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VLC 2.1.0 and Windows 98 - not quite working (?)

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#1
Nomen

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A little while ago I installed VLC 2.1.0 over-top (or replaced) 2.0.6.  Other than setting the install file to kernelX win-XP/sp2 compability mode, and also vlc.exe to the same, I haven't done anything else.

 

VLC seems to run fine - except that it plays flac and mp3 files horribly - like it frequency-shifts the audio and it sounds really bad.  I haven't tried to play any video with it yet.

 

Is there anything I need to do (mess with codecs, edit a kstub file, etc) to get this to work?

 

Edit:  I've played various types of video files, and the video is fine, but the audio is horrible.

 

PS:  Is there any way to enable a "simple" text editor when creating or editing posts on msfn?  I can't seem to type anything in the edit window using my default browser (Firefox version - Bon Echo) so instead I'm using Opera 12.

 

 


Edited by Nomen, 09 November 2013 - 09:08 PM.



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#2
schwups

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You must choose compability mode XP for the installation, but don't run VLC Player with that mode :no: . KernelEX is enabled (default) should work :) . You also have to replace the msvcrt.dll by msvcr70.dll (see Wiki).



#3
Nomen

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You must choose compability mode XP for the installation, but don't run VLC Player with that mode :no: . KernelEX is enabled (default) should work :) . You also have to replace the msvcrt.dll by msvcr70.dll (see Wiki).

 

My current version of msvcrt.dll is 7.10.3052.4.  The file is located in \windows\system and is 360,448 bytes (Apr 5/2004).

I have msvcr70.dll also in \windows\system.  It is version 7.00.9466.0 and is 344,064 bytes (Jan 5/2002).

 

From DOS, I renamed msvcrt.dll to msvcrt.old and copied msvcr70.dll to msvcrt.dll and re-started windows.  I made sure that vlc.exe kernelEx property was set to enabled (default) and tried again to play some music files.  There was no change - audio playback was essentially noise (technically, not "white" noise or static, but strange frequency-shifted or maybe 4-bit audio instead of 16-bit?).

 

I then downloaded the .zip version (stand-alone?) file vlc-2.1.0-win32.zip, unpacked it, then ran vlc.exe and tried to play an audio file - and again it was noise.  Yesterday I downloaded vlc-2.0.8-win32.zip (again, I think this is stand-alone) and it plays audio just fine.

 

Regarding msvcr70.dll - did I follow the instructions correctly?  Do I have the right file?



#4
Drugwash

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After having compared a few msvcr???.dll versions, I've reached the conclusion v7.0.9981.0 is the optimum choice for my system.

Replacement was much more easier: open RegEdit, navigate to

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\KnownDLLs

and add/modify a String value called MSVCRT to read MSVCR70.DLL as Data (or whatever version/path you may have to it).

 

Personally I renamed a copy of msvcrt70.dll to msvcrx.dll in the System folder and that's the Data I set in the above-mentioned registry key.

 

Paths are relative to the System folder, so if you deploy your library in a different folder, you'll have to use standard relative path naming. I believe absolute path may work too. If you have KernelEx installed, you'll notice a few relative paths leading to its folder.

 

Personally I use Trout as audio player and GOMPlayer for video (beware of 2.2.53.5169, it's buggy even on XP - last 98-compatible is 2.1.43.5119 I believe and haven't tried newer versions under KernelEx).


Edited by Drugwash, 11 November 2013 - 09:06 AM.


#5
Nomen

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Here is the direct download link for what I think is the stand-alone (no installation required) version of VLC 2.1.0:

 

http://mirror.csclub...2.1.0-win32.zip

 

Or use what-ever mirror you're comfortable with.  It would be useful to know what other experiences are for this version in terms of audio playback.



#6
schwups

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I assume that your problems still persists.

Did you try a clean install (delete preferences and cache)? Did you run after uninstall a registry cleaner?

Vlc 2.1 runs on all of my machines without these problems (default settings). The player doesn't need external codecs. Probably it works best with the internal codecs.

 

Maybe there is an incompatibility with another app.


https://wiki.videola...Audio:Crackles/



#7
DougB

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It would be useful to know what other experiences are for this version in terms of audio playback.

 

FLAC, MP3, WAV, WV, WMA all playing ok for me.  

I'm using the portable/zip version of VLC 2.1.0.  

For MSVCRT.DLL, i have v7.10.7031.4 copied over to MSVCRT.DLL in the Windows\System\ folder.  

Here's the VLC on-site URL for the portable (.zip) download: http://download.vide...b/videolan/vlc/

Have you tried setting VLC to run at a higher priority in Tools > Preferences?  

- Doug B.



#8
Nomen

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Ok, I think I've solved the problem.  First, I had to realize that changing settings in the advanced preferences always seems to require closing and then opening VLC for the changes to take effect.  

 

I found that the default setting for VLC 2.1.0 for  Audio - Output Modules - DirectX and Waveout both enable "Use float32 output".  Once I de-selected those (removed check-mark) the audio plays fine.

 

I went back and looked at the settings for the stand-alone VLC 2.0.8 and float32 options WERE NOT CHECKED.

 

So if someone wants to see if their win-98 system will play audio with the float32 option enabled, that would be useful to confirm if it needs to be disabled.  Remember that you need to restart VLC after making these changes.



#9
schwups

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My setting for float32 is enabled (default).

 

 

High-quality float32 audio output isn't well supported by some soundcards:

 

 

https://forum.videol...hp?f=14&t=48799

 

https://wiki.videola...s/directx_aout/

 

https://wiki.videola...odules/waveout/



#10
MiKl

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No audio problems with float32 enabled on my systems but I do not like 2.1.0 at all.

As soon as I experimented a little bit with codecs and settings that version always crashed - even on XP !!

I didn't even count how many crash reports were sent.

So I kept the browser plug-in and went back to 2.0.8. Hopefully the next build will be better.



#11
schwups

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Yesterday I tried some nightly builds 2.1.1 and 2.2.0, unfortunately without success to run them. http://nightlies.vid.../win32/?C=M;O=D

 

Error: Vlc causes an error in Libvlccore.dll 

I haven't examined the problem more closely yet.



#12
schwups

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VLC 2.1.1 released: http://download.vide...lc/2.1.1/win32/
 
There are a lot of changes and fixes.

 

Spoiler

 
 
 
Now flac is rendered ugly for me.
 
I get the same poor audio quality when playing flac on XP SP2 on the same machine. So I guess the reason is the old soundcard (Creative SB PCI128 (Ensoniq ES1371) PCI) or a new bug.


Edited by schwups, 14 November 2013 - 07:53 AM.


#13
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VLC 2.1.1 on another machine (VIA VT1612A @ VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio Controller    PCI onboard): Flac is rendered with that nasty sound, too. The other formats I tested seem to be ok, also mp3.

 

There's no problem with Flac using version 2.1.0. I performed the tests with default settings.



#14
Nomen

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VLC 2.1.1 on another machine (VIA VT1612A @ VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio Controller    PCI onboard): Flac is rendered with that nasty sound, too. The other formats I tested seem to be ok, also mp3.

 

There's no problem with Flac using version 2.1.0. I performed the tests with default settings.

 

Does it make a difference if you turn off the float32 setting?

 

I just downloaded this:  http://download.vide...2.1.1-win32.zip  It doesn't seem to require installation - vlc seems to run directly from the directory you unpack it from.  So I ran it, and immediately checked the float32 settings and they were off.  I then played a flac file (Acoustic Alchemy - Reference point) and it played fine.  Bit-rate showed anywhere from 800 to over 1000 kbits/sec.  I then played Yellowjackets - Live Wires (.wav file) 720 mb .wav file (I believe this is a DTS 5.1 file) with VLC reporting input bitrate of about 1400.  Sounded great.

 

But all is not well.  I then played another .flac file (Pools - Steps Ahead) - with VLC showing only about 800 kbits/sec input bit-rate.  It played in a sort of stuttering way - as if someone was opening and closing a switch connecting my PC to the speakers, with no noise or poping during the switching.  I stopped the playback and ran VLC.exe from version 2.0.8 and played the same file - and it sounded fine.  

 

I played a few more large .flac tracks (Pat Metheny) with 2.1.1 and they seemed to play fine, but something I noticed is that there is a single stutter at the very start when playing many flac files.



#15
schwups

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I've done two more tests with version 2.1.1. 

The first configuration: Vista SP1 / soundchip is the integrated Via VT1708 High Definition Audio controller. 

The second configuration: XP SP2 / onboard chip is the Realtek ALC 888s.

 

The result is I get the same poor audio quality again when playing flac.  :wacko:

 

 It played in a sort of stuttering way - as if someone was opening and closing a switch connecting my PC to the speakers, with no noise or poping during the switching.

The same here.

 

 

Does it make a difference if you turn off the float32 setting?

It doesn't matter on my systems. 

 

 

 It doesn't seem to require installation - vlc seems to run directly from the directory you unpack it from. 

Of course it runs without installation.

 

Accidentally my flac test files are Acoustic Alchemy, too. :)


Edited by schwups, 15 November 2013 - 06:33 AM.


#16
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It played in a sort of stuttering way - as if someone was opening and closing a switch connecting my PC to the speakers, with no noise or poping during the switching.

Probably the bug will be fixed with version 2.1.2. https://forum.videol...p?f=14&t=115231



#17
Nomen

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I downloaded some music recently (2-channel stereo, 24-bit, 192 khz) flac files.  They don't play on VLC 2.1.0 and 2.1.1 (I hear no audio during playback).  During playback, VLC statistics shows the input bit rate (input, demuxed and content) all active, but the Audio statistics (decoded / played / lost) all show 0 blocks / 0 buffers.

 

Even VLC 2.0.8 shows the same thing - no audio playback.  I tried a test file that I got more than a year ago (2-channel, 24-bit, 192 khz) and it also doesn't play.

 

The last version of VLC I had prior to updating was 2.0.6, and I know the high bit-rate files played on it, but I have to now go and find that version of VLC to be sure.

 

Schwups - can you play any high-resolution flac files (24-bit/192 khz) with VLC?  There are some available as test files here:  http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

 

The file 2L50SACD_tr01_stereo_192kHz.flac is the smallest one (108 mb).



#18
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Hallo Nomen,

 

I tried to play a (24-bit/192 khz) flac file of 2L.no with different versions. I only tested on one machine yet (Creative SB 128 PCI). 

 

Vlc versions 2.0 - 2.0.8 play the file on ME and XPSP2.

 

Versions 2.1.0 and 2.1.1 don't play it on ME.

 

VLC statistics shows the input bit rate (input, demuxed and content) all active, but the Audio statistics (decoded / played / lost) all show 0 blocks / 0 buffers.

confirmed

 

But they play it on XP SP2. So the problem seems related on 98/ME.

All tests performed with default settings.

 

All versions are available on http://download.vide...b/videolan/vlc/.


Edited by schwups, 25 November 2013 - 06:53 AM.


#19
schwups

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VLC 2.1.1

Tools > Messages:

 

directsound error: cannot open directx audio device

main error: module not functional

main error: failed to create audio output



#20
Drugwash

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I've performed a few tests with GOM Player, Trout and my own BASS-based player on my old 98SE.

 

First of all, the BASS library simply crashes with a  MSVCR70.dll used as MSVCRT.DLL. So any media player that uses BASS will likely crash. Not to mention BASS v2.4.10 (latest at the time of posting) crashes the audio driver in the DSP test application that comes with the package.

 

Then, none of the players would play the 2L50SACD_tr01_stereo_192kHz.flac on my 98SE, regardless of KernelEx compatibility settings for BASS.dll, bassflac.dll or player executables.

 

I got to the conclusion that the culprit may be dsound.dll and/or other 9x-specific media library common for all players. The file plays correctly in Trout under XP-SP3 and after installing oggcodecs, GOM Player was able to play it too under XP.

Installing a few older versions of oggcodecs in 98SE did not help; codecs appear to be loaded but all players would bail out.

 

Could anyone check the difference between the loaded modules of older (working) and newer (not working) VLC on a ME machine? We might get an idea of which file(s) break the playback.



#21
MiKl

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Indeed no sound with VLC 2.1.1 (portable) !!

MediaPlayerClassic Home Cinema (1.5.1.2903) plays the file but sound is very bad - sounds almost like a mono recording from the 1930s !!

So it may indeed be something more 98se related than a player 'issue'.



#22
schwups

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Could anyone check the difference between the loaded modules of older (working) and newer (not working) VLC on a ME machine? We might get an idea of which file(s) break the playback.

Procedure: I used the ProcessViewer. Saved the modules list as txt file and sorted the modules with Word alphabetically.

 

DSound.dll is loaded by version 2.1.1 and it isn't loaded by version 2.0.8. And there are a lot of differences with loaded Lib....Plugin.dll's between these versions.

 

Loaded modules 2.0.8:

Spoiler

 

 

Loaded modules 2.1.1:

 

Spoiler



#23
Drugwash

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Thank you for the listings above. It does seem that the new VLC switched to DSOUND processing/output and the old 9x-compatible version can't handle certain formats. Most likely any player that relies on dsound will fail on those formats.

 

On another note, today I've installed the MPC-HC version mentioned by Mikl above and tried to play more media files - none of them would. This means I have to fix some other issues on my system. Once I do that (hopefully), I'll have a look at that script, Mikl.



#24
schwups

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The default setting for the audio output modul is automatic. VLC 2.1.1 try to play the (24-bit/192 khz) flac file with DirectX audio output, whereas 2.0.8 switches to the waveout audio output. 2.1.1 plays the file, if I manually select the waveout audio output. This explains why 2.1.1 loads the DSound.dll and 2.0.8 don't.  :)


Edited by schwups, 25 November 2013 - 09:06 PM.


#25
Drugwash

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So, would the FLAC play in 2.1.1 with waveout set as output?

Nevertheless, dsound appears to be broken and whatever player depends on it will not be able to play FLAC, at least not the file in question.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that a much newer library (dsound.dll from DirectX 9.0c) is unable to play a file type that a much older (system original, assumingly) can? Unless there's something I'm missing here...

 

I've just installed VLC 2.0.5 in Win2000 compatibility and it plays the file in both Dsound and waveout modes, but both choppy as reported somewhere above. This could be due to missing CPU instructions (PIII doesn't have SSE2) and/or low speed (mine is 667MHz/133MHz bus).

Darn, we're just assuming things.


Edited by Drugwash, 25 November 2013 - 10:27 PM.





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