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Hard disks drop out randomly, can't be accessed.

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#26
Phaenius

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ROTS, I said above, hard disks are always on, they do not sleep. Not even the SSD. When blackouts appear, hard disks do not disappear, icons are there (my computer, tray, Total Commander, etc.) It's just they don't respond. No error returned. At the end of the blackout they resume activity at current time like nothing happened. For instance, if I am listening a file in Winamp, music stops when buffer empties, then when blackout ends, it resumes like usual. There is no "can't read disk" error or anything. From OS point of view, everything is ok, that's why i am reluctant it will appear in the logs.

 

Allen2, that's the issue, from Windows point of view, drives ARE responding. It's just it takes insanely ammounts of time.




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#27
jaclaz

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... that's why i am reluctant it will appear in the logs.

 

Well, no. :no:

 

We have some experience on this too: you are reluctant by definition :w00t:, in order to have you perform even the easiest thing and report it takes ages (and several posts) until you are (possibly) convinced that doing it is may be useful.

 

On each and every suggestion that was ever provided to you on this board you historically had some exception to raise, some generic whining about the complexity of doing it and some attempts to do another thing instead (because this other thing appeared to you better).

 

There is no point in being reluctant about anything appearing in the logs, it is simple, just §@ç#ing look into them and see if there is anything or not.

 

Since by now two days have passed since you were asked to check the logs and told how to do that in extreme detail,it must be not that frequent an issue.

 

 

Or maybe since till now only the usual "oh my, it is so difficult" AND the "I don't think it will be useful" have been duly expressed and recorded, what is missing is the "what if, instead of checking the events logs, I would run xy?" step.

 

How about making some proposal, so that I will be able to explain you how that idea (though respectable) is not something I consider useful and can shout at you "just check the §@ç#ing events logs and report"? :whistle:

 

jaclaz



#28
Phaenius

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I don't know why all of you are so mean. It didn't happened since yesterday. I can't force those things. They happen on their own.

 

I am no reluctant by definition. I followed the advice with the cleaning spray, with the testing of sound card, I spent like 6 euros on it and it did nothing (like I suspected). I followed the advice in unbricking the hard disks, it worked, I don't follow you. I am filtering the advices I get and follow the intelligent and plausible ones, dropping the others. I AM waiting for a blackout to happen.



#29
jaclaz

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I don't know why all of you are so mean. It didn't happened since yesterday. I can't force those things. They happen on their own.

Yep :), thats the idea of intermittent problems (which are the most difficult to catch).
But we are not at all "mean" (or at least "meaner" than usual), really it does seem that every time any of us (BTW in attempting to help you with a problem you had actually asked help about) tries giving you a suggestion (rest assured in perfect good-faith) it becomes a several posts confrontation.

I am not saying that we should be trusted on our word, but - as long as the suggestion does not involve a dangerous action, something illegal, or something very costly, you could try accepting it at it's face value.
 

I am no reluctant by definition. I followed the advice with the cleaning spray, with the testing of sound card, I spent like 6 euros on it and it did nothing (like I suspected). I followed the advice in unbricking the hard disks, it worked, I don't follow you. I am filtering the advices I get and follow the intelligent and plausible ones, dropping the others. I AM waiting for a blackout to happen.




Quite frankly, whining about the Euro 6,00 that you spent in order to follow one of my suggestions (BTW to buy a "general use" kind of product that is useful in any household, besides specifically in the one of an electric/electronic/audio enthusiast AND that you used successfully on your hard disk) is humiliating :(.

BTW this was announced:
http://www.msfn.org/...-8#entry1027827
roughly one month after it was suggested:
http://www.msfn.org/...hdds/?p=1025495


Besides the generic whining attitude, the reluctance or resistance (and what not) you might want to appreciate how your plan of "filtering the advices I get and follow the intelligent and plausible ones, dropping the others" completely failed. :whistle:

I nonetheless managed to trick you into spending Euro 6.00 for a product and perform a series of action that led NOT to a solution by cleverly bypassing your "filters" alright :).

 

In the occasion I also failed :w00t:, as my original evil plan was to make you spend some Euro 22.00 (+P&H)  in a complete set of three products.

 

On the other hand, you used just one product instead of three, and maybe that means that you didn't followed my suggestion but a free re-interpretation of it, this may not be enough to prove that the original suggestion was wrong (and anyway it worked for the hard disk).

 

Mind you, it's OK, and the general chitchat during the wait in the process (suggest, find resistance, workaround reluctance, convince, have the test performed) has been great fun.

 

jaclaz



#30
Phaenius

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OK, another mean and mocking post... I don't think I deserve this. I will wait for a blackout to appear and look for the logs and interpret them as much as I can. Meanwhile, you can throw stones, bully, whatever, I don't care. I only know I came here in good faith and didn't want to fight anyone. And that's enough for me.

 

Btw, not the issue, but 6 euros might mean pocket change for you, but situation isn't the same all over the world (not even in Europe). I wouldn't mind if it had some chance in succeeding, but I knew the chances of doing anything good were close (and I mean VERY close) to zero. Still, I pleased you all and bought the cleaning spray. Apart from stinking the room (they could have put some flowers scent in it **** it), it did nothing. As expected.


Edited by Phaenius, 08 August 2013 - 08:34 AM.


#31
submix8c

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Apologies for the borked link. I, too, get busy and hadn't been back to notice. Thank jaclaz for catching it.

 

You realize the logs remain until deleted? If you haven't deleted them -OR- you have -AND- saved them, then surely you have some inkling of "roughly" when the (multiple) occurrences (ahem...) occurred. Absolutely NADA is in "there"? The (borked) link I gave indicates which area(s) MIGHT show you something (if anything). You've not mentioned if you even seen anything "fishy". I find that rather hard to believe.


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#32
jaclaz

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Apart from stinking the room (they could have put some flowers scent in it **** it), it did nothing. As expected.

You may want to sue me for having contributed to polluting the air in your room and - though in very limited amount - contributed to the planet's increase in temperature, enlarging of the ozone hole and possibly having made a couple of passing by flies in the room sterile (this due to the know exponential trend in flies reproduction may have seriously altered the numbers in flies population in Romania and - by extension - possibly in Bulgaria and Hungary). :ph34r:

 

I assure you that the advice was given with the best of intentions :yes: and I sincerely regret to have induced you into doing something you were not fully convinced of :(, however, the fact that instead of thanking me (and other board members) for having at least tried to help you (independently from the results) you insist on whining about this episode may allow me to sue you for moral damages. :w00t:

 

Right now I feel belittled and denigrated and seeing my good-willing efforts being so harshly misrepresented makes me sad :(, very sad.

 

 

jaclaz



#33
puntoMX

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I wonder if it's even harddisk drive (or SSD) related at all and the OP has choose a poorly title for his topic.

 

How about a complete hardware list up-first. Something isn't 100% compatible in the hardware setup and I'm 99% sure it has nothing to do with the HDDs, from experience. You could disable ACHI on the ODD (I would, no use for it, could give trouble).

 

I would think it's some interrupt misplaced from something on the PCI-E bus... 



#34
Phaenius

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I can't disable AHCI. I tried, but it won't boot. On PCI BUS only a Creative X-Fi sound card.



#35
puntoMX

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Give us your complete list of your components please.

 

ODD drives sometimes don't like ACHI, this is why I said it. Sometimes you can disable ACHI on ports 5 and 6 or set the ODD on another controller.



#36
Tripredacus

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Alternatively, he could test for a while with the ODD not connected. But he is correct if you disable AHCI in the BIOS, Windows will give a 0x7B bugcheck. I have not seen a board that allows you to select the SATA type per port on the motherboard. Usually it applies that setting for every port.


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#37
submix8c

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?

OK, that confused me. On (many/most?) OEM ("older?") MoBo's, you get an option to either have SATA IDE-Mode or SATA-RAID(limited types) and in SATA-RAID there is NO "AHCI" (in these types of "older?" MoBo's?).

 

So, the part that confuses me is the implication that Disabling AHCI does NOT give IDE(PATA)-Mode? I was under the impression that Chaging from AHCI(SATA)->IDE(PATA) simply allows the OS to "load" the PATA "drivers" instead. Or is that only valid if you START with PATA-Mode, install SATA Drivers, then switch to SATA-Mode?

 

(apologies for seemingly OT interjection...)


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#38
Tripredacus

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No I am saying that if he has a SATA HDD and ODD, you can't specify use AHCI on port 0 (for HDD) and IDE for port 1 (ODD).


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#39
puntoMX

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?

OK, that confused me. On (many/most?) OEM ("older?") MoBo's, you get an option to either have SATA IDE-Mode or SATA-RAID(limited types) and in SATA-RAID there is NO "AHCI" (in these types of "older?" MoBo's?).

Older chipsets don't support ACHI indeed, like the Intel ICH7 and older and chipsets before AMD SB700 (let's forget nVidia and VIA here). It is posible to re-enable the windows "IDE mode" drivers again in the REG. When windows is installed with ACHI enabled, it will disable the "IDE mode" drivers with a flag in the REG but the drivers are there.

 

Tripredacus, on 09 Aug 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:
No I am saying that if he has a SATA HDD and ODD, you can't specify use AHCI on port 0 (for HDD) and IDE for port 1 (ODD).

 

Yes you are right, I wasn't clear about that; only when there is a second controller you can do that (common on most higher-end mobos).



#40
submix8c

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AH! Thank you! Then the "reverse" of this? - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922976

Err confusing (see this) - http://www.tomshardw...-format-install


Edited by submix8c, 09 August 2013 - 09:54 AM.

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#41
jaclaz

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@submix8c

It's not confusing (if you approach it the right way).

A "normal" motherboard with a "single" SATA controller has normally a setting in BIOS to choose "SATA" (or "AHCI") and "Legacy IDE" mode.

The effect of this is that the controller (usually) changes it's ID.

I.E. the same controller has an "IDE ID" and a "SATA ID".

When you install windows it will install the driver for the ID that it senses at the time of install.

But it is possible to "switch later", as long as you know what to change in the Registry and install the driver for the "other ID".

See here:

http://www.msfn.org/...-24#entry884409

http://forums.pcper....talling-Windows

http://reboot.pro/in...showtopic=11729

 

jaclaz



#42
Phaenius

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OK, I will give the list of components in a jiffy. I was away today and didn't read the comments. And no, no blackouts since... But rest assured, when it happens, I am prepared.



#43
Phaenius

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So, here it is:

 

Motherboard

 

MSI 970A-G46 http://www.msi.com/p...b/970A-G46.html

 

CPU

 

AMD FX 6300 http://cpuboss.com/cpu/AMD-FX-6300

 

RAM

 

2 X 4 GB Kingston HyperX KHX1600C9D3/4GX http://www.legitrevi...article/1831/4/

 

Graphic card

 

Spphire HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 PCI-E http://www.sapphiret...1&pid=174&lid=1

 

Sound card

 

Creative Sound Blaster X-FI Platinum FATAL1TY Champion Series http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/B000QYBICE

 

PSU

 

Corsair CMPSU-430CXV2, 430W, ATX2.2 http://www.corsair.c...wer-supply.html

 

Storage

 

Kingston SV300S37A/120G http://www.kingston..../ssd/v/#sv300s3

Seagate Barracuda ST3500320AS http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B000026D8E

Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822148840

2 X Seagate Barracuda ST3640323AS http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822148335

(Samsung) TSSTCorp CDDVDW SH-222BB http://www.samsung.c...w/SH-222BB/RSBS

 

OS

 

Windows 7 x64 Ultimate

 

Rest of components I think are unimportant (keyboard, mouse, router, etc.)

 

Edit: OS is installed on SSD Drive. I activated AHCI before I installed Windows.

 

What is ODD ?


Edited by Phaenius, 09 August 2013 - 12:22 PM.


#44
puntoMX

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ODD is Optical Disc Drive: (Samsung) TSSTCorp CDDVDW SH-222BB, but that one has no problems with ACHI.



#45
Phaenius

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OK, thanks for clearing this up.



#46
allen2

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Do you overclock either the cpu or the radeon ?
That psu could be the root cause as it deliver just enough power for a standard use (i used this psu calculator) and perhaps it now can't deliver enough power for all your components. It could have been damaged or is just too old. To avoid those kind of problems, i usually choose a psu that can deliver at least 20% more.


Edited by allen2, 10 August 2013 - 01:26 AM.


#47
Phaenius

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No overclock, everything's stock. Only memory sticks have been put to their XMS values. I know those settings are for Intel proccessors, but it works. Default, BIOS sets memory to much lower specs (the default SPD I believe).

 

PSU is one year old, definitely  not old and its' 430 W should be more than enough (28A on 12V rail, 20A on 5V and 3.3 rails).

 

Your calculator reccomended 460 W PSU, but I have a wattmetter and it says 170 W power consumption. So, it's ok.


Edited by Phaenius, 10 August 2013 - 02:14 AM.


#48
allen2

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The wattmetter report the psu consumption (not what the components ask to the psu on each power rail) and might miss the peaks of power.

If you want to be sure, you could run a benchmark or anything cpu and gpu intensive and monitor how the wattmetter react.



#49
Phaenius

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I did that, 315 watts on my wattmater. Of course, average, since I can't see the peaks without an osciloscope (which I don't have). But I fear it could be the soldering on the HDD power wires to the PSU board, after seing (and reading) this review http://www.jonnyguru...=Story&reid=239

 

Problems is I have to have a certain degree of reasons to replace an otherwise working PSU. Those things don't come cheap.

 

I have a multimeter, I could attach it to a free connector and see if power drops on one of those blackouts. Annoying thing is that non a single one last days. Previously they appeared like 2-3 per hour. Maybe the heat could have dilated the metal and now make better contact ?


Edited by Phaenius, 10 August 2013 - 03:12 AM.


#50
CharlotteTheHarlot

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No overclock, everything's stock. Only memory sticks have been put to their XMS values. I know those settings are for Intel proccessors, but it works. Default, BIOS sets memory to much lower specs (the default SPD I believe).

 

PSU is one year old, definitely  not old and its' 430 W should be more than enough (28A on 12V rail, 20A on 5V and 3.3 rails).

 

Your calculator reccomended 460 W PSU, but I have a wattmetter and it says 170 W power consumption. So, it's ok.

 

An "old" PSU is not necessarily a bad thing and the inverse is also true - a new PSU can definitely be bad.

 

Better to simply drop in another equivalent or better power supply and see if the problem still exists identically, then you can rule out the PSU completely. If it still exists you don't lose anything from the experiment, you merely gain an extra PSU for future use. However if the problem vanishes, you solved it all cheaply, in one shot without tampering with the myriad Windows settings. In this case ( PSU not a problem ) the next step for me would be to reflash the motherboard BIOS to rule out corrupt BIOS code and flaky CMOS parameters. I like to rule out hardware problems before messing with Windows.

 

If these all fail to clear the problem the next thing I would do is try using this HDD in another computer as a slave drive and look for drop-out errors. Copy some really big files to and from the slave. If it works flawlessly then you are closing in on some likely corrupt Windows setting in the hardware tree in the registry ( of the original HDD of the original computer ).

 

In that final case, I would then clone this flaky HDD bitwise in another computer to a new HDD ( to be able to safely work from a backup copy ) and then try a Windows repair install to the clone ( or the original ) while installed in the original problem system. If that doesn't do it, try a completely fresh install with format. All these extra steps ( cloning ) are for data loss avoidance obviously. It's what I would do, but others might not care to do the extra work.


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