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JodyT

I Need to Confess ... Regarding Windows 8.1

41 posts in this topic

I'm just a big fan of those hybrid notebook-tablet devices. I can't see any OS other than Windows 8/8.1 that can be used on them and offer such a wide functionality (maybe except for full Linux distributions such as Ubuntu Touch but they're still not mainstream).

I like those too. What I would like to know is were there any tablet/netbook hybrids that would run Windows 7? What about the ARM devices that run Chrome OS? Could they run a Windows OS?

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ARM devices can only run WindowsRT, but there the missing drivers are the issue.

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I personally can't really see any benefits of buying an ARM-based Windows RT tablet. As far as I know, there's no significant difference in battery life between the ARM CPUs and the new Intel Atom models. For me the ability to run x86 programs is one of the most important reasons for buying a Windows 8 tablet :P

Even if you jailbreak a Windows RT tablet and run x86 applications through the emulator, everything is going to be extremely slow.

Edited by tomasz86
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I tried Windows 8 during beta and wasn't impressed with the fact that Microsoft removed the Start Menu completely from the system. Seriously. There is a Start Menu in most every OS on the market and it's by far one of the most heavily used tools for an OS, and for a NON-TABLET / NON-TOUCHSCREEN device... it's tedious to navigate without it. But, then, I discovered Stardocks Start8 and coughed up the $6 for unlimited updates to a seemless replication of the Start Menu and still have doubts about Windows 8 though, I have noticed that vmware seems to run very sluggish and often hangs the host computer in Windows 8 compared to Windows 7. In Windows 7 I was capabale of running 4 vm's simutaniously, but in Windows 8 I can only run 1 vm, not to mention I had dwm.exe disabled on Windows 7, but you can't disable it in Windows 8 and I've seen dwm.exe spike to over 2gigs of mem in 8.

Personally, I think Windows 7 is faster in some areas, granted that UAC, dwm.exe and a few other services are disabled.

I tried 8.1 and wasn't impressed with the so-called "Start Menu" is back, useless Metro (ought to be a feature to turn on/off) a blatent ripoff of Apples menu, useless and annoying apps that are forced fullscreen and no option to resize them (ought to be a feature to turn on/off, and/or COMPLETELY remove them), So I'm still using Windows 8 with Start8 until Microsoft gets their heads out of their sundontshine.

In all I'd give Windows 8/8.1 a 6 out of 10. Despite the fact that they blatently ignored the dominant market, home / office desktop users. Absolutely see no way how anyone can be productive with business applications and me heavily using Revit for work , school and my other apps without the desktop and start menu. Seriously, what were they thinking when they wanted to do away with the "Desktop" and "Start Menu" ... I'd say Microsoft has the most unaware project manager ever.

Edited by epic
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I think VMware takes advantage of some shortcuts when your guest OS is the same as your parent OS. I noticed my Windows 8.x VMs sped up when I upgraded my host system to Windows 8.1.

-Noel

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I tried Windows 8 during beta and wasn't impressed with the fact that Microsoft removed the Start Menu completely from the system. Seriously. There is a Start Menu in most every OS on the market and it's by far one of the most heavily used tools for an OS, and for a NON-TABLET / NON-TOUCHSCREEN device... it's tedious to navigate without it. But, then, I discovered Stardocks Start8 and coughed up the $6 for unlimited updates to a seemless replication of the Start Menu and still have doubts about Windows 8 though, I have noticed that vmware seems to run very sluggish and often hangs the host computer in Windows 8 compared to Windows 7. In Windows 7 I was capabale of running 4 vm's simutaniously, but in Windows 8 I can only run 1 vm, not to mention I had dwm.exe disabled on Windows 7, but you can't disable it in Windows 8 and I've seen dwm.exe spike to over 2gigs of mem in 8.

Personally, I think Windows 7 is faster in some areas, granted that UAC, dwm.exe and a few other services are disabled.

I tried 8.1 and wasn't impressed with the so-called "Start Menu" is back, useless Metro (ought to be a feature to turn on/off) a blatent ripoff of Apples menu, useless and annoying apps that are forced fullscreen and no option to resize them (ought to be a feature to turn on/off, and/or COMPLETELY remove them), So I'm still using Windows 8 with Start8 until Microsoft gets their heads out of their sundontshine.

In all I'd give Windows 8/8.1 a 6 out of 10. Despite the fact that they blatently ignored the dominant market, home / office desktop users. Absolutely see no way how anyone can be productive with business applications and me heavily using Revit for work , school and my other apps without the desktop and start menu. Seriously, what were they thinking when they wanted to do away with the "Desktop" and "Start Menu" ... I'd say Microsoft has the most unaware project manager ever.

First off, I hate it too, but I don't think Metro is going anywhere. Microsoft needs to compete with Apple and Google, and though I think they will lose the battle, they need to be seen as doing something to attract the phone and tablet markets. Even though corporate business is their core market, they are not the progressive business that will allow Microsoft to move ahead. It's kind of like how Asa Dolzer of Mozilla frowns on business because they want longer acceptance periods of standardization than the rapid release cycle allows, whereas Asa wants to appeal to those who want the latest and greatest. Unfortunately, Microsoft feels they need to appeal to the same bunch.

.

Second point is, I really wonder if the "dominant" market constitues those of us who want to stick with more traditional Explorer type applications. Those of us who do tend to want to stick with XP or windows 7. That doesn't translate into sales. Windows 8 hopefully does, but I don't think the desktop really represents the future (it will become a niche really). I think that for most people, the upgrade path has benn Windows XP to the iPad or perhaps Android as a close second. Newer versions of Windows don't even register to younger people now for the large part. And Microsoft needs to clawback and get a least a bite of that tablet pie.

Edited by JodyThornton
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I think that for most people, the upgrade path has benn Windows XP to the iPad or perhaps Android as a close second.

Please, check your edition of the dictionary, for some strange reasons your copy has the definitions for upgrade and downgrade exchanged.

As a general reference:

  • You upgrade when you can do MORE things OR the SAME things in a more convenient way.
  • You downgrade when you can do LESS things OR the SAME things in a less convenient way.

jaclaz

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OK Jaclaz (very funny). You surely must've relaized that I meant "Migrational" path. However, since you want to take the converstation there; for those that were inclined to go that XP to tablet route, they may see the lack of obstrusive and heavy hardware as an "upgrade" to their lifestyle, so for them, it is an upgrade. They may see it as, I no longer need a monstrosity of an OS and a full featured desktop or notebook PC to survive anymore. To them, that's an upgrade.

Excuse me while I look up "semantics" in that dictionary of mine...lol :P

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Well, as an example I have convinced my mom (in her eighties) to get an iPad, and she is very happy about it (and so am I).

The device completely (and in a very simple way) fulfills her needs/desires which are:

  1. sending and receiving e-mails
  2. taking pictures (and sending them to friends and relatives)
  3. browsing the internet for information
  4. play a handful of simple "word" games (like scrabble and ruzzle) online
  5. post on her facebook account and comment/like on other people's facebook posts/profiles
  6. use Skype or similar to communicate

So, a tablet actually made her "upgrade" from "non-connected" to (mainly) "connected content user" :yes:.

I have an architect friend that also has got an iPad (and it's great to be able on the very portable thingy to be able to view and annotate Autocad drawings), and now she has also a nice 8-running largish tablet, but try to actually create an Autocad drawing using the touch interface (and not a mouse or a graphic tablet) and come back telling me it is an upgrade.

As well, try telling me that Office 2007 or 2010 are upgrades to Office 2003 :whistle::

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/170424-using-office-2003-with-vista-x64-sp2-after-april/?p=1064572

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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My wife wouldn't touch technical things - a bit like your mom, jaclaz. Last Christmas (2012) I got her an iPad. At first it intimidated her, but she really got to like it. Now she uses it all the time, even while away from home. For her it was a huge upgrade to move from always asking me to look stuff up or type things and feeling disconnected from the world to having full access to it. Of course she doesn't produce much data, she just consumes. But that's all she wants.

By contrast, as a software company principal I'm in front of a powerful workstation all day and often well into the night. I had a beautifully set up Windows 7 environment, but I wanted to keep current so I set out to determine whether Windows 8.1 really could be made into a dynamite desktop development environment. At first I worked with Windows 8 / 8.1 on virtual machines, then I ultimately moved my host system up to 8.1 (with the byproduct being my having written a great book on how to do it), and I'm very happy with it now. After having tweaked it, it's every bit as good as Windows 7 for all my needs.

I don't wish to come across as a Microsoft lover because I'm not. I think the direction they're taking stinks, and the reason we're still able to use the latest releases is that they've simply neglected to delete all the good functionality - yet. I'm just a happy camper because I've discovered how to reconstitute virtually all of the capability Windows 7 had in Windows 8.1. I'm here to tell you it's possible.

-Noel

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As well, try telling me that Office 2007 or 2010 are upgrades to Office 2003 :whistle::

Heh, I'm trialing Office 365.

My eyes hurt. :crazy:

Beyond that, I was surprised to see that all they've done in 10 years was rearrange the deck chairs. It's really no more functional that my Office 2003 was.

-Noel

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Heh, I'm trialing Office 365.

My eyes hurt. :crazy:

Beyond that, I was surprised to see that all they've done in 10 years was rearrange the deck chairs. It's really no more functional that my Office 2003 was.

This really depends...

I also use Office 2003 on my desktop PC and it's fine... but have you tried to use Office 2003 on a touch screen and navigate with fingers? I have and can say that it was almost unusable. The main problem wasn't the UI which obviously isn't optimised for touch but rather the lack of smooth scrolling. When trying to scroll with touch the screen just kept jumping instead of moving slowly making it very difficult to move across different parts of the file. In case of Office 2013 there's no such problem.

The UI changes are rather controversial but it's not that bad once you've changed the theme (I prefer the dark gray one).

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Yeah, I use "dark" gray too, but it's not very contrasty, and I'm not all that fond of overall bright workspaces.

It's a shame Microsoft chose to ignore their own desktop theme, even such as it is, as BigMuscle's Aero Glass can't improve the look of the Office applications as much. And it's not like ribbon-enabled windows HAVE to eschew the theme. File Explorer and Wordpad do okay.

Looks like Avast! antivirus followed the Office team's lead too. Sigh. Who thinks borderless windows that have almost no contrast are better, really?

-Noel

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I hate all Theme options of Office 2013 and now use LibreOffice most of the time.

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Beyond that, I was surprised to see that all they've done in 10 years was rearrange the deck chairs. It's really no more functional that my Office 2003 was.

Well, cannot say about Office 365, but if you want an example on how - while re-arranging the deck chairs in 2007 AND in 2010 - they LOST a (sometimes VERY useful) function, here is an example:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/155923-any-way-to-cannibalize-the-windows-2000-mouse-driver/?p=1000166

jaclaz

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I hate all Theme options of Office 2013 and now use LibreOffice most of the time.

I opted for Kingsoft Office 2012 and I really like it.

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