Boot XP from 32MB ssd and big IDE drive

[jaclaz]

@jaclaz

How to create second partition within HPC 5?

That's create a second partition up to 80 GB at a 32 GB HDD?

I am not sure to understand the situation, I am not familiar with DDO's.

The issue with the size bigger than 32 Gb is with which value?

I mean once the XP has booted (from the partition contained into the first 32 GB) can it access the "\\.\phisicaldrive" beyond the 32 GB?

jaclaz

[cdob]

Todo: fill second partition to the brim, does it boot still?

I mean once the XP has booted (from the partition contained into the first 32 GB) can it access the "\\.\phisicaldrive" beyond the 32 GB?

No, writing beyond the 32 GB fails actually: IO error

Game lost: plain XP without a DDO is not possible.

[jaclaz]

Game lost: plain XP without a DDO is not possible.

But still the IMHO simpler original idea of making use of the DOM and make an "XP Kansas City Shuffle" could work?

Another idea, maybe crazy.

What really happens when the disk bigger than 32 Gb is connected?

Tests:

• install (or however boot from) grub4dos (on the DOM or anyway from "accessible" boot media)
• what does grub4dos "sees" of the second >32 Gb hard disk? (does it sees it, what is the result of the geometry command?)
• is the size of the first partition relevant/changes anything in the way the disk is seen?
• would *somehow* the cdrom manual mapping through cdrom --init change anything? (or would SBM http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/about.html be able to do anything?)

jaclaz

[allen2]

Personnaly i would try the ddo approach, i used one (and had to use one again recently for 3TB drive) without any trouble as it should be the easiest to setup and use the full drive capacity.

But from what i read, sometime not even a ddo can work and you have to manually edit the drive geometry in the bios and set head to 255 (but that was to use only one drive).

[cdob]

install (or however boot from) grub4dos (on the DOM or anyway from "accessible" boot media)

Boot media CD-ROM drive at TX-P4

grldr as no emulation CD: CD not bootable

NT default bootsect.bin edited to load grldr as no emulation CD: CD not bootable

grub4dos 0.4.2 floppy image written as floppy emulation: grldr not found

All three CD does boot at another system.

A Isolinux and a BCDW boot CD does boot.

Chainloading grldr.exe not tested so far.

As for testing:

A 40 GB Maxtor HDD truncated to 32 GB (66055248 sectors).

And a Seagate HDD added too.

Seagate DiskWizard 10 booted.

DiskWizard does handle a non Seagate HDD, as long another Seagate HDD is available at system.

(DiskWizard does refuse a single connected non Seagate HDD.)

The DDO is written to the Maxtor HDD, a 8 GB partition created.

The Seagate HDD disconnected.

XP installed. Textmode offers a 40 GB HDD, installed to previous created 8 GB partition.

The 40 GB is writeable and readable at installed XP.

BartPE booted from CD (no DDO loaded):

HDD is available, offline XP is writable. However first 32 GB is readable and writable only.

[jaclaz]

grldr as no emulation CD: CD not bootable

NT default bootsect.bin edited to load grldr as no emulation CD: CD not bootable

grub4dos 0.4.2 floppy image written as floppy emulation: grldr not found

1. grldr as no emulation CD: CD not bootable <-this sounds "logical"
2. NT default bootsect.bin edited to load grldr as no emulation CD: CD not bootable <-this also sounds "logical"
3. grub4dos 0.4.2 floppy image written as floppy emulation: grldr not found <- this less so

I mean, such "pesky" BIOSes did have issues with no-emulation boot CD's, the "plainer" El-Torito floppy emulation has much more chances to work, what about a "plain" DOS floppy (with added to it grldr)?

If I am to attribute (from common sense and experience) probabilities to the bootability of CD Rom's (on BIOSes with rudimental support for it) I would say:

Floppy emulation <- 98.24%

no-emulation <- 91.42%

hard disk emulation <-68.77%

If you remember the good ol' times, the original NT 4.00 install CD was NOT bootable... and in the "transition" from BIOSes that did not support CD-ROM booting and the ones that boot *any* CD, the use of BCDL was common.

Just to remind how even Qemu did not directly support hard disk emulation:

http://reboot.pro/topic/3890-project-etboot/page-2

http://reboot.pro/topic/3890-project-etboot/?p=29314

(but still what I was suggesting originally to the OP was to try booting from the DOM that is - to all effects - a (very small) internal hard disk)

BTW, it seems that with our talking we must have scared the OP .

jaclaz

[Roman78]

Nono.. im still here. And i'll try something of those. But a.t.m. i had no time to test it. I was buisy to get an old 802.11b card wordking in an Amiga 1200.

But i'll try to get it working this week.

[cdob]

what about a "plain" DOS floppy

What's a floppy?

I'm lazy to dismount the flopy drive from another machine, no spare one available.

Another HDD attached as primary master, the 32 GiB truncated HDD attached as secondary master now.

Grub4dos installed to primary master MBR.

Grub4dos does load:

geometry (hd1)

drive 0x81(LBA): C/H/S=1023/255/63, Sector Count/Size=16434495/512

Partition num: 0, active, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x54

It's reported as 8 GB drive.

partition type 0x54: compare section: 8.2 DM6:DDO

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Large-Disk-HOWTO-8.html

the entire disk is shifted by 63 sectors

cat --hex (hd1)63+1

Yes, there is another MBR.

Circumvent the DDO:

map (hd0) (hd2)

map (hd1)63+16434000 (hd0)

Warning: total_sectors calculated from partition table(80276805) is greater than the number of sectors in the whole disk image (16434000). The int13 handler will disable any read/write operations across the image boundary. That means you will not be able to read/write sectors (in absolute address, i.e., lba) 16434000 - 80276804, though they are logically inside your emulated virtual disk(according to the partition table).

The used XP partition is less than 8 GB, within available boundary.

map --hookroot (hd0,0)chainloader /ntldrboot

XP does boot. First 32 GB of HDD available.

XP seems to shift 63 sectors given a partition type 0x54.

With the DDO

map (hd0) (hd1)map (hd1) (hd0)map --hookroot (hd0,0)root (hd0,0)chainloader +1

XP does boot. The whole HDD is available.

What really happens when the disk bigger than 32 Gb is connected?

The HDD set to a 40 GB HDD:

connected as primary master, configured as non at BIOS: Machine dosn't boot, BIOS hangs

connected as secondary master, configured as non at BIOS: Machine dosn't boot, BIOS hangs

@Roman78 Try the suggested steps.

[jaclaz]

What's a floppy?

JFYI :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2905953.stm

A:las poor floppy, I knew you well

jaclaz

[pcalvert]

Personally, I would use Linux instead of Windows XP. It should install and run just fine with no tricks needed.

Phil

Edited August 27, 2013 by pcalvert

[jaclaz]

Personally, I would use Linux instead of Windows XP. It should install and run just fine with no tricks needed.

Good , personally , I would use QNX or BSD, what gives?

The problem here is seemingly that the BIOS "as is" does NOT boot from the bigger than 32 Gb "standard" hard disk, it is not that Linux (or any other OS) has an ESP DDO working around the issue, AFAIK.

If you prefer a DDO is OS agnostic.

As cdob verified if you manage - one way or the other - to initiate the boot from *something* else, a "protected mode" OS loads alright.

jaclaz

[pcalvert]

The problem here is seemingly that the BIOS "as is" does NOT boot from the bigger than 32 Gb "standard" hard disk, it is not that Linux (or any other OS) has an ESP DDO working around the issue, AFAIK.

Actually, under the scenario he specifically asked about -- booting from a 32 MB "SSD" -- Linux should work fine. However, I would use a larger flash drive -- at least 64 MB, but preferably 128 MB. I would format it as ext2 and use it as the boot partition. Everything else can go on the big IDE HDD.

Phil

[jaclaz]

Actually, under the scenario he specifically asked about -- booting from a 32 MB "SSD" -- Linux should work fine. However, I would use a larger flash drive -- at least 64 MB, but preferably 128 MB. I would format it as ext2 and use it as the boot partition. Everything else can go on the big IDE HDD.

And so should "in theory" the XP (with or without Kansas City Shuffle is to be determined) or any other "non -real mode" OS, as long as you manage to NOT use BIOS to access the hard disk and "jump" to protected mode (and dedicated OS drivers).

Please consider how we don't have any actual results from tests on the specific machines, but only the results of cdob's nice experiments with "comparable" but not "same" motherboards.

Another interesting approach would be to use KEXEC (or similar) to pre-boot in Linux and then switch to XP (though I am afraid you have to "go through" grub4dos or similar and that would vanify the whole thing ) or try kexec-loader:

http://www.solemnwarning.net/kexec-loader/

(this should allow to stay within the 32 Mb DOM alright, if the "switch" to Linux is decided)

There are a lot of possibilities or experiments to carry and seemingly so little time....

jaclaz

[cdob]

The DDO partition type 0x54 HDD connected at another XP machine with a IDE USB adapter.
XP does mount the HDD, a virtual HDD is attached.
The entire disk is shifted by 63 sectors and the first 63 sectors are hidden:
The virtual HDD \\.\PhysicalDriveN sector 0 maps to real HDD sector 63
The partitions are mounted.


Another hint http://reboot.pro/topic/18734-looking-for-a-way-to-detect-an-ide-drive-from-a-bootloader/


New game 3, HDD manufacturer independent approach:

HDD sector 0 cleared.
The truncated 32 GB HDD connected as primary master.
XP installed to a 8 GB partition.

A floppy image created, grub4dos included to boot code.
a:\grldr added and a:\menu.lst

title (hd0,0)/ntldrchainloader (hd0,0)/ntldr

Seagate "DiscWizard Starter Edition 10" booted and a rescue DDO floppy created.
Keep a Seagate HDD nearby, dosn't has to be connected...
The existing bootsector is remapped and used later.

Grub4dos added to HDD and menu.lst

title load DDO map --mem /ddo.img (fd0) map --hook chainloader (fd0)+1 rootnoverify (fd0)

The machine does boot
Grub4dos loads the DDO from the floppy image.
Next the DDO chainloads pervious boot sector code: grub4dos inside floppy image, this chainloads HDD ntldr
XP does boot, the whole 40 GB HDD is available


Further step:
You may replace grub4dos inside floppy image, use a:\ntldr and a:\boot.ini instead.

Added: include ntdetect.com and adjust pervious boot sector code too.

Yes, it works.

Edited September 1, 2013 by cdob