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submix8c

HP G43 MoBo NoPS2+USB KBD/MOUSE NoDetect

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This is an All USB/All SATA HP Pegatron Eureka3 (IPIEL-LA3 Rev1.02) in a Model HPE-137c-b, AMI BIOS=v5.14 (can see that on PowerOn). I got tasked by a friend with "fixing" it.
- Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q9300 (visual confirm)
- 8GB DDR3 - 4 slots (visual confirm)
- PCI-e x1 Wireless Network (internal antenna)
- PCI-e x16 Video (RADEON HD4350 - on-board VGA/DVI "covered")
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&docname=c01746799
(Note- all stickers, including HP-specific COA are intact.)

I had tried 3 different keyboards (all function on other PC's) and none are detected, nor is the mouse (I'll get to that). I called him, it was then he informed me that the USB Keyboard wasn't recognized the next time it was turned on. The BIOS documentation has nothing on KBD/MOUSE (obviously, since no PS/2 ports). F10 is normally to enter BIOS.

Symptoms as follows:
1- KBD/MOUSE not detected (in any USB ports).
2- Windows-7 Boot screen appears with
- "Windows Failed To Start. A recent hardware change might be the cause." Defaults (no KBD/MOUSE) to "Repair" selection.
3- Proceeds to boot, performs Startup Repair (a window), the displays another window with
- "Do you want to restore your computer using System Restore?" with Restore/Cancel buttons. No KBD/Mouse so no choice but PowerOff.

Performed the following (same symptoms):
1- Blew it completely out (pretty dusty).
2- Disconnected all Front USB (includes SD/MMC slots).
3- Cleared CMOS (jumper), says "Defaults Loaded".
*- Note - "Clear Password" jumper has no effect (also used w/F10).
4- Reconnected USB, disconnect SATA HDD+DVD, attached USB Floppy - not accessed.
5- Inserted USB "LiveXP To Ram", fully boots, but must PowerOff.
*- Note - ONLY the Three Front ones, the Four Rear ones DO NOT (all are USB2)
6- Pulled the Video/Wireless and "uncovered"/used the On-Board Video.

I have dug around HP and the WWW and found multiple references to Eureka3. I managed to find the following BIOS
1- v5.05 (indicates XP/Vista)
2- v5.14 (indicates XP/Vista)
3- v6.07 (indicates Windows7)
4- v6.09 RevA (indicates Windows7)
All of them are to be installed via Windows and found by searching the MoBo strings. Strangely, HP does find the Serial# and clearly indicates "Windows7 x64 Home Premium" (as does the stickers, which all still exist). Obviously, SLIC2.0/2.1 must be in there somewhere for HP to have preloaded any of the given OS, but no indication WHICH Models they are for, only the MoBo/OS+Version-Fixes.

On the MoBo I can't seem to find the BIOS chip to get any further info and all but one chip has HeatSinks so I can't confirm much more. I did, however pull ALL specs and, weirdly, googling
- eureka3 amd motherboard -
there are references to the EXACT SAME PART NUMBER but says Socket AM3, so I'm guessing thos are full to the eyelids.

I have found information indicating that BIOS v5.x can't be upgraded to v6.x. This, however, only applies to running under Windows. IOW, I found the associated (internal) documentation indicating using the DOS BIOS Update Program (which I have) plus the "/x" option, allowing up/down version flashing.

The questions -
1- Since this is a new BIOS, what part of the Code would USB Keyboard/Mouse detection be in (no separate chip?) so I'll know specifically which "parts" to flash/not-flash (there are options for them).
2- How can a v5.14 BIOS be there and have Windows-7 installed, unless it has the SLIC2.1 and HP isn't saying that?
3- Should I use FAT16 on the USB stick? (Fat32 SHOULD be OK?)
4- Would Win98SE "basic" Boot be OK, or would another DOS-OS (DR-DOS) be better?
5- Shouldn't USB1.1 KBD's work in USB2 Front Connectors?
*- Note - Two are the "dead Dell E521" keyboards, one is an older Gateway.

Obviously, I would have to flash via AUTOEXEC.BAT with the "/q" option since no KBD at the time.

The (possible) process -
1- Test Boot to "basic" DOS
2- Backup current BIOS (v5.14)
3- ATTEMPT to flash downloaded BIOS (v5.14) and pray
4- (MAYBE) ATTEMPT to flash newer BIOS (v6.09)
I have nothing to lose at this point since I have confinced my friend that he will probably need another eBay Refurb with same Part#533234-002. Even a replacement MAY not have the Windows-7 SLIC2.1 BIOS and HOPE that the HDD would boot and stay Activated, otherwise reload with COA key and Activate just to be done with it.
*- Comments on above?

Side notes-
Warranty states Begin=May17,2010/End=May16,2011
and the following from Internal Documentation-

Beginning with the Summer 2010 introduction cycle, all HP desktop PC products will transition to Version 6 BIOS.
Converged Motherboards
CSB Motherboards will roll part numbers due to BIOS and the addition of bumpers on the board.
Premium boards will maintain the same part numbers.
Beginning with V6 BIOS, the SSID of the motherboard will be displayed rather than the motherboard code name in programs such as System Information.
Segment - CSB
Platform - Eureka3
MB Supplier - Pegatron
SSID - 2A94
Notes - EOL Fall (...obviously, end of 2010)



The FlexBuild sticker DOES HAVE the v6.x FeatureByte strings and am a bit concerned about the SystemID stuff (Product Name, SKU, Serial#, Features, ETC) being "wiped" during flash. Apparently, not a problem with the FeatureByte stuff (SMBIOS Type 11).

BIOS Flash Notes and Recommended Parameters

Converged BIOSBeginning Summer ‘10 Cycle, all Consumer 6J Products will transition to Version 6 BIOS; most but not all of the SBSO 7F Products will also roll to Version 6. Eventually all DPC motherboards will be using Version 6 BIOS.This change is directly tied to the introduction of the new factory tool sets, including IRS+ and the new Recovery process.The BIOS is not compatible between the two versions for the end user on a working system. The BIOS can be flashed between versions in preparation for use in a system.BIOS’s that are on the web will not allow a V5 BIOS to be flashed with a V6* This is aimed at those “power” users who will search and try the latest driver* The softpaq process will not allow a flash to take place, no damage doneService centers & partners will have the ability to flash from V5 to V6 OR V6 to V5 via a switch in the command line. This switch is using /x /n option during flashing. Care must be exhibited when using this option as there is no pre-check to confirm the correct BIOS ROM is being used. The use of an incorrect BIOS ROM will render the board useless. These instructions apply only to AMI based boards, which are a majority of DPC boards.This converged BIOS also provides the interface for DMI information.* This replaces the functionality of existing CPC_DMI or BPC_DMI tools* The CPC tool was frozen at the end of the Spring ‘10 cycle.The following pages give more information on DMI input.In order to enter the BIOS and edit the DMI information, the use of Ctrl-F10 is required. Using F10 only will bring up the DMI information in read-only.Re-flash instructions:These instructions are dependent on the process requirements of the region in regards to flashing BIOS.The basic instruction is to update the motherboard to the latest BIOS with the use of command switches. A Version 6 motherboard must be re-flashed in order to remove the read-only Type 11 strings. This has to be done with a DOS flash utility.Same BIOS version (only required for V6)(AMI-BIOS flash) /n; appending the standard flash autoexec.bat with the /n switchFor example: AFU EU36.05 /p /b /c /nChanging BIOS version (5 to 6 or 6 to 5)(AMI-BIOS flash) /x /n (This should only be used if there is a need to re-balance inventory)For example: AFU EU36.05 /p /b /c /n /x

Note- The v6.x BIOS I have are appropriatley named "EU36.nn".

Additionally, DO NOT ask about the Internal Docs or the Utilities I have. Not giving them out, you find them. (That statement is for the general populace.)

WHEW!!! Hardware/BIOS Guru's, have at me!

EDIT- Found the BIOS next to the CMOS/PWD Jumpers (Fintek?) and a sticker next to it specifically stating v5.14.

Edit2- Forgot to mention the Flash Utility allows for loading certain Defaults from the BIOS-file -or- from the Running BIOS. Consider this a final question on "which ones" (Default or Optimized)...

Edited by submix8c
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Use an USB card into the PCI slot, should work.

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Hmmm... would give that a shot but it's all PCI-e. :( Guess I could find&buy one. Seems a shame to go through the effort of a chancy MoBo change. Heck the Video Card alone runs pretty expensive.

Still, no KBD in the front Ports? Will inspect the Rear Ports very carefully...

(Stupid OEM's....)

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I´ve seen it before, when there was a short in an USB port (check if the ports are still good). Even if you would replace the fuses on the board it still might not work. A PCI-E card will still come in handy in the future ;). Odd thing is that it does enter the BIOS and it might also still be working in Windows. Some strange virus bugging the system?... Might be also... But does Windows 7 install work when you boot it from USB (using Windows 7/8 DVD-Tool)?

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I´ve seen it before, when there was a short in an USB port (check if the ports are still good). Even if you would replace the fuses on the board it still might not work. A PCI-E card will still come in handy in the future ;). Odd thing is that it does enter the BIOS and it might also still be working in Windows. Some strange virus bugging the system?... Might be also... But does Windows 7 install work when you boot it from USB (using Windows 7/8 DVD-Tool)?

1 - Yes maybe "short" but kids severe interruptions. Will check later.

2 - What fuse? (see link to MoBo)

3 - Agreed. Have to get to "store" to see if they have any.

4a - "Enter the BIOS"? Is that where the first message comes from (No Keyboard)?

4b - Can't get past the "After Boot To Windows" to allow for it (No Keyboard).

5 - Virus in Windows? Maybe.

6 - Would have to attempt that with ANOTHER HDD (OEM Preinstall on original). COULD maybe do it from the DVD - it DOES "blink" the light so I'm "assuming' The Boot Order is DVD/HDD/USB-Device (no clue about Wired NIC - nothing displays).

Bear in mind this is an HP OEM Install and may have "Create Recovery DVD" in it. SATA-II DVD-BluRay and SATA-II 1-Terrabyte PreInstall. This is apparently NOT a UEFI and I'm unfamiliar with any BIOS that cause the first message. The HP Logo shows when turned on and F-(whatever) keys lines for BIOS options shows plus the v5.14 BIOS version. That's it -THEN...

1st Message appears to be similar to an F8-style warrning "hardware failure or hardware change". Selection to Boot Normally or Recover (the hi-lited default).

2nd Message is absolutely after 30-second timeout and booting into Windows Recovery. Then the Windows showing as stated.

This bad boy was purchased new at Sam's Club. I have no clue how long it was "down" having no keyboard/mouse. That's why I thought MAYBE it might "come alive" if I DOS-flashed and forced Defaults (which?) from the BIOS File.

AFUDOS -

CommandsThe mandatory field is used to select an operation mode:• /O Save current ROM image to file• /U Get and display ROM ID from ROM file• /Ln Refer to option: /Ln• /M <MAC Address> Refer to option: /M• /MAI Display current system and ROM file's MA• /HOLE Update specific ROM hole by given name• /HOLEOUT Save specific ROM holedata by given name• /D Verification test of given ROM file without flashing• /EC Flash EC firmware BIOS (Refer to OFBD spec)Path: $BIOS/Corebin/800/ROMUtils/On FlashBlock Description Specification.PDF.Sample Code Module Path:$BIOS/Examples/On Flash Block Description• /NCB Flash NCB data by given name• /NCBOUT Output NCB data by given name• /C Destroy CMOS checksumOptionsThe optional field used to supply more information for flashing BIOS ROM.Following lists the supported optional parameters and format:• /P Program main bios image• /B Program Boot Block• /N Program NVRAM• /C Destroy CMOS after update BIOS done• /E Program Embedded Controller block if present• /K Program all non-critical blocks• /Kn Program n’th non-critical block only (n=0 – 7)• /Q Quiet mode enable• /REBOOT Reboot after update BIOS done• /X Do not check ROM ID• /S Display current system’s BIOS ROM ID• /Ln Load CMOS default (n=0 - 1)▪ L0: Load current CMOS optimal settings▪ L1: Load current CMOS failsafe settings▪ L2: Load CMOS optimal settings from ROM file▪ L3: Load CMOS failsafe settings from ROM file• /M<MAC Address> Update BootBlock MAC address if exists• /R Preserve all SMBIOS structures during NVRAM programming• /Rn Preserve specific SMBIOS structure during NVRAM programming• /ECUF Update EC BIOS when newer version is detected.• /ShutDown Shutdown system after programming.• /clnevnlog Clean Event Log.• /DeDftCfg Delete all default settings from BIOS.• /-Command Name Delete certain command’s default setting. [OEM Uses Only.]• /MEUF Update Intel ME ignition firmware.• /ME Update entire Intel ME region.Rules• Any parameter encolsed by < > is a mandatory field.• Any parameter enclosed by [ ] is an optional field.• <Commands> cannot co-exist with any [Options].• Main BIOS image is default flashing area if no any option present.• [/C], [/Q], [/REBOOT], [/X], [/Ln] and [/S] will enable [/P] function automatically.• If [/B] present alone, there is only the Boot Block area to be updated.• If [/N] present alone, there is only the NVRAM area to be updated.• If [/E] present alone, there is only the Embedded Controller block to be updated.• If [/E] and [/ECUF] co-exist, [/ECUF] will be no function.• If [/Kn] present alone, there is only non-critical block to be updated.• When [/Ln] is co-exist with [/C], [/C] will be no function.• [/M] can be used as a command for backward compatible.

Will be putting original HDD in another box, booting to LiveXP and retrieving photos, etc. Then LAN-scanning for viruses (fwiw). Again, don't want to "wipe" the OEM install and I don't have a MONSTER HDD to Image it to. :( Limited options...

Edited by submix8c
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1 - Yes maybe "short" but kids severe interruptions. Will check later.

Less sugar and sodas could help there ;).

2 - What fuse? (see link to MoBo)

They are market with an "X" on the motherboard, mostly are green colored, to replace them you need to weld them of and on again.

4a - "Enter the BIOS"? Is that where the first message comes from (No Keyboard)?

My bad, I thought you could enter the BIOS, if not, Windows would not detect it either and it looks like the USB ports are taken out by a short. The BIOS is placed underneath the battery, that small 8 pin chip that you see there.

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GACK! (Nearly) opposite corner next to the CMOSclr/PWDclr jumpers is the BIOS version (very near the BIG chip).

The one you say is the BIOS is right next to the "Recover" Header (SPI header?) so that makes sense (to completeley reprogram the BIOS).

I'll look for a "fuse", but... AND will carefully inspect for a "short".

Also, went to my favorite "used parts" place and the guy told me somewhere nearby that "should" have the PCI-e USB card for approx.$10, so going to try that as well. The guys at my "favorite place" are OEM/Refurbishers so I trust them (very knowledgable) - they also said try the USB Add-In. :yes:

Thx - will get back to you. :thumbsup:

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Hard to tell what chip the BIOS is for me as all images on the net seem to be blurry and can´t find a sharp enough one to see what the right chip is. The fuses on that mobo seem to be black with "110" on it, there seems to be one underneath the PS2 ports (yes, the flat and wide SMD component).

MINISMDF%2014-110%20SERIES.jpg

I'm almost sure you will end up replacing that mobo; 20 bucks and you should have a good used one, but it's hard to get that model so get yourself a better brand and call MS for a new activation of the Windows license (tell them that the motherboard had to be replaced).

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You mean USB Ports. There appear to be 8 of them, identified with "269U" (gold-ish ends, black across middle, EXTREMELY small).

External - neither of these work
1 next to the Rear USB Ports Connector
1 next to the Rear USB+NIC Ports Connector

Internal Headers (in this order) - these work
1 next to USB Hdr #1 (white dual) FUSB2 (n/c)
1 next to USB Hdr #2 (white dual) FUSB1 (upper USB ports)
1 next to USB Hdr Pair (black sngl) FUSB3(upper SD/MMC)/FUSB4(n/c)
1 next to USB Hdr Pair (black sngl) FUSB5(n/c)/FUSB6(single port)

FUSB1 and FUSB3 are directly at top front of case.
FUSB6 is beneath a "door" at the side front of case along with Front Headphone/Mic connectors.
The documentation states that the HP Wireless Keyboard/Mouse Tranceiver is (normally) to be plugged into a Front USB Port.

Now the odd parts -
- Odd that both Extenal Rear fuses would be bad
- Note (again) that KYBD/MOUSE do NOT work in ANY of the Front

These (along with the initial post) is the reason I had assumed that perhaps the BIOS KYBD/MOUSE Detect had somehow been borked since FUSB1 Ports (both) Boot to USBstick as well as FUSB6 Port (single).

Options at this point (in order) -
1- Try PCI-e USB Add-In
2- Try BIOS Flash Manipulation (nothing to lose)
3a- Replace MoBo
3b- Build-A-Computer

*- have yet to try (but why) clean install to different HDD (from DVD/USB)

Untrue that MoBo=$20. Yes, I have been digging deep for equivalent specs as well.
On eBay $75+$10s&h exact Refurb PN 533234-002. Google that or eBay Search (select "include description").
Not trusting any other HP-brand MoBo Replacement PartNumbers.

Remember that any Replacement MoBo must meet all requirements of other existing hardware or I'll be facing a complete Box Build.

And this (with specs) is what the Computer is and where it was purchased from (complete).
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/d-hp-pavilion-elite-desktop-2-50ghz-1tb-27-lcd/prod1030282.ip

Here, on eBay is "just the Tower" -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Pavilion-Elite-HPE-137c-b-1-TB-Intel-Core-2-Quad-2-5-GHz-8-GB-Desktop-/111158624187?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item19e191ffbb

Jeez, this is for a "friend", so I can't expect beaucoup bucks for the work.

Edited by submix8c
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Untrue that MoBo=$20. Yes, I have been digging deep for equivalent specs as well.

On eBay $75+$10s&h exact Refurb PN 533234-002. Google that or eBay Search (select "include description").

Not trusting any other HP-brand MoBo Replacement PartNumbers.

Remember that any Replacement MoBo must meet all requirements of other existing hardware or I'll be facing a complete Box Build.

I mend not that particular board, but something that support DDR3 and LGA775 from for example Gigabyte with G41 chipset (20 = 50 btw., that was a typo). But, you have 4 2GB sticks so that will be a problem, *sigh*.

- Let's hope the USB PCI-E does something ;).

EDIT: 70USD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/533234-002-Refurbished-HP-EUREKA3-GL8E-Desktop-Motherboard-IPIEL-LA3-/190882330282 with shipping in the USA.

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Since the good ol' times of DIN connectors, before PS/2 connectors became mainstream, I have saved more than a few motherboards from trash by replacing those little "fuses", so it is something I would also check attentively.

Another hint ;), try with a USB Y cable, it is possible that the actual USB bus is working but the device doesn't get the 0/+5 V.

jaclaz

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Assuming you mean this "Y"-cable?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-USB-Female-to-2-USB-A-Male-Power-Y-Cable-Extension-/390175349100

PCI-e USB3 Add-in ($20) is a no-go.

USB->PS/2 Adapter ($20) is a no-go. (Besides, BIOS shouldnt even support PS/2 and should ALWAYS use "legacy".)

Also both are no-go on my dead (may as well be) Dell E521 ("Keyboard error"). This MoBo just flat-out ignores the keyboard but gives no error whatsoever.

Those fuses are like REALLY tiny. I can barely see them with reading glasses on AND a magnifying glass. Are they "glued" on somehow, BTW? And where on earth would I get the correct replacements? And (again) why do all six "sets" of USB's (based on the number of fuses) fail the keyboard detection? It DOES boot to a USB stick, so "power", really for sure? Fuses, really for sure? Something extremely odd about this. ( Almost not worth all of this...:( )

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Assuming you mean this "Y"-cable?

Yep,IF the issue is not having power (or enough power) on a single port.

What happens by attaching a keyboard (do the numlock/CAPS LOCK leds light briefly? Do they switch on off when pressing the corresponding keys?

Those fuses are like REALLY tiny. I can barely see them with reading glasses on AND a magnifying glass. Are they "glued" on somehow, BTW?

No, they are SMD.

They are soldered.

And where on earth would I get the correct replacements?

Scrap motherboard.

And (again) why do all six "sets" of USB's (based on the number of fuses) fail the keyboard detection?

It DOES boot to a USB stick, so "power", really for sure?

Sorry, did not notice this piece of info earlier, but maybe with this feature you could try re-flashing the BIOS.

Fuses, really for sure? Something extremely odd about this. ( Almost not worth all of this... :( )

Well, the fun is sometimes when there is no reason or worth.... ;).

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Darn, didn't know you bought a USB 3.0 card, that might not work as some cards will need drivers for it to work... Any way, so you can boot from USB on the motherboard, but didn't try to boot with that same USB stick in the USB 3.0 card?

Looks like a lot of hassle for a supermarket-PC ;), better get that motherboard of ebay... To bad you don't live in Italy else Jaclaz would fix it for fun :w00t: . I know that i would be kicking that PC around the room by not, to get my part of fun out of it :crazy: .

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Looks like a lot of hassle for a supermarket-PC ;), better get that motherboard of ebay... To bad you don't live in Italy else Jaclaz would fix it for fun :w00t: . I know that i would be kicking that PC around the room by not, to get my part of fun out of it :crazy: .

Well, if you haven't ever fixed/reworked/re-soldered tiny SMD components or reflowed (or reballed :w00t:) a BGA component, with cheap, common tools, you are missing the satisfaction in the (actually rare :ph34r:) case that you manage to do it successfully :thumbup:.

jaclaz

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