Jump to content

Welcome to MSFN Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account



Photo

Format flash drive

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1
mike13

mike13

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 148 posts
  • Joined 25-June 02
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag
Should a flash drive be formatted in Fat32, which I think is the default, or should it be formatted as NTSF ?? Or doesn't it really matter. Thanks, Mike


How to remove advertisement from MSFN

#2
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
It depends on a number of factors.
"stock" flash USB stick normally come formatted as "super-floppy" (i.e. NOT partitioned) and FAT32.
FAT32 cannot host files larger than around 4 Gb.
To boot from the stick it is usually needed to have it partitioned.
If you plan to boot from it some Linux OS, some of them do not have kernel level (or initial) support for NTFS.
FAT32 drivers have been dumbed down by MS, so NTFS is generally speaking, better performing, and it can host files larger than 4 Gb BUT, depending on some settings may wear out the device prematurely, see:
http://www.msfn.org/...d-on-usb-stick/
BUT there are strategies to format the stick providing a slightly better performance:
http://www.msfn.org/...n-its-clusters/
http://reboot.pro/to...-under-windows/
http://reboot.pro/to...-memory-drives/

Finally newish USB 3 "high end" USB sticks are not anymore flash dries, but rather (small) SSD's with a USB3 to SATA bridge.

jaclaz

#3
mike13

mike13

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 148 posts
  • Joined 25-June 02
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag
Thanks jaclaz for the reply and links to read, but I am not sure I understand what I read. First of all, I have never BOOTED from a flash drive. Not sure how to do that. I am confused about the part that FAT 32 will only host 4GB at most, because I have a 16 Gig flash drive that I know I have saved files to that were larger than 4 Gig. As far as the drive wearing out quicker if you format it as NTSF probably does not matter much as I only used these drives maybe once a week or less. With that said, I guess I should format them as NTSF in the future ?? Thanks

#4
Kelsenellenelvian

Kelsenellenelvian

    WPI Guru

  • Developer
  • 8,829 posts
  • Joined 18-September 03
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

He means that fat32 systems cannot handle SINGLE files that are 4+ gigs.

 

(That has been a very long known limitation.)


Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 12 November 2013 - 07:14 PM.


#5
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Again, it depends.
If you plan to use them only on newish MS OS's, you should go for exFAT which is faster and allows for large files. (but you loose compatibility with older systems).
If you need the wider compatibility, FAT32 is better, and you can (if you want) partition it and optimize the placement of the filesystem to gain some beter performance, but you won't be able to host on that filesystem files larger than 4 Gb (yes, of course you can have more than 4 Gb in different files, but the size of any single file must be smaller than 4 Gb).
If you want large file and "wide enough" compatibility, and overall a "more solid" filesystem[1], go for NTFS.

Always use "safe remove" or equivalent before removing a USB stck from a running PC.

jaclaz

N.B.:[1] the attribution of "more solid" in this context does NOT mean that I want to initiate the usual FAT32 vs. NTFS, Dracula vs. Mickey Mouse, Godzilla vs. King Kong flamewar :ph34r:, it is only meant to highlight some features of the NTFS that make in certain circumstances easier to recover data from a crashed filesystem :).  



#6
NixFix

NixFix
  • Member
  • 8 posts
  • Joined 26-February 14
  • OS:Windows 8 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

I've got my external hard drive (which I use for back-uping some ISO files) formatted into NTFS and a flash drive in FAT32 because I usually have to put it into Macs. My friend has a hard drive partitioned - half in NTFS and half in FAT - pretty handy.



#7
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

My friend has a hard drive partitioned - half in NTFS and half in FAT - pretty handy.

A cousin of mine has a USB hard disk that is roughly 1/3 NTFS, 1/3 FAT32 and 1/3 EXT4, even handier. :yes:

 

jaclaz



#8
pointertovoid

pointertovoid

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 466 posts
  • Joined 16-January 09

Go NTFS if you can, which nearly means, if no Linux nor camera must use the card.

If a file write goes wrong - not uncommon with removeable media - you lose one file with NTFS, but many or all with FAT32.

Also, NTFS aligns naturally the clusters on Flash lines and pages if starting the volume at 1MiB boundaries, while Fat32 alignment is difficult.



#9
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

If a file write goes wrong - not uncommon with removeable media - you lose one file with NTFS, but many or all with FAT32.

Hmmm. :unsure:
Apodictical/anecdotal at it's best. :(

Also, NTFS aligns naturally the clusters on Flash lines and pages if starting the volume at 1MiB boundaries, while Fat32 alignment is difficult.

Not really, we have a tool doing it (JFYI) :yes::
http://reboot.pro/to...-under-windows/
http://reboot.pro/to...-memory-drives/
 
jaclaz

#10
pointertovoid

pointertovoid

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 466 posts
  • Joined 16-January 09

Very nice! At that time

http://www.msfn.org/...n-its-clusters/

I had to try many alignments by hand, guessing the proper correction by Atto's curve aspect.

An automatic tool for it is readlly welcome. Well done!



#11
submix8c

submix8c

    Inconceivable!

  • Patrons
  • 4,338 posts
  • Joined 14-September 05
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

(snicker...) It's been around for quite some time. ;)


Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

Posted Image


#12
Ponch

Ponch

    MSFN Junkie

  • Patrons
  • 3,291 posts
  • Joined 23-November 05
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

A cousin of mine has a USB hard disk that is roughly 1/3 NTFS, 1/3 FAT32 and 1/3 EXT4, even handier. :yes:

The downside is that (statistically) you end up with 1/3 of the free space in each partition and that can potentially be an annoyance when your drive fills up and you need to shift big amounts of data.



#13
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

 

A cousin of mine has a USB hard disk that is roughly 1/3 NTFS, 1/3 FAT32 and 1/3 EXT4, even handier. :yes:

The downside is that (statistically) you end up with 1/3 of the free space in each partition and that can potentially be an annoyance when your drive fills up and you need to shift big amounts of data.

 

Nahh, that cousin of mine is a yute ;):
http://www.imdb.com/...?item=qt0404568
that uses the stick just to avoid loosing his keys, all partitions on it are empty. :w00t:

If it was not clear :unsure:, that cousin is a fictional character that I invented only to reply to the purely anecdotal contribution by NixFix. :whistle:

jaclaz


Edited by jaclaz, 22 March 2014 - 06:34 AM.


#14
MHz

MHz

    Just simple

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,656 posts
  • Joined 02-August 04
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Fat32? No master file table. Reminds me of having a faster internet connection over a decade ago. My hope in the human race is way past lost. :(



#15
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Fat32? No master file table. Reminds me of having a faster internet connection over a decade ago. My hope in the human race is way past lost. :(

So, something that has worked for at least 15 years (within it's limitations) is to be replaced by NTFS even when there is no need whatsoever of the NTFS features?

Isn't it surprising that exFAT is still FAT (and not MFT) based? :unsure:

 

jaclaz



#16
MHz

MHz

    Just simple

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,656 posts
  • Joined 02-August 04
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

jaclaz,

 

98 to ME was enough FAT32 for me. Thanks, but I do not like using FAT as any FAT file system is very old, outdated technology. Mind you, NTFS is not the only MFT file system around as you might already know. I do not want to go into the what could be when the current powers disagree.



#17
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Thanks, but I do not like using FAT as any FAT file system is very old, outdated technology

Sure :), the wheel also is very old, simple technology, just as an example traveling on an air cushion is definitely superior, yet the number of hovercrafts around is surprisingly low.

 

"Old" not necessarily means "outdated", and as a matter of fact the most recent (new, updated) technologies, which are EFI/UEFI and GPT, strangely enough make use of a FAT filesystem in order to actually boot a PC:

http://en.wikipedia....ystem_partition
 

Mind you, NTFS is not the only MFT file system around as you might already know.

No, I am unaware of these other filesystems. :blushing:

Which other options do we have? :unsure:
 
 
jaclaz



#18
MHz

MHz

    Just simple

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,656 posts
  • Joined 02-August 04
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

I do not understand these responses. I expected something better, jaclaz. I am not sure if you are joking or being serious.

 

Technology is withheld. Vehicles that can run on water and emit H2O out the exhaust as waste, or can run on air i.e. free energy etc. that go missing. So a expensive hovercraft that runs on fossil fuels is the comparison? Tesla military weapons based on technology about a century old are just being utilized. Something very odd is going on.

 

GPT is the solution to the 32 bit bios limit of 2TB. What has the FAT file system got to with that? <sarcasm>Making FAT work with GPT, oh, a miracle</sarcasm>. I hope the sarcasm is not an insult to you, but a wake up call. The 2TB barrier was bound to be breached no matter what file system is involved. Technology usually follows the flow of like a water tap that drips. Just a gradual change, just for a nice gradual profit.

 

Have a look at other file systems. FAT is as old as Win 9x kept alive by a corporation. Profit! Profit! Profit! Did I assert the word Profit enough? I am guilty of sarcasm again with the profit thing though profit is good, right? Good logic must be bad in comparison perhaps.

 

Your options could be to sacifice what you usually want, to be different. I choose my path, not well liking to my desire though you can too. You mentioning the wheel seems to have little relation in a reply to me with this particular topic of technology. Donuts instead of wheels could have been used. I am guilty of sarcasm again. You may have tickled me some to have brought it on.



#19
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Personally I use mostly NTFS filesystems on my machines/devices, when/where I see a good use for them, but do avoid spitting on older FAT filesystems and actually use them when there are reasons that justify their use.

 

I mean BOTH filesystems are not (and cannot be) a one-size-fits-all solution for *any* problem.

 

If you could provide some suggestion for other MFT based filesystems, as I already asked you, I am willing to experiment with them. :)

 

From a purely theoretical standpoint, I would like to have an alternative "simpler" filesystem (for storage only) with only some of the "good" (imho) features of NTFS, such as having the $MFT (and hence the possibility of really fast file searching) and larger than 4 Gb filesize without the (still IMHO) unneeded overhead, like permissions, quotas, "ownership".

 

 

jaclaz


Edited by jaclaz, 22 March 2014 - 12:25 PM.


#20
MHz

MHz

    Just simple

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,656 posts
  • Joined 02-August 04
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag
From a purely theoretical standpoint, I would like to have an alternative "simpler" filesystem (for storage only) with only some of the "good" (imho) features of NTFS, such as having the $MFT (and hence the possibility of really fast file searching) and larger than 4 Gb filesize without the (still IMHO) unneeded overhead, like permissions, quotas, "ownership".

Me too. You want some features without the extra stuff. Most modern file systems do this and more i.e ZFS, NTFS, EXT 2,3,4, BTRFS, REISERFS... I am not sure if quotas are as low level as the file system. As for ownership as you quoted is interesting, as each file created is stamped with a number for that user for purpose of "ownership", permissions, quota etc could be nice if you did not want to be tracked local, by intranet or by internet. The number is supposedly unquie worldwide. Like a digital fingerprint. I am not aware of any file system that does this tailored exact to your specifications.



#21
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,593 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

I would say that quotas are intrinsically part of the filesystem and low-level enough, but I may well be wrong on this.

 

Still no suggestions for alternate MFT based filesystems. :(

 

jaclaz



#22
Ponch

Ponch

    MSFN Junkie

  • Patrons
  • 3,291 posts
  • Joined 23-November 05
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

 

 

A cousin of mine has a USB hard disk that is roughly 1/3 NTFS, 1/3 FAT32 and 1/3 EXT4, even handier. :yes:

The downside is that (statistically) you end up with 1/3 of the free space in each partition and that can potentially be an annoyance when your drive fills up and you need to shift big amounts of data.

 

If it was not clear :unsure:, that cousin is a fictional character that I invented only to reply to the purely anecdotal contribution by NixFix. :whistle:
 

I knew that. My point was about the partitioning, not about your fictional cousin. :whistle:






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users