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Opera 15/18/20 Rant, Rave thread

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#1
epic

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Personally, I think Opera is going in the wrong direction. Opera held a very unique position in the browser market. Users has the ability to customize tab location (tiles: verticle, horizontal, etc), ability to customize the entire browser look, and the list goes on. No other browser on the market could tile and organize tabs as Opera could. 

 

With the release of Opera 15, sadly these features are no more. Thus... forcing users that want those features to use old outdated versions of Opera.

 

My spew... Opera 15/20 is s***. It's hogwash. The Opera development team blatently took code from the Chromium engine and labeled it Opera. Removed features that were VERY useful (tiled tabs, etc.). Seriously... MUTIPLE TABS TILED VERTICAL / HORIZONTAL helped in business... being able to monitor multiple routers and scripts at home from multiple sources all at once, WITHOUT having to tab over to the next tab. Ludicrus! So now, in order to achieve the aforementioned, I'll need to have 6-8+ Opera.exe's open (Hmmm Memory hog!! guess I'll have to get 64gb of memory), instead of the 1 browser and 6-8+ tabs.

 

 

 

1. TILED TABS (Opera 12.16)

  • Very productive browser.
  • When at work... tiled tabs could be reach 16+ on a 46" monitor, monitoring mission critical data.

 

1z39c03.png

 

 

 

2. TILED TABS (Opera 12.16)

  • Screencapture doesn't do any justice to show how useful tiled tabs are.
  • More complex setup, better views at higher resolutions and large displays.
    Res: 1920 x 1200, 2560 x 1600, +
  • Opera Developers were developing a very unique platform

 

2wef4uh.png

 

 

 

3. Tab Options (Opera 12.16)

  • AWESOME LAYOUTS!
  • Need I say more?!

 

11jpson.png

 

 

 

4. SETTINGS  (Opera 12.16)

  • Preference panel was useful.

 

2niv3wo.png

 

 

 

5.  Opera 18.0 (Opera 15, original Chromium release)

  • Notice the waste of monitor space (white space)... no need to have settings horribly spread out. Very poor project management.
  • Tabs are the same as every other browser out there.
  • No Windows within Windows... no tiles... no cascading...

 

2vkeut1.png

 

 

 

6. TAB OPTIONS  (Opera 18.0)

  • No options to tile tabs.
  • Create folders for tabs.
  • Customize tabs.
  • Etc, etc.. etc.....

 

2ik370m.png

 

 

 

7. SETTINGS  (Opera 18.0)

  • Notice the waste of monitor space (white space)... no need to have settings horribly spread out. Very poor project management.
  • Officially talking about LAZY OPERA DEVELOERS.

 

4jtj43.png

 

 

 

Certainly Opera is catering to the Tablet market and, again, ignoring the business and home user who use browsers entirely different than a tablet user ever would. The same concept Microsoft has done when implementing Metro and removing the Start Menu from the Operating System. Metro is useless in the business Market and has no value what-so-ever, the same for the home user (IMO), Metro is a tablet feature only and should have been introduced and developed that way only and packaged as a feature that users could add or remove from the system. Anyway, this thread isn't a Windows 8/8.1 rant.

 

 

 

Opera is done in my book. IMHO. Guess I'll have to use the last version before this terrible upgrade, unless Opera developers decide to clean up the interface and implement useful features into newer versions.

 

 

 

Edit: Typos


Edited by epic, 07 February 2014 - 11:32 AM.



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#2
vinifera

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I even wouldn't be so much against "new" Opera if they optimized the **** program itself

this way it behaves exactly as Chrome/Iron, and what bugs me about it/them is:

 

 

1.

each added extension (plugin) consumes the same amount of RAM as original Process (app)

so if Opera by default takes 100 MB RAM, and you add 5 miserable plugins, they will cost you 500 MB + 100 MB of Opera (no tabs)

and for what ? , simple plugin as "add download button" to UI takes 100 MB - fantastic

 

I'd rather shoot myself in foot than buying extra 4 Gig's of RAM for this monster, and this worths for Chrome too

 

 

2.

they call it modern and optimized browser, but it only works fluidly on multi core CPU's, single core ones choke on it

is that what is modern these days ? to be unoptimized piece of crap that simply forces people to buy new machine/parts ?

 

using webkit fork aka Blink which I'd rather call Snail doesn't excuse them from having such sluggish browser
one my personaly favored ALSO based on webkit is QtWeb, that one is light, portable (bit sucks their forums are fubar but oh well)
BUT its also based on webkit and is updated accordingly, so if THEY can have ultra light browser that uses webkit, why can't Opera too ???

 

as I understand, but maybe I was dropped on head who knows... Layout engine and Shell (which is actually app with hooks to Layout engine) are NOT TOGETHER !!!!


Edited by vinifera, 09 January 2014 - 09:43 AM.

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#3
tomasz86

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Certainly Opera is catering to the Tablet market and, again, ignoring the business and home user who use browsers entirely different than a tablet user ever would.


Why do you think so? Not that I like the current UI but in my opinion it's very FAR from being optimised for touch. I've used a lot of browsers on touch screen devices (Android and Windows) and the best experience was offered by... Metro IE. It's the only browser that I can say to be fully optimised for touch. You use gestures to navigate, can switch between tiled tabs very easily, etc. All of the other ones feel like modified desktop versions where some elements are bigger, others removed but in the end you still need to click (tap) on very small area to navigate.

What I mean is this:

1. Chrome (Android). There are a lot of small elements used for navigation. This isn't something I'd call touch optimised.

T1Mi7iFl.jpg


2. Firefox (Android). Better than Chrome but still buttons are too small and too close to each other to navigate comfortably with fingers.

x7xSqrfl.jpg


Now look at Metro IE. This is something that's really nice to be used with touch.

ipKeE4Ql.jpg


All in all, I don't think the changes inside Opera have anything to do with the tablet market...
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#4
tomasz86

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By the way, in my opinion one of the biggest advantages of the new Opera over Chrome (and other clones) is the fact that mouse gestures are built in the browser and work on both external and internal pages. It means that you can use mouse gestures to open / close any tab, including Speed Dial or settings. This is actually one of the main reasons why I just can't use Chrome comfortably on desktop, as I rely primarily on mouse gestures when browsing the Web.

In Chrome mouse gestures are available only as an extension, and extensions are disabled on internal pages completely. As a result, with mouse gestures you can open a new tab when viewing a Web site but can't close that new tab with them. Mouse gestures also don't work when pages are being loaded (you need to wait until the loading has completed). This is extremely annoying for someone who has always relied on gestures, starting from old Opera and later in Firefox (in Fx extensions work everywhere).
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#5
Octopuss

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I used Opera since like... 2003. I was always mostly happy with it, even thought in last two years I got more and more fed up with certain websites not being displayed properly, and certain functionalities not working. BUT when I tried v15 (is that where they switched to Chrome? I think so), I was horrified. It was the final drop that made me try Firefox after years of being refusive of it, and my life quality went up by like 500% that day.

 

Honestly, Opera is not walking in wrong direction. It is already flushed down a toilet.



#6
CharlotteTheHarlot

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epic ... great job in the top post  :thumbup

 

Opera devs lost their minds years ago. It began IMHO when the Opera forum threads began to get prowled by NuOpera fanboys who shutdown every complaint. Every mistake they made was addressed by users in threads, but ignored thanks to their enablers killing the discussion by trolling the complainers and getting threads locked.

 

The best we can hope for is for them to fork off the 12.x desktop source code to another group or release it to the community as public domain.

 

EDIT: clarity


Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 19 January 2014 - 10:14 AM.

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#7
mooms

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Also:

When Opera is updated/update itself, it create a new subfolder with version number in its directory and keep the previous version "just in case"...

As a consequence, software firewalls needs two news rules each time Opera is updated: one for the updated updater (sound silly isn't it ?) and one for the browser...

 

 

Once Opera is started, lsass.exe wants to connect on Internet (Win7 x64). It never occurs before, and don't occur after.

 

 

 

I had Opera installed for years, even if it wasn't my main browser I always found it great.

I had tried version 16, 17, 18, then uninstalled for good.

 

If they wanted to kill Opera, that's a success.



#8
vinifera

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I love this crap from their "desktop blog"

 

 

 

 

On the eve of the New Year, we will take a quick look back at the 60 releases we have had in 2013 since moving to the new release model:


4 major Opera releases
11 Opera maintenance releases
27 Opera Next releases
18 Opera Developer releases

 

lulz...

60 releases of garbage

and 4 major releases of nonsense


Edited by vinifera, 22 January 2014 - 03:37 PM.

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#9
Octopuss

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epic ... great job in the top post  :thumbup

 

Opera devs lost their minds years ago. It began IMHO when the Opera forum threads began to get prowled by NuOpera fanboys who shutdown every complaint. Every mistake they made was addressed by users in threads, but ignored thanks to their enablers killing the discussion by trolling the complainers and getting threads locked.

 

The best we can hope for is for them to fork off the 12.x desktop source code to another group or release it to the community as public domain.

 

EDIT: clarity

Haha, you reminded me how I got permanently banned from Opera forums after repeatedly complaining about some thing the changed over the course of v12 version history.



#10
CharlotteTheHarlot

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epic ... great job in the top post  :thumbup
 
Opera devs lost their minds years ago. It began IMHO when the Opera forum threads began to get prowled by NuOpera fanboys who shutdown every complaint. Every mistake they made was addressed by users in threads, but ignored thanks to their enablers killing the discussion by trolling the complainers and getting threads locked.
 
The best we can hope for is for them to fork off the 12.x desktop source code to another group or release it to the community as public domain.
 
EDIT: clarity

Haha, you reminded me how I got permanently banned from Opera forums after repeatedly complaining about some thing the changed over the course of v12 version history.


I hear you. I never got tossed but that's only because I would read my replies over and over before posting, and that's from knowing all about the trolls from experience. They just look for anything that can be twisted into a rule violation or controversy to kill legitimate discussion about Opera screwups. They are the lowest form of human beings, enablers that exist for no good reason, and act only as NuOpera fanboys. The parallel to the MicroZealot MetroTards at NeoWin and The Verge Tribe is astounding.

Most of these cretins were not even connected to Opera as far as I could tell. Their profiles didn't link to dev status ( unless they were sock puppets ). That leaves the only explanation as being worthless fanboys with nothing to do except for shutting down any discussion of Opera mistakes and thereby preventing any possibility of improvement. Video Fanboys killed the Radio Internet Star.

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#11
epic

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It's quite obvious that they're catering to tablet/touch devices, rather than the standard desktop user. They're also reducing overhead from having two different platforms of Opera and squeezing as much junk as they can into one browser for both mobile and desktop platforms into Chromium. Not to mention so-that-their-miniscuale-fanboy-crowd (couple dozen) could use and download apps from the cloud (that's another bs thing), app devs had to create different versions of their "cloud" apps to operate with the old Opera, and, obviously, the Opera developers couldn't implement those features in the Opera platform so they moved to Chromium. Chromium doesn't even have the ability to facilitate windows within windows, it's an entirely different engine. Opera had it and it was great.

 

"Chromium" is NOT Opera and never will be! Opera is an entirely different platform and the idiotic develoeprs at Opera ditched the platform.

 

 

 

 

 

Certainly Opera is catering to the Tablet market and, again, ignoring the business and home user who use browsers entirely different than a tablet user ever would.


Why do you think so? Not that I like the current UI but in my opinion it's very FAR from being optimised for touch. I've used a lot of browsers on touch screen devices (Android and Windows) and the best experience was offered by... Metro IE. It's the only browser that I can say to be fully optimised for touch. You use gestures to navigate, can switch between tiled tabs very easily, etc. All of the other ones feel like modified desktop versions where some elements are bigger, others removed but in the end you still need to click (tap) on very small area to navigate.

What I mean is this:

1. Chrome (Android). There are a lot of small elements used for navigation. This isn't something I'd call touch optimised.

T1Mi7iFl.jpg


2. Firefox (Android). Better than Chrome but still buttons are too small and too close to each other to navigate comfortably with fingers.

x7xSqrfl.jpg


Now look at Metro IE. This is something that's really nice to be used with touch.

ipKeE4Ql.jpg


All in all, I don't think the changes inside Opera have anything to do with the tablet market...

 


Edited by epic, 07 February 2014 - 11:19 AM.


#12
jaclaz

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Guys, go and sign the petition (if you haven't already):

http://www.msfn.org/...98se/?p=1067020

https://www.change.o...f-presto-engine

 

jaclaz



#13
tomasz86

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@epic

I still can't see any particular connection with the tablet market.

Opera has been always present in the mobile phone market, and in the past already had quite a large user base with its Opera Mini and Opera Mobile browsers. It's no surprise that they're focused on this market today too.

But tablets? Opera doesn't offer anything special for tablet users. In case of Android, the browser is no different than the phone version. In case of Windows, there's no touch optimised version of Opera available at all. The browser is exactly the same as when you use it with mouse and keyboard.
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#14
epic

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@epic

I still can't see any particular connection with the tablet market.

Opera has been always present in the mobile phone market, and in the past already had quite a large user base with its Opera Mini and Opera Mobile browsers. It's no surprise that they're focused on this market today too.

But tablets? Opera doesn't offer anything special for tablet users. In case of Android, the browser is no different than the phone version. In case of Windows, there's no touch optimised version of Opera available at all. The browser is exactly the same as when you use it with mouse and keyboard.

 

Do you know the differences between Presto and Chromium? If not delve in, differnces are quite obvious.
 

Opera hasn't always been present in mobile devices... they were dead last, even in alphas and betas. In short, without specific details, the order of appearance to the world: Safari, Chrome, Firefox, (Forks: Comodo, etc.), Opera.

 

You're also seeing this single-mindedly, Opera developers objective is to streamline NuCrap browser to the mobile world, NOT the desktop world, and piggy back their demise off of the success of the Chromium project instead of continueing to provide a UNIQUE browser to us consumers (By this I mean Opera Developers are lazy and mooching off of other developers successful platform for their pathetic success), Opera Developers could have stuck with Presto and made it BETTER, SLIMMER, MORE RESPONSIVE, but THEY CHOSE NOT TO, rather DITCH PRESTO.

 

There are no touched optimised versions because NuCrap hasn't done s*** to optimise the code until Chromium developers optimise it for them. I guarantee this is exactly what they are waiting for.

 

 

The browser is exactly the same as when you use it with mouse and keyboard.

 

You're failing to see the point. OR trolling. In fact, I believe you are, blatently spinning my words and suggesting I claimed NuCrap is totally Optimised for tablets, etc... obviously not understanding the point I'm making and know nothing about Presto and Chromium, and yet you bring Internet Explorer (Where the F.... did that come from?) into the discussion.

 

My original post was NOT about tablets, it is about a unique browser platform (Presto) which Opera decided to ditch in a impulsive manner and abandoned desktop/workstation users.


Edited by epic, 08 February 2014 - 12:17 PM.


#15
jaclaz

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epic, 

maybe you are taking tomasz86's reply the "wrong way", before accusing someone of trolling, you may want to take a couple deep breaths or making a good walk outside and cool down a bit :).

 

Historically Opera was Shareware/Ad supported, *always* had a "mobile" version (besides a "vertical" OEM one) and became free when they started presumably selling the "mobile" versions.

 

The "switch" happened in the second half of September 2005:

17/09/2005

https://web.archive.....opera.com/buy/

23/09/2005:

https://web.archive.....opera.com/buy/

https://web.archive....opera.com/free/

 

Of course the targeted devices for the Mobile versions were what was available at the time, Symbian, Windows Mobile, etc.

But, if there was something similar to a tablet, it was the ARCHOS WiFi-enabled Pocket Media Assistant PMA400 which was in the "Home media" section:

https://web.archive....ucts/homemedia/

https://web.archive..../en/2005/01/11/

 

So, whatever caused the (BTW wrong) decision to ditch the Presto engine in favour of the (stupid) Chromium, it doesn't not seemingly come from people that are willing to enter the tablet market for the first time, as they are among the ones that were there before anyone else.

 

jaclaz



#16
vinifera

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Opera founder von Tetzchner: It's all gone to crap since I quit


http://www.theregist...l_gone_to_crap/


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#17
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Opera founder von Tetzchner: It's all gone to crap since I quit

http://www.theregist...l_gone_to_crap/

 

Thanks for the link. To quote Metallica, it's sad but true.

 

EDIT: typo


Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 09 February 2014 - 04:37 AM.

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#18
epic

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epic, 

maybe you are taking tomasz86's reply the "wrong way", before accusing someone of trolling

 

jaclaz

 

Hmmm, not really. He really sounds like another Pesala from the Opera forums. Pesala is a total buffoon.

 

 

 

Opera founder von Tetzchner: It's all gone to crap since I quit

http://www.theregist...l_gone_to_crap/

 

Right, he knows it.

 

Developers moving on to rely on Chromium as the Opera engine are total idiots. Not only that, it proves the fact that these developers are nothing but lazy s***bags. They've dug Opera's fate into the ground, by listening to, single minded drones, Pesala, and not the actual users of the software.

 

Presto is/was awesome, if Opera had listened to the consumers Presto would still be around and BUGS FIXED and full of USABLE features.


Edited by epic, 20 February 2014 - 02:37 AM.


#19
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Notice the waste of monitor space (white space)... no need to have settings horribly spread out.

I have not yet seen anybody complain about this, apart from me. But that is true. The Settings 'page' also covers the entire screen, and doesn't allow me to review the issue on the tab underneath it, as a compact dialog 'window' would.

But there is a deeper reason to the white space: The guys on the photo are jumping off a cliff, and need to feel light and unconstrained.

A few people on the now defunct Opera forums felt licensed to proclaim that this new UI is "life" that everyone has to "deal with", and the new wasteful Metro/Web UI is replacing windows just because.
 

one my personaly favored ALSO based on webkit is QtWeb, that one is light, portable

My favorite WebKit browser still is the new Opium, because it's portable unlike Chrome, and there isn't an alternative that felt native on Windows, using dialogs instead of slow (or extremely) web pages for everything. Such as the Sleipnir Browser, which dialogs and menus opened so slowly on single core, that I forgot the command that I was looking for, being accustomed to browse through all the dialogs quickly.

No alternative.. yet. For those who haven't heard, Otter Browser, a WebKit based product aiming to implement most functionality found in Opera, is in development. It's not usable yet.

Edited by j7n, 07 March 2014 - 02:10 PM.


#20
whocares02

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I have no faith in all the webkit-spinoffs. Remember when firefox was new on the web? Until the 3.x-version there were dozens of mozilla-powered browsers. They popped up everywhere. Now, a few years later, there's almost nothing left. Most projects are discontinued. I miss konqueror with good ol' konqueror-engine. Opera getting chrome-code included is no surprise at all. They made a mistake 10 years ago already, when joining with google. It will destroy the project. In the end two google-browsers will be "too much for the users".


Edited by whocares02, 06 April 2014 - 03:09 AM.





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