load a "live OS," which holds the CD drive in use to run, then how is the OP supposed to insert the ME CDROM at this point and copy to the HDD? (Unless there are 2 CDROM drives...) :angel :whistle:

Edited by LoneCrusader, 26 June 2013 - 11:23 AM.


#15
submix8c

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Ow, Come on!

IMGBURN can be used Standalone. (Google) to "extract".
http://www.microsoft...s.aspx?id=38780 is also Standalone to mount the Image.

Bear in mind, please, that the OP has stated

I decided I'd re purpose my old Windows XP desktop with a copy of everyone's favorite operating system, Windows ME.

No need to "install" but they are such SMALL apps, so what?

The Linux will have to be mounted In RAM to allow for "eject", another subject. And what about that RAM installed.

currently has one stick of 128 MBs of Ram

Would need a MDS LiveLinux to get into RAM (also another subject). Hey, make a MDS WinBuilder LiveXP InRam (same difference - mine pegs out with "basic useful stuff" needing 512mb.)

The simplest solution is to first TEST for CD-Access via Boot Floppy (see Dell links provided). It APPEARS that that model has what's needed AND that it MAY have come "supplied" with said Video (add-in). It APPEARS also to have a ZIP-drive.

The "shall we play" comment was directed at the OP, btw, and NOT as a snark. Two posts, insufficient information. and have all they need for tools to "test" and properly respond. :yes: Our "job" is currently at a standstill until then.

Thx for the CD2ISO suggestion/link.

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#16
dencorso

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Our "job" is currently at a standstill until then.

Right! Too many questions... too little answers. :wacko:
I join submix86 at suggesting you all should wait for Montjuleant to reply to the many already posed questions before proceeding... :yes:

#17
Montjuleant

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Hi, thanks everyone for the swift and detailed replies, and I apologize for not being able to respond until now!

As I'm not going to be able to be in possession of any floppy disks until tommorrow, (I should have mentioned, I -DO- have a floppy disk drive on the system), I decided to try and extract the install disk's contents onto my 2nd hard drive from within windows, then boot into the MS-DOS boot image, and run the set-up off of that. This was successful, but shortly into the install I was kicked out due to my primary drive being formatted in NTFS, (It still had Windows XP on it at this point). I rebooted into MS-DOS, and ran FDISK to format the drive, and restarted.

After restarting and choosing to boot from CD, however, on the "Start Setup from CD", "Start Windows With CD-ROM Support", etc, screen, my attention was diverted elsewhere for a short moment, and I neglected to choose to start without CD-ROM support before the timer counted down, and it tried to start the setup from CD again... and this time, it worked!?

I may be speaking a bit too soon, as I'm only formatting the drive in the Windows ME setup, and have not yet fully installed it, but it seems to be working now, despite me changing almost nothing on the system.

The only things I did change between this attempt at installing, and my previous one earlier this morning, was I had two drives formatted with NTFS, which are now FAT32, and I swapped out my dying AGP nVidia graphics card for an ancient PCI "Trident TGUI 9680" I found in an older system, and swapped from using AGP to PCI for my video output in my BIOS. Could this have had an effect?

Also, sorry for a lack of information on the system. I was unable to get any information from the Dell link submix8c posted regarding my system configuration, and at this point I don't really want to try and remove my CD drive, but one of the two CD Drives I tried the disk on, (Which I did a very poor job of mentioning in the OP post) was a Mitsumi, Model No. CRMC-FX810T4.

#18
submix8c

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Yes, the Mitsumi MAY have caused it.
http://www.computerhope.com/cdromd.htm
XP Install is perfectly happy with nearly ANY drive.
ALSO if you have TWO CD-ROM drives, that COULD get you into trouble. Post #31 -
http://www.msfn.org/...ms/page__st__30
XP Install is perfectly happy with MULTIPLE drives.

Your post is STILL confusing

As I'm not going to be able to be in possession of any floppy disks until tomorrow
<snip>
I decided to try and extract the install disk's contents onto my 2nd hard drive from within windows, then boot into the MS-DOS boot image

So, was that a REAL CD or an ISO image? You used the tools suggested? How did you "boot" from the Image?

information from the Dell

?The Service Tag ALWAYS gives that info, even on an OLDER one (eg Dell 4600 which brother has). It will be located on a Sticker on the back OR will display in the BIOS.

swapped out my dying AGP

This would have been irrelevant to the problem since you WERE initially getting a screen, but OK, for the best (if you say so).

but one of the two CD Drives I tried the disk on

So you DO have two CD-ROM drives in it now?

Please explain or OTHER members (or internet search) will find VERY vague information about the "solution". Not cool! :no:

side note - betting it INITIALLY had WinME (from factory) on it anyway (pre-XP/post-98). Only up-to-Win2k for drivers are listed (which usually work w/XP), including WinME. The Trident MAY give problems with WinME (driver availability) :unsure: .

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#19
jaclaz

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If a Linux or other "live CD" is used to boot the machine and load a "live OS," which holds the CD drive in use to run, then how is the OP supposed to insert the ME CDROM at this point and copy to the HDD? (Unless there are 2 CDROM drives...) :angel :whistle:

Most "live" Linux CD's (not all of them, only the "good" ones ;)) are loaded ENTIRELY in Ram and allow to eject the CD once they have booted.
JFYI also any BartPE or similar using one of the available RAMDISK options will behave like that.

Example:
http://puppylinux.or...a/howPuppyWorks

A fundamental objective of Puppy is that everything should load into ramdisk, thus freeing up the CD drive so that you can use the CD drive for other purposes


@submix8c
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

Run fully in RAM with as little as 128MB (you will be amazed at how fast your computer can be!)


Hey, make a MDS WinBuilder LiveXP InRam (same difference - mine pegs out with "basic useful stuff" needing 512mb.)

Maybe it already exists. :unsure:
http://reboot.pro/topic/15252-picoxp/

Maybe you can make a "real" XP in 40 or 20 Mb or less:
http://reboot.pro/to...fs-below-10-mb/
http://minixp.reboot...iles/index.html
http://reboot.pro/topic/16765-minixp/

jaclaz

P.S.: Almost forgot :w00t: :
:angel :whistle: AND:
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Edited by jaclaz, 27 June 2013 - 10:20 AM.


#20
submix8c

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(Heh...) Never said they don't exist. DSL/MDS-XP in both cases.

Still, the OP states they are "well on the way" without any explanations of hardware/procedures.

For anyone finding this thread, hope it helps even without this particular specifics.

(nice GIF... insert after second paragraph above)
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more here -
http://www.msfn.org/...and-signatures/

Edited by submix8c, 27 June 2013 - 10:50 AM.

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