The Case of the Disappearing DVD Recorder

[Monroe]

Came across this article yesterday as I was searching around for a spare DVD Recorder to have on hand if my current one fails anytime soon. I bought one from Walmart exactly 2 years ago this month and at that time there were several models to choose from ... after reading the article I went to Walmart to see if any were there ... only one model that I didn't like. Amazon has some for sale but not the selection I think they once had from two years back, when I was shopping around for one. I had no idea they might be on the scarce list here in the US. Just a heads up but they must still be plentiful in the rest of the world.

The Case of the Disappearing DVD Recorder

Why DVD Recorders are Getting So Hard to Find

By Robert Silva

http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdbasics/qt/the_case_of_the_disappearing_dvd_recorder.htm

Have you shopped for a DVD Recorder recently and have found slim-pickins on store shelves? It is not your imagination. While DVD recorders are thriving in other parts of the World and Blu-ray Disc recorders are all the rage in Japan, and are being introduced in several other markets, the U.S. is being left out of the video recording equation; on purpose.

However, contrary to what you might think, it is not all the fault of Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba and other Asian-based consumer electronics manufacturers. After all, they would love to sell as many DVD and Blu-ray Disc recorders as possible to anyone who wants to buy one.

The real reason that DVD recorders are scarce in the U.S., and Blu-ray Disc recorders are non-existent, can be squarely laid at the foot of the U.S. movie studios and cable/satellite providers, which place restrictions on video recording that make the continued selling new DVD recorders, let alone providing access to standalone Blu-ray Disc recorders, in the U.S. consumer market an increasingly unprofitable venture.

Copy-Protection and Recording Cable/Satellite Programming

Most consumers buy a DVD recorder to record television programs for later viewing. So how are movie studios and cable/satellite program providers conspiring to limit your access to such video recording? The implementation of a copy-protection scheme that severely restricts what you can record and how you can record it.

For example, HBO and some other cable and network programmers copy-protect most of their programs on a random basis. The type of copy protection that they use (referred to as "Record Once") allows an initial recording to a temporary storage device (such as to a hard drive of a DVD recorder/Hard Drive combo, a cable DVR, TIVO, but not necessarily to a permanent storage format, such as DVD). In addition, once you have made your recording to cable DVR, TIVO, or Hard Drive, you are not allowed to make a copy of the initial recording to a DVD or VHS.

In other words, while you can make a recording to temporary storage format, such as DVR-type device, you cannot make a "hard copy" onto DVD to add to your permanent collection. "Record Once" means recording once on a temporary storage medium, not to a hard copy, such as DVD.

As a result, consumers are finding out quickly that newer DVD recorders and DVD Recorder/VHS combo units are unable record programs from HBO or other premium channels, and definitely not Pay-Per-View or On-Demand programming ("Record Never"), due to the types of copy-protection employed to restrict recording onto DVD. This is also filtering into some of the non-premium cable channels.

.... article is long so the link is above.

Edited August 14, 2013 by duffy98

[jaclaz]

The type of copy protection that they use (referred to as "Record Once") allows an initial recording to a temporary storage device (such as to a hard drive of a DVD recorder/Hard Drive combo, a cable DVR, TIVO, but not necessarily to a permanent storage format, such as DVD).

Sure .

Google for "record once".

You will see - by the lack of any meaningful results - how any info on this widely used technology is hushed up .

The "copy once" is actually re-known:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information

and the single allowed copy would normally go on a DVR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorder

And of course there is no technology available to duplicate such a recording and/or re-record the output stream of a playing video and/or to connect the video entertainment system to a PC.

And in very few households a PC equipped with a DVD recorder is available.

And noone, with the exception of a very restricted number of highly educated and specialized technicians can - when free from their daily routine dedicated to rocket science and brain surgery - actually operate those high tech, I would say futuristic, devices.

Let's see if we can make some rough calculations.

Cost of a "TV box DVD recorder" (where available) US$ 150-200

Cost of a recordable DVD (media) US$ 0.80/4.7 Gb=US$ 0.17/Gb

TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) of a video library consisting of 200 movies = 150+200*0.8=310 US$ -> 310/200=US$ 1.55/movie

Cost of hard disk storage (typical USB hard disk) :

1 Tb US$ 80.00/1,000 Gb=US$ 0.08/Gb -> TCO of a library of 250 movies=US$ 80.00 -> US$ 0.53/movie

2 Tb US$ 120.00/2,000 Gb= US$ 0.06/Gb -> TCO of a library of 500 movies=US$ 120.00-> US$ 0.24/movie

Hassle level with DVD's (changing them, make a coaster from time to time, noise when fast forwarding, space to store them, time to find the actual DVD you want to watch, etc.): very high

Hassle level with hard disk video recording: very low.

DVD: Possibility of bringing with you on holidays or to a friend's, or however "on the move" your WHOLE movie library: NONE

HD: Possibility of bringing with you on holidays or to a friend's, or however "on the move" your WHOLE movie library: VERY EASY.

I would dare to make the hypothesis that the market for something that has a TCO that is at the very least three times that of another suitable alternative, which additionally offers much more comfort/features/portability (and what not) may be restricted by different reasons than the conspiracy of the majors.

jaclaz

[Kelsenellenelvian]

I myself have a tv card in my pc and it is slaved to my satellite box.

That way I can capture the show onto my pc for later personal viewing at my leisure.

[Monroe]

jaclaz ... well I also did some additional searching concerning DVD Recorders and these "codes" and then read what you posted. I was totally unaware of all these developments since I bought my last DVD Recorder two years ago ... should have bought a spare one then, not really sure if the newer DVD Recorders would still work the same as my 2011 model. It currently seems to be able to record everything that I might want to record.

From the above article ... at this time I still prefer DVDs but am checking out some DVD Recorders that burn DVDs and also have a hard drive ... but will it work like my older DVD Recorder?

"As a result, consumers are finding out quickly that newer DVD recorders and DVD Recorder/VHS combo units are unable record programs from HBO or other premium channels, and definitely not Pay-Per-View or On-Demand programming ("Record Never"), due to the types of copy-protection employed to restrict recording onto DVD. This is also filtering into some of the non-premium cable channels."

... if anyone has recently bought a DVD Recorder and still able to record what they want ... I'd be interested in knowing what brand / model you bought.

...

Edited August 15, 2013 by duffy98

[jaclaz]

Naah, check the date of the FCC agreement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control_Information

http://w2.eff.org/IP/pnp/FCC_PnP_Ruling.pdf

jaclaz

[ROTS]

DVD recorders are basically non-exsistant because nobody had the money or use to buy the technology. I remember when I was younger, I had already discovered the internet, and as time grew, and grew more people have become ignorant of Video type devices. Basically small children today do not even know what a Blu-ray disc is. They do not even know what a WMV or MP4 is today. All they know is stream stream stream( which is not a reason to have a $100 internet line ). About Japan, they still use VCD on the get go, and people in rural nations like Sticks China are using 1992 technology like if it was brand new. Again with the children, the youth, the poor poor poor babies, and that is just the case. Without anybody having a job, most people are ignorant to even get a cable subscription. Now all of this super cheap understanding power has fallen into the hands of gun weilding morons. That is why DVD recorders are out dated.

Another problem to realize is the USA was and is still in a war, and many DV-Cam Corder devices can connect to computer and give MPEG video used in DVD/VCD. In a nutchell Internet killed the Video star. Wireless users killed the internet. It is kind of depressing when a whole bunch of people who represents your generation is dead, or in the hospital for something that has no logic whatsoever. All of those people who grewed up and lived with Cassette, are the consumers that makes up a whole of Video users. imagine that person who was brainwashed into the idea of "latest = greatest" and are hanging on to life supportgetting less medical attention then a 3rd world native. Back to that DV stuff, it is just more easier to store it as a file instead of depending on a DVD.

It makes you kinda angry right? That we were sappose to buy into DVD when VCD was being used for years in other parts of the world and now it is rampid, it is like we look at the DVD and see a piece of plastic that is going to damage faster then you parents wedding video. I know it boggles the mind, when you have beautiful clear and crisp video but only because it is software based and the hardware is

basically a mini-computer, a person could buy in five seconds. Hard to think how auwsome it looked at that point in time and yet it feels so alien, that it is practically non-exsistant.

Then of course thier is the fact that Disc technology is prone to damage. Most people do not keep Discs in a safe place. When a moron picks up a disc they put they entire thumb on the data region. You might have sweaty palms, or eating junk food. That is just pure slioppiness, the same moron would be defensive on how they keep tjheir discs, by dunking it in water. People are too stupid to take care of records, Cassettes, and Discs. People are so stupid they want everything digital. However even digital does not last forever as most of us has had hard drive crash and burn problems, to accidentially formating a flash.

Those are my thoughts on this subject. If you want such products you will have to go to a garage sale.

[jaclaz]

Something that should be a bit highlighted is the "paradigm shift" between "good enough" and "all or nothing" .

With good ol' analogic TV, if your antenna (or TV set or TV antenna amplifier) sucked big (or you were in a rural area with low signal, etc.) you could watch TV programs through some "snow". ("good enough" or "better than nothing")

Now with digital TV, is *any* component from the very tip of the antenna to the last micrometer of the plasma/LCD/LED screen connector is even slightly defective (or you are still in the same rural area and the signal is still not good) you see NOTHING.

In time of VHS cassettes, you could open the cassette, rewind the tape, cut out the tape that was ruined and rejoin it loosing some 5 seconds of a whole movie, and watch it, admittedly with some flickering or small defects .("good enough" or "better than nothing")

In time of DVD's a single scratch and you can watch NOTHING.

In time of hard disks a single byte goes poof in the firmware of the disk (or a moderate power surge hits the thingy) and you LOSE ALL your video library (and no , don't come telling me that you made a backup of that disk, as I know that it would be a lie )

jaclaz

[Tboneator64]

I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a replacement Toshiba DVD Recorder (My other one quit accepting discs of ANY kind after six years of mostly very heavy usage!) at a local THE SOURCE retail outlet, where it had been placed on Clearance! Unlike my first Recorder, I plan to be more selective with what I record with this one, as I know that I won't be able to replace it later! To be quite honest, I'm more than slightly teed off over the fact that the Blu-Ray Recorders available in other parts of the world are being denied release into the North American market. I understand that our Cable/Satellite Providers; etc want to prevent further piracy, but I also think that some people would also like to have the convenience of transferring their HD Camcorder Videos to Blu-Ray disc without having to invest in a PC/Blu-Ray Writer Setup.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Tboneator64

[Tripredacus]

Home DVD Recorders never had a chance. When they came out, Tivo was already on the scene. Once TV providers started offering DVRs, that took care of all of it.