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270 replies to this topic

#251
jaclaz

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The beta free and a pro pre-purchase (basically a full version beta for the advantures people) could be out in a month I guess. Kinda collected a bigger todo while considering earlier release, still not ready.

You forgot to specify that you are talking of a latin month  ;), you should listen more to your (mute :w00t:) PR, and give not any forecast, least we'll have another bunch of posts of frenzied peeps wanting an update to the delivery date (or a preview, or more details, etc.).  :ph34r:

 

Just for the record, I approve of your NOT choosing a "subscription model" :yes:.

 

jaclaz


Edited by jaclaz, 09 July 2014 - 05:04 AM.



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#252
petrus

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What about payment options, will you accept cash orders or paysafe cards for people without credit cards & paypal?

As you know software like this is very popular in eastern Europe & Russia, where they don't hand out ccs like candy.

 

I generally have no problem with going commercial, even better if it means that it will go above and beyond nlite & hfslip!



#253
sixcentgeorge

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you are doing a big mistake with your complex registration system ....
it will be cracked as fastly as it happened to win8 8.1 despite the very complex system M$ created for registration
first of all : because the major thief in windows ' world is windows . do you still hear the winamp word or see it decoding mp3 ?
second of all because win9 will be free like apple os or linux


#254
5eraph

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What matters, sixcentgeorge, is that those that know the amount of work involved and appreciate the years of effort put into these projects will have an easy and official method to show their support and encourage the creation of great software.

#255
Kelsenellenelvian

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@ sixcentgeorge

 

Also win9 will definitely NOT be free.

 

Plus apple os is very arguable NOT free either. You pay 3x plus or more money for a apple system.

 

hmmm http://store.apple.c...06Z/A/os-x-lion

 

Personally with attitudes like your is why us small developers have to start charging at all. You wan't all the work and effort we put out for free.

 

Because my software is primarily free I frequently can't even afford things like internet or domain registration fees.

 

Next you'll want free gas and use the excuse that lots of people fill up thier tanks and just drive off without paying so why can't i?

 

I on many occasion have put in way over 60 hours a week into WPI and have in the last ten years received less than a months pay at minimum wage in unsolicited donations.

 

I would definitely after seeing your ungrateful crappy post think about not even having a free version at all....


Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 11 July 2014 - 01:58 AM.


#256
nuhi

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jaclaz, yeah, I should take the Blizzard route and say "when it's done".

 

petrus, among credit card and paypal, depending which country you are in, it supports extra payment methods like Check/Money Order, bank transfer, Giropay and so on. I picked a more expensive option at the seller, so it covers more ground.

 

sixcentgeorge, all software gets cracked, people who do not want to support the developer will steal it regardless of the licensing options.

I really do not see how a single license option is complicated. Feel free to contact me over PM so we can discuss it in more detail as to how you would simplify it.
And second point, just because Windows (or any other subject) is free, doesn't mean that a tool modifying that subject at your will, automated by my work, gets to be free as well.

You can use the same logic on a free picture, should Photoshop be free as well (of course there are free alternatives, not talking about that, but that Adobe is still alive and charging for Photoshop).


Edited by nuhi, 11 July 2014 - 05:28 AM.

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#257
b9810959

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Please add support for Windows Embedded POSReady 2009 it is almost the same as Windows XP, but with security updates until 2019


Edited by b9810959, 11 July 2014 - 01:27 PM.


#258
R4D3

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Nuhi,
 
in some ways - this robot is sad... (Pls give some guys like Kelsenellenelvian a free License)
Their long time extra support for nlite & prebuilding - helps in the past to create this big community. They deserve it ;)
 
Another point that makes me sad,
you did for a long time a good job, and i totally agree that you deserve some money for your new tool too...
 
- but, i don´t like the way, you like to did it ! - There are still many people in this world, who have slow & old computers, and don´t have the money to buy new Software... (this are the people who really needs all functions)
 
I wish you´ve done it, in another way... - as example: Kickstartercampain with 100.000$ Target and 3 to 5 years of support...
or 500.000$ for Writing the code, and release it as Opensource... - by a way like this, you got your donation, and the project can´t die as long as there is a community... Maybe you can sell the the old nlite code to be Opensource by this way ?
 
- in my opinion, a Kickstartercampin like that would be the best and most fair way to do it... - although if you decide, to do something else in your live, or if you die (Winter is coming for all of us...) - the project would be still alive than !
 
Offtopic:
For me, at all - its pointless, cause i never will use windows 7,8 - their "mousemovementbinded" energysavingmode - kills me and my CAD programs - so i still working with xp and its utilization saving mode (CPU Idle Throttling still works good) - maybe i get a cheap Server2003 Winversion from somewhere, until ReactOS came out...
Even AMD decide last year to drop the driversupport for my HD4770, - they did this to me 2 times before, and every time i bought new amd crap, they promised that i am prepared for the future - but they don´t say that future ends in their mind every 2 years !
I don´t play that game anymore, and completly stop buying things at all - cause its everywhere the same - new crap for the garbage and killing this tiny planet with tons of plastic...
 
Think about that R2-D2´s Batterie was completly unrepairable after 2 years existenz - he will never be able to bring Leia´s message to Obiwan ! Thats not the world i wanna live in ! Life of nonliving things must be longer than life of living things...
 
 
P.S. Cause i am forget Password and E-Mail on my R2D2 Account - R4D3 is my next life... (but same soil)
P.P.S my english is so bad, the entire text is red underlined here :D

Edited by R4D3, 12 July 2014 - 07:52 AM.


#259
sixcentgeorge

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i agree with every body that we all have to pay our bills , the crisis is very hard with little chicken like us : i also work in the pc world : i build watercooled computers and dvdrom linux live servers for games .
what i mean is that nuhi should be already paid , even few bucks , by this forum that has some adverts and use its products to make people come here .  some says i do not have the spirit of a sharer but is the forum and its "highest" are so exemplary ?
 
for the rest , you link to os 10.7  Kelsenellenelvian , first line shows a link to 10.9 that is free to download for apple customers , 8.1 did it a bit like that with w8 ...
 
i do not say that the software should be free , but even in the game world : with marvel or dc online , or dota ,tf2 from valve ....they do more money with the adds in forum or by selling some plus in game than selling it . of course with the software nuhi is making that apply changes once before install it is not that easy to charge : after when user wants more
that is the market and os are showing the same trend . if i were you i would set up a forum and let people gives you some money , then you can also offer to create some dvdrom to install for specific hardware with drivers and updates of them to earn more money .  [good luck finding a job]
 
by the way , i am sure next windows will come with such a tool as xplite , look at the removal tool of windows that is getting more and more functions and remove possibilities . 


#260
Ultimist

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I will likely buy the Pro version when it becomes available.

 

I do know, however, that when I buy a Pro version of software, I expect it to have tons of features. With the Pro version of this tool, I will expect to be able to shrink Windows to its utter bare bones (and still be able to run normal things (for me, those are: Internet & networking via Ethernet cable and Wireless G/N <including shared home network [not HomeGroup]>, Nvidia streaming, and VPN connectivity), DX11 gaming, MS Office, and Adobe CC <all programs>). If I can do those things, I don't need anything else bloating up my OS.

 

One thing about paying for software is that your $$$ gives you the absolute right to complain if you didn't get what you wanted. Freeware developers don't (necessarily) have to listen to the complaints or suggestions of their users. Paid software developers do, if they want to avoid a gazillion refund requests and the eventual death of their software.

 

I only mention this because I think people will expect *more* out of it if they have to pay for it.

 

Nuhi, I'm really curious what this super-special feature is for the Pro version? I can't wait...!

 

I have a suggestion how to set up the software for "newbies" or people who don't know what they're doing, lol... Have the software start in "safe" mode, where people can use it to remove a very limited set of things, speed up windows a bit, without breaking Windows... If a user wants the more advanced features, they have to tick a checkbox in the options (after reading a stiff warning about the possibility of rendering Windows unusable).

 

Anyway, I can't wait! I'm dying to strip Windows 7 x64 and 8.1 x64 down as much as possible. I like a neat, tidy OS with a small footprint and as few running processes as possible...



#261
sixcentgeorge

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i would be a windows killer , but what you want is steamos : for gaming and windows for working ;']  Ultimist 

i joke but not so much , the main think that makes windows so fat is the dll system that ms uses too much and with making a lot of change inside the files .

so now there is a folder WinSxS [ mine is bigger than 6 Go with a quite fresh w2012 ] that keeps all versions that softwares install ...and not only for dlls

 

shrinking windows obliges to check all the dlls , exe ....about the use of some parts in the others files already installed . linux shows clearly what files or "dlls" a software uses but windows NO , and for all files of it...

that is why nuhi should spend a lot of  time working instead of visiting the forum </3 </3


Edited by sixcentgeorge, 13 July 2014 - 06:41 AM.


#262
MagicAndre1981

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How do you shrink WinSxS nuhi? Again like VLite be brute forcing the deletion of keys and files so that it breaks a lot or do you remove packages completely?

 

Can we test the tool before it will be released?


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#263
nuhi

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b9810959, I won't be supporting Windows Embedded in any of my tools, I don't see the point as they are already split.

 

R4D3, I'm sorry that you are sad, but it seems to me your emotions are misplaced.

nLite is free, that is my gift to you (and Kels). If I am to give the next tool, which is completely written from scratch and basically has nothing to do with nLite except me, if I am to give it to all the fans for free, I would be left with 0 coins of compensation, and bye nuhi again.

Now you will have a free version of the new tool, and those of you that really do help I will gladly give free license, updates and what-not. And people that are good with the community I will include in as well.

But it is my subjective opinion as to what that valuable help will be.

 

So you think that I should not charge to poor people? Hm, that is a difficult subject and I won't be commenting on it.

 

Kickstarter could be a good idea, but not to sell code. People mainly use Kickstarter to kick-start a startup, not to do a one-time job and sell their livelihood (code in this case), thus killing that startup. And I would not be able to collect 0.5mil anyway, so it would again be sponsored by my savings.

 

Ultimist, I agree with your expectations, there will be more and more warnings to scare away those who do not understand what this tool is doing. One can't expect 100% Windows functionality with parts of it removed.

But up to some point of basic functionality on which we can agree, and make compatibility options, by all means, if you find a bug let me know and I fix it.

Pro feature... soon :)

 

Basic/Advanced mode... yes it might become necessary to hide tempting components. For now, there are compatibility options which are checked by default and they make protected components unclickable.

I also can't wait your feedback so that we can get to that dream tool one day.
 

sixcentgeorge, "instead of visiting the forum", lol, indeed. But without the connection I find this job boring.

 

MagicAndre1981, everything in Windows is files and registry entries, so in a sense I am not sure how to answer this. Let me just say I aim to not have any leftovers.
I saw people are using vLite with Windows 7, I cannot refer to what it is breaking or not.

 

I can add to that, if a package has, lets say 40 components in it, and I allow to remove them individually, you can't expect the tool to edit that package file and resign it to not know about the missing component(s).

That only Microsoft can/should do, I won't be bypassing any protections.

This brings issues with big hotfixes which essentially expect full Windows.
I have some ideas how to tackle that in the future, which I cannot discuss now, and until then I recommend to reinstall in that case.

Lets say you edited Windows 8.1 and Update 1 was out, of course Update 1 will error out and you would need to make a new ISO with it integrated and trimmed.

Us tweakers should all know this from using nLite, vLite and similar tools, so if you are in any way surprised, I am surprised at your surprise.

That said I went through a few patch Tuesdays on my lite OS, and hotfix failure rate is very very low, I am satisfied for now.

The tool was built from the beginning to treat WinSxS integrity as a must.

Of course I would like 0% failed hotfixes, but I am aware that is not possible post-install with every configuration, especially with big Update packs.

There will be a warning about this, to scare away anyone that is not really into it.

 

edit: there will basically be a beta version soon (in a month probably). And if you meant will there be a free open Pro beta test, then no, due to the nature of the tool (you might need it only once), the Pro version will be a beta pre-purchase for those who want to have some fun and show support in advance while basic bugs are being ironed out.


Edited by nuhi, 13 July 2014 - 08:39 AM.

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#264
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nuhi, can you give us an idea of the installation sizes for stripped down Windows versions you have been testing on?

 

Thanks


Download all Windows XP Post SP3 High-Priority Updates with a simple double click @ xdot.tk post-12166-0-42859000-1399044129.png ]
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#265
jaclaz

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- but, i don´t like the way, you like to did it ! - There are still many people in this world, who have slow & old computers, and don´t have the money to buy new Software... (this are the people who really needs all functions)

 
 
I will make a strong statement about poor people. :w00t:
 
Anyone should try giving - within their possibilities - their assistance to poor people in the form of providing them (or contribute to providing them) with primary goods, like water, food and shelter and primary rights, like freedom, basic medical assistance, education, etc.
 
nlite, vlite (or whatever the computer program by Nuhi will be called) is NOT among these primary needs, particularly because it's intended usage is exclusively for modifying a Commercial OS, rest assured that the "poor people" that can afford:


  • electricity
  • a computer
  • a valid MS license for the OS
  • an internet connection

will also be able, if they really need it, by saving a little and with some small sacrifices to put together the needed handful (or heaps :ph34r:) of bucks needed to buy a license for the program from Nuhi.

 

Also, the same poor people may well decide to make use of the resources they have to create a "competing" free (as in freedom) and free (as in free beer) product, possibly even better than the tool by Nuhi :w00t:.

 

What will happen instead will probably be that these poor people (which are also probably not using a licensed MS OS) will use on it a cracked version of Nuhi's tool and will also whine about it and/or whine about how unfair the licensing of the tool is, attempting to make the Author feel guilty because he tries to make some money out of his own work and time.

 

Compare with all the whining about Aeroglass nagging....

 

jaclaz


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#266
boooggy

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size of windows 8.1 pro x64 ISO that i used for testing in vmware is 1.04 gb. (contains most of my needed components and up 2 date)

 

size of windows install reported by windows is 3.20 gb without pagefile and with vmware tools installed. 


Edited by boooggy, 13 July 2014 - 10:47 AM.


#267
ricktendo

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Is there any chance you could do an "Intermediate" (middle ground) version, one that does not have all the features of the "Pro" version except it does have all Package/Component Removals?

Edited by ricktendo, 13 July 2014 - 11:15 AM.


#268
R4D3

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nuhi, maybe a missunderstanding... - don´t wanna tell you how you are, you will know it better...

 

so aggain, what i have tried to say is that there are many people out in this world, who uses very old hardware - this is mostly common in poor countrys [or why there is a Starter_Edition ?

 

We all know that there are different levels of poorness, but a poor child - died by hunger doesnt mean that the poor guy somewhere else with a 3 Dollar Pentium II Computer is a rich guy)

 

many people in asia, russia, afrika, - use old computers (like in Cuba with the cars) - and in my mind its very good that they use them - as long as they work !

 

So for people who have a 1500$ Laptop, it doesn´t matter, if they save two Gigabyte - but those running a Pentium II with 20GB Harddrive 2GB is 10%

so in my mind - your tool would be more usefull for this guys - who doens´t have the money as for them, who have it...

 

it is just a mind, you don´t have to agree with that...  

 

- the other thing: the idea about kickstarter... - uhmmm i often see people who collect money just for one project or for a support... - whats with the guy who started to collect 10 Dollar for a potato salat ? - last thing i have heared is something like 67.000 !!! - if there is a good campain before - i think you can get easily 500.000$ for a public free version with 3 Years support... - but maybe i am a dreamer... - but thats impossible - cause robots can´t dream... - or feel or beeing sad


Edited by R4D3, 13 July 2014 - 10:13 PM.


#269
Ponch

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those running a Pentium II with 20GB Harddrive 2GB is 10%

Flawed example. To real people (if they even exist) running Windows 7 on a PII, disk space would be the least of their worries.



#270
aviv00

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hey nuhi pls show us a peek from the app :)

thx for coming back :)


Edited by aviv00, 14 July 2014 - 03:00 AM.


#271
nuhi

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ricktendo, maybe later when such split has more meaning.

 

 

 

Ok, once a wise person said lock this topic :)

For the most part we are going in circles, and I should be working on the tool itself.
You'll see it soon enough, feel free to open a new topic in vLite forum if you need to discuss something about the upcoming tool, vLite is kinda closer to it.

 

Reason to close this topic is to keep nLite forum mainly about ... nLite, and to not have one big topic about licensing, anticipation, philosophy and so on.

It was fun and informative, let's continue elsewhere and split the topics.

Click.


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