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Alternative methods to change OS boot on Dual Boot.


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27 replies to this topic

#1
Dogway

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I have XP set as default OS, the problem is that I want to boot to 7 when using the PC as a HTPC, but when I do so the only HID device I have available is a XBOX360 Joystick, which I tested and doesn't work on the boot menu.

So I'm trying to find a way to solve this. What devices apart of keyboards work on boot menus? Do those infrared controllers work?

 

Another option is to edit the boot loader (7's boot loader) to default to boot to 7 (from XP if that's possible) every time I want to do this, but I don't think it's a so nice idea to write to the MBR so frequently.




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#2
jaclaz

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Another option is to edit the boot loader (7's boot loader) to default to boot to 7 (from XP if that's possible) every time I want to do this, but I don't think it's a so nice idea to write to the MBR so frequently.

 

Well, if it helps you :), the boot loader (7's boot loader) does not reside in the MBR.

 

jaclaz



#3
Dogway

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Then it should be safe (?), at least if I can change boot priority from XP.


Edited by Dogway, 25 February 2014 - 05:17 AM.


#4
submix8c

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Under Windows 7, BCDEDIT (google that) or (alternative) EasyBCD.

 

HTH


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#5
Dogway

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Yes I use EasyBCD over Win7, but much better if I find one for XP. Or maybe just buy something that works on the boot menu.


Edited by Dogway, 25 February 2014 - 09:21 AM.


#6
cdob

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if I find one for XP.

Bcdedit.exe works both at XP and Windows 7.

So does BOOTICE
http://bbs.ipauly.co...06e07ab6f3b01cb

#7
Dogway

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Great! I might just use that.

 

Now that I'm here, to clear the other question, what type of device do I need to operate on POST, boot menu, etc?

Keyboard, mouse, joystick, pen tablet, remote controller, they are all HIDs, but AFAIK only keyboards work, why is this?



#8
cdob

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AFAIK only keyboards work, why is this?

The BIOS suuports keyboard device like devices only.

A UEFI firmware supports a mouse too.

#9
Dogway

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And what makes keyboards different to other devices? (so I know what to look at)



#10
Kelsenellenelvian

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Drivers, it's all down to what the bios supports.

Drives, keyboard that's about it.

Basic initialization support for video cards

Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 25 February 2014 - 11:54 AM.


#11
Dogway

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and what's considered a keyboard?

why a remote controller cannot be passed as a keyboard, because technically it's a board with keys...

 

Do I always need a half meter keyboard to manage on BIOS, boot menus, etc?



#12
Kelsenellenelvian

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That's how it's always been done. New graphical uefi bios have mouse support.

Older systems only check for the presence of keyboards the mouse isn't even working until the very first windows start routines.

#13
Kelsenellenelvian

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Yes it's a board with keys but not keys that say a,b,c 1010110 so on....

They say 1=3,+\- all sorts of wierd sh*t the bios can't understand

#14
Dogway

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Yes, but my question is still the same, what makes technically a keyboard a keyboard and a mouse a mouse.

Just in case I am going to search for a working device I know what to look for.



#15
Kelsenellenelvian

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Yes it's a board with keys but not keys that say a,b,c 1010110 so on....

They say 1=3,+\- all sorts of wierd sh*t the bios can't understand



#16
Kelsenellenelvian

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For thirty plus years when you press the a key on a keyboard it has sent the exact same a "code " remotes and game controllers didn't even exist when this code was setup.

Similarly the bios hasn't changed until last year.

I understand what you want but the original code just is not there in other devices a down key on a keyboard sends a down command while a down button on a remote or controller or moving a mouse down does not send the same base down. Other commands are sent.

Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 25 February 2014 - 12:13 PM.


#17
submix8c

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BIOS code has never supported anything but keyboard. Here's a topic referencing Scancodes - the BIOS has to "detect" what key is pressed in order to perfom it's magic. Much like the "programmable calculators" (Motorola, I believe) there is Firmware for detection of a KEY that is pressed - other devices have no such facility. How many times would you click on a mouse to get, say, F11?

http://www.msfn.org/...ey-on-keyboard/

Remember, the BIOS has a rudimentary BINARY PROGRAM CODE. ;)

 

Google e.g. "scancodes keyboard" (no quote) to get the gist of the detection stuff.


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#18
Dogway

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Yes I use autohotkey to detect scancodes. Probably the only (small) thing that might work is a numeric pad?



#19
Kelsenellenelvian

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Numeric pad should actually work

#20
jaclaz

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If you had a parallel port :w00t: you could use WWBMU:

http://lab1.de/Centr...em-Tools/WWBMU/

 

Or basically since normally BIOS does not support any other device but a keyboard (and yes a numeric keypad is technically a small keyboard) you have to load *something* (a bootmanager, a BIOS extension, a small OS, etc.) capable of supporting *something else* (i.e. *any* non-keyboard) as user input method.

 

XOSL is a "traditional" bootmanager that has mouse support, as an example:

xosl_boot.gif

 

However, and just for the record, there is also the possibility of touchscreen :w00t::

http://www.gigabyte....touch-bios.html

 

jaclaz



#21
Dogway

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Or basically since normally BIOS does not support any other device but a keyboard (and yes a numeric keypad is technically a small keyboard)

 

And it just makes you wonder what from all the HID devices standing of a shelf are "validated" as a keyboard. That's basically the basic gist of my question.

examples:
link
link

 

Hopefully you get my point.

 

edit: as for third party boot managers, I'm always open to suggestions, since with current 7's I can't really load XP with flags.


Edited by Dogway, 25 February 2014 - 01:39 PM.


#22
jaclaz

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Ok, maybe we need a further step.

 

The BIOS only recognizes a keyboard device and only if connected through the "old" DIN bus or more recently the PS/2 one, whilst most implementation (which as a matter of fact often fail/cause issues) on more recent BIOSes add an additional layer (which is sometimes referred in BIOS as "USB legacy support") that is more like a "converting the USB keyboard to a PS/2" than anything else.

 

Each and every "wireless" (no matter if radio, infrared, bluetooth or whatever technology) keyboard is (or should be) for all the BIOS knows a "normal", wired keyboard.

 

If you prefer, any device that is called keyboard presents itself to the BIOS as a keyboard, in the case of wireless keyboards such as the ones you posted a link to, it is the key that is inserted in the USB port that declares itself as "keyboard" (this is what the BIOS is looking for and the only thing that matters to it), and how exactly the USB key communicates (and couples, etc.) with the actual remote things with keys is essentially out of the interest of BIOS.

To all effects for the BIOS those "internet remote/keyboards" are just like plain, conventional USB keyboards.

 

jaclaz



#23
Dogway

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Probably is the keyboard "side" (lit. and fig.) the part that validates the remote control as useable in BIOS. These things are expensive but they definitely look the thing to go for Dual Boot HTPC, Steam must go to Win7, that's the basic constraint.

Thanks for help.



#24
jaclaz

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..., it is the key that is inserted in the USB port that declares itself as "keyboard" (this is what the BIOS is looking for and the only thing that matters to it), ...

 

 

Probably is the keyboard "side" (lit. and fig.) the part that validates the remote control as useable in BIOS. 

 

Perfect.

 

jaclaz



#25
Tripredacus

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Each and every "wireless" (no matter if radio, infrared, bluetooth or whatever technology) keyboard is (or should be) for all the BIOS knows a "normal", wired keyboard.

 

I was surprised by this just last week. I am working on a custom appliance and it uses a wireless/BT keyboard. I did not expect that I could enter the BIOS using it but it works just fine.


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