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Windows 2000 on Haswell?

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#76
bearwindows

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Find some important stuff: when in Windows 2000/XP/2003 you are using /3GB switch ( http://technet.micro...=exchg.65).aspx ) in boot.ini - Intel's HD Graphics Drivers stops working. Hope this helps.


Edited by bearwindows, 07 October 2014 - 04:49 AM.

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#77
blackwingcat

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The wmi structure is used by many functions, so if we create its patch , too much job.

Would it be easier to patch usbvideo.sys that it believes in dual wmi structure und loads webcam?


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#78
JosefReisinger

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Sorry for the misunderstanding: I meant: to patch usbvideo.sys that it works with w2k wmi structure or even works without wmi at all. I thought this could be done by wiping the wmi calls out of the usbvideo.sys file, so it works like it "believes" xp wmi structure would exist. In this case, no other drivers or kernel should be modded, only usbvideo.sys.

Another approach is perhaps to give up UVC / usbvideo.sys and use usbcamd2.sys. I found no problems with this file in dependency walker, but usbvideo.inf cannot be used for install. Is there a general INF file available which could be used for trying usbcamd2.sys?

Third possibility: Generally, I find it very interesting, that original w2k usbaudio.sys works perfectly with UVC (I installed external usb web cam with microphone, audio works), but usbvideo.sys is not present in w2k. Perhaps an early xp beta version of usbvideo.sys could work in w2k? (I tried yet: 5.1.2600.2180, 5512 and  6425).



#79
JosefReisinger

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I managed to boot with halmps.dll and ntkrpamp.exe in pae mode on intel i7 haswell notebook after copying kernel files ntdll.dll and kernel32.dll from driver.cab into w2k system. Now, taskmgr shows two processors instead of one. The system is working, but ps2 mouse and keyboard don´t work. Attaching external usb mouse works. Internal mouse shows ressource conflict with IRQ 12, which affects keyboard, too , but I cannot change the irq configuration, although I´m in standard pc - mode. Furthermore, there are some strange irq enumerations with irq 112, I never saw three-digit irq numbers before in w2k.


Edited by JosefReisinger, 14 October 2014 - 02:17 PM.


#80
JosefReisinger

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Additional: the system will not boot any longer in safe mode with halmps, it hangs up.



#81
JosefReisinger

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Success update: After changing devmgr Computer-type into MPS Multiprocessor PC, the system also boots successfully into safe mode. This has to be done manually after copying multiprocessor hal and kernel files.

Success update 2: After deactivation of ps/2 mouse in device manager the internal keyboard works again. So the only thing which has to be given up for the gain of multiprocessor system in pae mode on intel i7 haswell notebook is internal ps2 touchpad (I use external usb mouse now). This could be the reason why windows 2000 refused to install in multiprocessor mode - it did not find mouse.

After this, I tried to change hal into halmacpi, but this did not work again. Lets wait and see...

Greetings Joe



#82
jaclaz

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Success update: After changing devmgr Computer-type into MPS Multiprocessor PC, the system also boots successfully into safe mode. This has to be done manually after copying multiprocessor hal and kernel files.

Success update 2: After deactivation of ps/2 mouse in device manager the internal keyboard works again. So the only thing which has to be given up for the gain of multiprocessor system in pae mode on intel i7 haswell notebook is internal ps2 touchpad (I use external usb mouse now). This could be the reason why windows 2000 refused to install in multiprocessor mode - it did not find mouse.

After this, I tried to change hal into halmacpi, but this did not work again. Lets wait and see...

Greetings Joe

Very good :thumbup

 

The conflict on the PS/2 port is "strange", however traditionally 2K has a tendency (whenever *anything* is not exactly as it expects) to start creating "crazy" IRQ/resources conflicts (often very difficult to solve, if possible at all).

 

jaclaz



#83
JosefReisinger

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Thanks!

Really strange! PS/2 port mouse complains about "IRQ 12 not available", but irq shared UAA bus driver for high definition audio has no problem with irq 12. Also deactivation of UAA bus driver does not change the behavior of ps2 mouse.



#84
jaclaz

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Thanks!

Really strange! PS/2 port mouse complains about "IRQ 12 not available", but irq shared UAA bus driver for high definition audio has no problem with irq 12. Also deactivation of UAA bus driver does not change the behavior of ps2 mouse.

IRQ issues are very tough to pinpoint and troubleshoot, there are so many variables in the *whatever* that causes their assignments that it is often impossible to solve them, especially on a laptop as usually these have a somehow "reduced/locked" BIOS and of course you can not make experiments disconnecting/recoonecting cards/devices.

Usually (but not always) the "internal" PS/2 pointing device is "connected" with the keyboard (and that would be IRQ1

http://www.sebsworld...ation/?page=IRQ

this would explain why the PS/2 internal device "locks" *somehow* the keyboard. :unsure:

 

jaclaz



#85
JosefReisinger

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Jaclaz,

you are right, keyboard and mouse are somehow connected. If I try to change mouse driver, message comes up: "this will also affect keyboard". With standard or MPS Hal, keyboard gets irq 1 and mouse gets irq 12. Furthermore, irq sharing is also present with standard pc hal, although irq 1 and irq 12 are not shared.

I have irq's in standard-pc mode: 1->keyboard, 3-> shared: PCI Expressroot port #3, realtek pcie lan, Intel 8 SMbus Controller 9C22, Intel 8 Series Thermal 9C24, 4-> standard pci to usb enhanced host controller, 5-> UAA Busdriver for HDA, 6-> floppy disk controller, 11 (shared) -> UAA Busdriver for HDA, Intel8 Series Thermal 0A03, Intel 8 USB extensible host controller, PCI Express Root Port #1 and #5.

Now - funny - look at the irq's with mps hal:

1 - shared: Cardreader, keyboard

6 -floppy disk controller

12 - shared: UAA Busdriver, PS/2 mouse

16 - Intel 8 Series Thermal 0A03

80 - USB extensible host controller

108- UAA Busdriver for HDA

112 - shared: PCI Express Root Port #1 and #5

114 - PCI Express Root Port #3

115 - PCI Express Root Port #4

116 - USB Enhanced Host Controller

125 - SATA AHCI Controlller

126 - shared: SMBus Controller, Intel 8 Series Thermal 9C24

 

So it is definetly a HAL problem.

 

I found out, that w2k can also be installed in MPS mode on intel i7 haswell notebook, if external usb mouse present and winnt.sif changed to find usb in txtmode setup.

 

Greetings, Joe



#86
jaclaz

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So it is definetly a HAL problem.

Sure the HAL is "involved in it", but I believe that it is only one of the variables in the equation. :unsure:

 

jaclaz


Edited by jaclaz, 16 October 2014 - 12:31 PM.


#87
dencorso

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HAL is a part of the problem indeed. Lack of proper ACPI driver is another, perhaps bigger part.
halmps.exe is designed for an MPS 1.4 / APIC platform: that means APM, but no ACPI... See also this.

Now, that's a relevant discovery Josef's persistence has brought us: let's explore it!
My take is: do a new, clean, install in MPS mode and test it for stability for at least a week.
It may be the starting point to create a viable procedure for 2k on Haswell...
Although the Intel Graphics 4X00 probably won't go much beyond a VESA driver, if at all.



#88
JosefReisinger

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Hi dencorso,

thank you for your positive feedback. I tested MPS-HAL Installation with and without /PAE mode 5 times with extended core files from blackwingcat (HFSLIP). No problems. I installed and tested some programs, directx etc., there was never BSOD or other problem. So I think, MPS HAL is stable. The only thing: With extended core files from blackwingcat, Windows should show 4 processors instead of two. But it only shows two of them. I do not know exactly, if this is a natural limitation of MPS Hal or a problem with MPS Hal (like PS/2 mouse). Perhaps blackwingcat only added core limitation breaking into halmacpi, but not in halmps.

Can you give advice how to go on with ACPI? 

Greetings, Joe


Edited by JosefReisinger, 27 October 2014 - 02:38 AM.


#89
dencorso

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I think ACPI is hopeless, up until someone creates a proper ACPI driver for 2k on Haswell. :(

#90
AnX

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The problem is him using the InsydeH2O bios, Windows 2000 simply will not activate ACPI multiprocessor on that BIOS. If you want Win2k on a modern machine, desktop is a bettter choice.


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#91
blackwingcat

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I say again, it is BIOS compatibility problem.

So, There is a little hope that you can use Win2000 with MPS if  you exchange any BIOS as you can.

 

For example My Haswell Intel NUC D54250WYK works on MPS.

 

I think ACPI is hopeless, up until someone creates a proper ACPI driver for 2k on Haswell. :(


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#92
JosefReisinger

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Hi.

Since I cannot upload here because of size, I have put BIOS here:

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing.

Also available:

http://www.notebook-...driver-utility/

Perhaps the experts can have a look on it, try in vm and see, what could be done to make it w2k compat.

Of course I agree with AnX and blackwingcat, that BIOS is involved, but I thought it would be better for the future to change HAL/ACPI in w2k so it "understands" such bios.

If this is too difficult, also BIOS could be modded or I could try other bios versions for intel i7.

But since I have never touched bios components (too dangerous for me), I would need advice for the necessary procedures.

So, if you are interested in this topic, please contact me:

psychologische.praxis@aon.at

So we can discuss your work and my donation for it. I am interested in:

*W2k Driver development for USB UVC cam dev4F2&pid0409

*W2k Driver development for Intel vga

*W2k/XP Driver development HECI i7

*W2k/XP Driver development MEI i7

*W2k HAL/ACPI development, but if this is not possible or too much work ->

*Bios modding for w2k compatibility.

To avoid misunderstandings: After successful implementation, I would share the drivers with everybody here who wants to run w2k on intel haswell.

 

@AnX: My Bios is Aptio Setup Utility 2.15.1236 / AMI Bios Version 306, VBIOSVersion 2175.I15x550.007

 

Greetings, Joe


Edited by JosefReisinger, 29 October 2014 - 04:13 PM.


#93
monohouse

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blackwingcat, I have been glancing at your work on windows 2000 and I notice how much you invested in it, such dedicated work on supporting windows 2000 makes me want to go nostalgic again. I have a Haswell system and I do like older versions of windows. (right now I am running XP x64) but I am wondering, why would you and the community that is focused around the project would invest in such a great undertaking ? what are the reasons and motivations to support and develop this platform ? what are the benefits from running windows 2000 ? why isn't it easier to run windows 2003 ? with native x64 and multi-processor support out of the box ? what makes windows 2000 so special that justifies all the work that was invested in it ?

 

I am willing (and able) to find out for myself (I don't use USB3 and have my own added network card already), is there a big patch I can download with all the modifications you and people that worked on it with you and apply it onto an ISO of windows 2000 ?



#94
blackwingcat

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Hi.

 

I am aiming to create Windows 2000 which can install to last hardware, and make to be stable.

http://blog.livedoor...es/1763141.html

 

1. I have Windows Server 2003 , but it can't upgrade to Windows Server 2003 R2 :(.

I don't think  it is benefit that  x64 system  has too huge system files and poor compatibility.

 

I use sometimes Windows 7 and have also Windows Home Server, but they are undesirable for me very much.

 

 

blackwingcat, I have been glancing at your work on windows 2000 and I notice how much you invested in it, such dedicated work on supporting windows 2000 makes me want to go nostalgic again. I have a Haswell system and I do like older versions of windows. (right now I am running XP x64) but I am wondering, why would you and the community that is focused around the project would invest in such a great undertaking ? what are the reasons and motivations to support and develop this platform ? what are the benefits from running windows 2000 ? why isn't it easier to run windows 2003 ? with native x64 and multi-processor support out of the box ? what makes windows 2000 so special that justifies all the work that was invested in it ?

 

I am willing (and able) to find out for myself (I don't use USB3 and have my own added network card already), is there a big patch I can download with all the modifications you and people that worked on it with you and apply it onto an ISO of windows 2000 ?


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#95
submix8c

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BTW, There's both an x86 *and* an x64 version of Server2003R2. Rule of thumb - you can't go x86<->x64 (for *any* OS) becuase it has to be the same "bitness" to "switch" between "normal" to R2. IOW, x64 will have to installed be from "scratch".

 

JFYI. ;)

 

(BWC probably already knew that, as well as you...)


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