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XP OS vulnerabilities after April 8, 2014

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#1
vipejc

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Hey, guys. Now that official XP support is over, the hackers are going to reverse-engineer the security updates for the newer versions of Windows and then create exploits for XP. Hackers can indirectly attack a computer through malware. Most of us know how to prevent that, but hackers can also directly attack a computer through OS security vulnerabilities. Now since Microsoft will never patch them, if a user takes every step to protect their XP system, from having a firewall installed to having anti-virus software installed to everything in between, is this really any risk? Could an attacker get inside a computer if the user doesn't install malware? If so, how? Would you say the built-in XP firewall will always protect the system, or could a hacker possibly exploit it and gain control of the system? All very important questions for XP warriors.


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#2
Kelsenellenelvian

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Not really the main risk is how you use the system. There is a lot of users that use most systems all the time without any protection here and are safe.

 

Think of it this way:

 

 What do you have on your PC a hacker is going to want to track you down to find and use?

 

Unless you are making multi-millions or are famous\infamous on the net they don't give a crap about you.

 

You are in much more danger from the NSA and Google than a actual hacker.

 

Practice safe surfing and you'll be safe.

 

All this paranoia is really just compounding the conspiracy theorists.....



#3
vipejc

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So then a hacker can't get inside a local computer if you don't install malware and practice safe browsing and good security? Then what's all this fuss about XP OS vulnerabilities are a hacker's playground?


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#4
Kelsenellenelvian

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It's fud cooked up by MS and people who want you to upgrade to Win8 and other browsers.

 

Think of this:

 

I am a hacker and I see your name on some randomm net site, now I decide I hate you and have to do the following:

 

Hack that site to get your ip

or

Send you a email in hopes you respond so I can get your ip

 

then

 

I have to spend all the time tracking your ip to get to your pc 

 

then I have to  try the couple of backdoors I know to get into your pc

 

then I have to crack your pass word to get to anything in your pc.

 

 

 

 

OR:

 

I am a hacker and I am going to spend my time hacking into some place that gives me a guaranteed payoff, like sony playstation network or xbox live.

 

Not waste my time on you when I know i'll likely have no payoff. 


Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 19 April 2014 - 01:42 AM.

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#5
dencorso

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Yeah, just scare tactics to try and sell one crappy 8. :P



#6
vipejc

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It's fud cooked up by MS and people who want you to upgrade to Win8 and other browsers.

 

Think of this:

 

I am a hacker and I see your name on some randomm net site, now I decide I hate you and have to do the following:

 

Hack that site to get your ip

or

Send you a email in hopes you respond so I can get your ip

 

then

 

I have to spend all the time tracking your ip to get to your pc 

 

then I have to  try the couple of backdoors I know to get into your pc

 

then I have to crack your pass word to get to anything in your pc.

 

 

 

 

OR:

 

I am a hacker and I am going to spend my time hacking into some place that gives me a guaranteed payoff, like sony playstation network or xbox live.

 

Not waste my time on you when I know i'll likely have no payoff. 

 

Home users get hacked every day that aren't major corporations with lots of wealth. You just said I'd have to try some backdoor programs to get inside your computer. What do you mean by this? And could an XP OS vulnerability let you right in to my system? My concern is that I heard a popular computer guy say that an XP system that's just used as a cash register, server, or ATM, can be hacked even if the user doesn't browse the Internet or check e-mail. He says any device connected to the Internet, wired or wireless, can be randomly hacked and turned into a malware center. That scares me. Is this true? If so, is this true of local computers, not WANS, that they can just be hacked if the user does nothing to get hacked because they exploited an XP OS vulnerability?


Edited by vipejc, 19 April 2014 - 09:21 AM.

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#7
vipejc

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Yeah, just scare tactics to try and sell one crappy 8. :P

Den, I'm the leader of the hate-MS tribe, and I know 99.9% of it is scare tactics and fear mongering for MS to try their hardest to force upgrades because they're too stupid and lazy to legitimately make an OS better than XP that people actually say "OK, this blows XP away. I must have it." But one thing does worry me, and I'd like for you to answer it. A popular computer guy named Eli the Computer Guy, who is very arrogant and makes very little sense, said that any XP system with an OS vulnerability can be hacked, even if it's just used as a server, cash register, or ATM, because any device connected to the Internet, whether wired or wireless, that uses broadband and is always connected to the Internet is a target for hackers. He then says and the user doesn't even have to use the Internet, click a rogue e-mail link, download a rogue attachment, or go to a rogue site. That makes me think that if a hacker does find an OS exploit, no protection can stop them from hacking my computer because there's no OS patch to prevent it. So I could be sleeping, and then all the while the hacker randomly breaches the built-in XP firewall or something and takes over my computer. Is that true, or is this more "I love MS" BS? And I just want to say F you, Microsoft! You'll never get another penny from me. Thanks for XP, suckers. I'll be using it forever for free. LMAO


Edited by vipejc, 19 April 2014 - 09:26 AM.

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#8
Kelsenellenelvian

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Home users very rarely (Let me repeat VERY rarely) ever get actually hacked. The root cause is almost always malware and browsing based.

 

Look at all of the popular pc guys saying windows 8 is the future and you all have to upgrade. Major internet and pc reviewers say it all the time and then do a 180 next month.

 

Yes there is a tiny, tiny chance some hacker could randomly come on your pc. But any up to date firewall, and av plus safe browsing is going to keep you safe.

 

The thing your not seeing is that unless they have a reason to latch on to you they care alot less than the NSA, MS, Google, your own internet provider...



#9
Kelsenellenelvian

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Look at good old Paul Therrot.. (Spelling?)

 

Lots of people who think they are computer savvy and could, in thier minds, NEVER get a virus or malware just decide they were hacked also.

 

I see it all the time when someone get something off of facebook, twitter or from a random email. Hell just from running a installer of the web without paying attention to what they are clicking on.


Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 19 April 2014 - 09:28 AM.


#10
Flasche

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Yeah, just scare tactics to try and sell one crappy 8. :P

 

You mean 8.1 :sneaky: .

 

 

Home users get hacked every day that aren't major corporations with lots of wealth. You just said I'd have to try some backdoor programs to get inside your computer. What do you mean by this? And could an XP OS vulnerability let you right in to my system? My concern is that I heard a popular computer guy say that an XP system that's just used as a cash register, server, or ATM, can be hacked even if the user doesn't browse the Internet or check e-mail. He says any device connected to the Internet, wired or wireless, can be randomly hacked and turned into a malware center. That scares me. Is this true? If so, is this true of local computers, not WANS, that they can just be hacked if the user does nothing to get hacked because they exploited an XP OS vulnerability?

 

There is no need to worry about getting hacked. As Kelsenellenelvian said the chances of you getting hacked are slim. People are just trying to scare you into getting their product. I cant find this image now, but It showed a table of windows xp, vista, 7, and 8 with amount of known exploits. Behold Xp was the one with the least exploits and 8 with the most :whistle: . (Image is somewhere on the Deeper impressions thread) Personally I think that XP would be very safe since it was around for such a longtime that finding new exploits should be really hard (Most xp exploits come from software not the os its-self) I dont know what else they can find honesty its like beating a dead horse.


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#11
jaclaz

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Let's put it this other way (anecdotal :w00t:), I have never seen in my whole life an actual vulnerability actually being taken advantage of by a "hacker" on a non-business installment.

 

Anything I ever came across was introduced in the affected machine(s):

  1. by senselessly clicking on a link on a received e-mail (or with Outlook/Outlook Express just opening a received e-mail)
  2. by getting a virus/malware as "strings attached" to a downloaded file, usually "border line" with legality or beyond it (warez, pirated movies, etc.)
  3. by browsing on a malicious site (often connected with the above)
  4. by physical insertion in the machine of a USB stick (previously and separately affected because of one of the reasons above)

The whole point is that someone that writes a malware/virus etc. would do this mainly for one of these three reasons:

  1. sheer fun/show off/brag about how clever he/she is <- no profit
  2. create havoc on large scale <- no profit
  3. get money (lots of it) <- profit

Now:

  1. the first one is just a "kid" and has no interest in targeting specifically you, as it wouldn't produce the kind of publicity wished for. 
  2. the second one is someone that is against all humanity (or technology or MS or all of them) and also has no interest in targeting you.
  3. the third one is someone that wants money and since you have not enough of it and it would cost him/her much more time and effort to target individuals (to get only a little money) than trying to collect money by infecting the largest possible number of machines, also has no particular interest on you.

What remains are just two possibilities:

  1. you have (personally) offended the "hacker" or however made the "hacker" willing to take a personal revenge against you
  2. you have (personally) offended someone and this someone has enough money (and the capabilities) to find and hire a "hacker" to have him/her take the revenge

All in all, if you behave nicely enough with all people :), you should be safe from these.

 

You are however a target, but just one target in the mass of other targets, there is nothing particularly "safe" to do, but you will have to adopt a strategy similar to the one in the old bear joke:

http://www.forensicf...567580/#6567580

you don't have to be "better than the hacker is", you need to be "better than a large enough number of possible victims".

 

jaclaz


Edited by jaclaz, 19 April 2014 - 09:44 AM.


#12
vipejc

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Then it sounds like I have absolutely nothing to worry about, as I'm as careful as they come and haven't had a virus in over 10 years! I just wanted to make sure I didn't overlook something because I invested a lot of time and money into XP. Look, the truth is MS just wants everybody to upgrade to Windows 7 or newer and stupidly spend $200 for a dummed down OS with a lot less functionality and slightly better security. But the truth is Windows 7 and newer also have OS exploits that will also need to be constantly patched as they age. The only reason 7 and newer don't get hacked as much is because they're much newer. Someday they'll be in the same boat as XP. The truth is XP is the most stable and productive OS in the world, and only a fool would stop using it. If MS would just get some intelligence and work hard to surpass it, so many people would say "Yes, this new Windows makes XP look like DOS. It's so much faster and more productive. No more Blue Screens. Just a world better." Then even I would drop XP. But that will never happen. MS was always okay until mid-2006. Never great at anything, but mostly passable. Then once Gates left, it's been all downhill. Every MS product is a joke, from the Xbox 360 to Windows 8. So simply put, don't buy any Microsoft products. It's nothing but a money-making game. They want to play computer Nazi and force upgrades, instead of making people want to buy. It's pathetic. And I just want Microsoft dead and buried. The world doesn't need them anymore. The moral of this story is simple. Either Microsoft starts working harder and always works hard to keep pushing technology in the right direction, or they need to just GTFO of business. The game never stops. Microsoft likes to make an OS and support it for 2 years. Then they say time to upgrade for no good reason. They just want stupid money. And if they earned my money, I'd be happy to give it to them.


Edited by vipejc, 19 April 2014 - 09:57 AM.

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#13
Flasche

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Then it sounds like I have absolutely nothing to worry about, as I'm as careful as they come and haven't had a virus in over 10 years! I just wanted to make sure I didn't overlook something because I invested a lot of time and money into XP. Look, the truth is MS just wants everybody to upgrade to Windows 7 or newer and stupidly spend $200 for a dummed down OS with a lot less functionality and slightly better security. But the truth is Windows 7 and newer also have OS exploits that will also need to be constantly patched as they age. The only reason 7 and newer don't get hacked as much is because they're much newer. Someday they'll be in the same boat as XP. The truth is XP is the most stable and productive OS in the world, and only a fool would stop using it. If MS would just get some intelligence and work hard to surpass it, so many people would say "Yes, this new Windows makes XP look like DOS. It's so much faster and more productive. No more Blue Screens. Just a world better." Then even I would drop XP. But that will never happen. MS was always okay until mid-2006. Never great at anything, but mostly passable. Then once Gates left, it's been all downhill. Every MS product is a joke, from the Xbox 360 to Windows 8. So simply put, don't buy any Microsoft products. It's nothing but a money-making game. They want to play computer Nazi and force upgrades, instead of making people want to buy. It's pathetic. And I just want Microsoft dead and buried. The world doesn't need them anymore. The moral of this story is simple. Either Microsoft starts working harder and always works hard to keep pushing technology in the right direction, or they need to just GTFO of business.

 

There was nothing to worry about from the beginning. They have been plenty of windows 9x and xp vulnerabilities topics on this forum, and they ended in the same answer. PEBCAK.


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#14
Kelsenellenelvian

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Also XP has had 13 years of fixes and improvements under its belt.

 

Hackers nowadays are focusing on windows 7 ++++ why would the give a sh*t about someone who can't afford or care to upgrade from XP?


Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 19 April 2014 - 09:55 AM.


#15
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Also XP has had 13 years of fixes and improvements under its belt.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ng_a_dead_horse


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#16
vipejc

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Let's put it this other way (anecdotal :w00t:), I have never seen in my whole life an actual vulnerability actually being taken advantage of by a "hacker" on a non-business installment.

 

Anything I ever came across was introduced in the affected machine(s):

  1. by senselessly clicking on a link on a received e-mail (or with Outlook/Outlook Express just opening a received e-mail)
  2. by getting a virus/malware as "strings attached" to a downloaded file, usually "border line" with legality or beyond it (warez, pirated movies, etc.)
  3. by browsing on a malicious site (often connected with the above)
  4. by physical insertion in the machine of a USB stick (previously and separately affected because of one of the reasons above)

The whole point is that someone that writes a malware/virus etc. would do this mainly for one of these three reasons:

  1. sheer fun/show off/brag about how clever he/she is <- no profit
  2. create havoc on large scale <- no profit
  3. get money (lots of it) <- profit

Now:

  1. the first one is just a "kid" and has no interest in targeting specifically you, as it wouldn't produce the kind of publicity wished for. 
  2. the second one is someone that is against all humanity (or technology or MS or all of them) and also has no interest in targeting you.
  3. the third one is someone that wants money and since you have not enough of it and it would cost him/her much more time and effort to target individuals (to get only a little money) than trying to collect money by infecting the largest possible number of machines, also has no particular interest on you.

What remains are just two possibilities:

  1. you have (personally) offended the "hacker" or however made the "hacker" willing to take a personal revenge against you
  2. you have (personally) offended someone and this someone has enough money (and the capabilities) to find and hire a "hacker" to have him/her take the revenge

All in all, if you behave nicely enough with all people :), you should be safe from these.

 

You are however a target, but just one target in the mass of other targets, there is nothing particularly "safe" to do, but you will have to adopt a strategy similar to the one in the old bear joke:

http://www.forensicf...567580/#6567580

you don't have to be "better than the hacker is", you need to be "better than a large enough number of possible victims".

 

jaclaz

Jaclaz, you should hear this tool named Eli the Computer Guy. Watch his stupid videos on YouTube about the end of support for XP. Here's my impression of him. OMGZ! You must kill XP now! All XP machines are sitting ducks and will be shot on site. It is essential that you buy Windows 7 or 8, now. If you don't, your computer will blow up, or a hacker will take over it and turn it into a zombie bot and destroy the worldz! The funniest thing he said was XP wasn't built for broadband or security, and that XP systems should be disconnected from the Internet and put on their own little private island. Well, Eli, my XP loves broadband. It's so fast and I get so much work done. Love the thing. LOL


Edited by vipejc, 19 April 2014 - 10:05 AM.

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#17
dencorso

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Yeah, just scare tactics to try and sell one crappy 8. :P

 

But one thing does worry me, and I'd like for you to answer it. A popular computer guy named Eli the Computer Guy, who is very arrogant and makes very little sense, said that any XP system with an OS vulnerability can be hacked, even if it's just used as a server, cash register, or ATM, because any device connected to the Internet, whether wired or wireless, that uses broadband and is always connected to the Internet is a target for hackers. [...]

 

In principle, anything directely connected to the WAN is more at risk than anything behind a common, garden-variety, router (or wireless router), which firewall (the proverbial hardware firewall) is activated and correctly configured. If there is a router firewall between your machine and the WAN, then its the router firewall (in ROM, linux or proprietary OS) that is seen from the outside. Now tell me please, how can a hacker attack a XP machine that is always on, but which that hacker cannot even see? I say: FUD!!!  icon33.gif

And I say more: long live XP! :yes:



#18
vipejc

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Also XP has had 13 years of fixes and improvements under its belt.

 

Hackers nowadays are focusing on windows 7 ++++ why would the give a sh*t about someone who can't afford or care to upgrade from XP?

Yes, 13 years or so of patches and improvements UP TO April 8, 2014. Don't think for a second that the elite hackers won't research Windows 7 or 8 security holes and then reverse-engineer them, test them in XP, and if they work, put them on the black market to the highest bidder or just use them themselves to exploit XP systems. That was my real concern, and it was a legitmate one, not some newbie nonsense rant.


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#19
Kelsenellenelvian

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Let's put it this other way (anecdotal :w00t:), I have never seen in my whole life an actual vulnerability actually being taken advantage of by a "hacker" on a non-business installment.

 

Anything I ever came across was introduced in the affected machine(s):

  1. by senselessly clicking on a link on a received e-mail (or with Outlook/Outlook Express just opening a received e-mail)
  2. by getting a virus/malware as "strings attached" to a downloaded file, usually "border line" with legality or beyond it (warez, pirated movies, etc.)
  3. by browsing on a malicious site (often connected with the above)
  4. by physical insertion in the machine of a USB stick (previously and separately affected because of one of the reasons above)

The whole point is that someone that writes a malware/virus etc. would do this mainly for one of these three reasons:

  1. sheer fun/show off/brag about how clever he/she is <- no profit
  2. create havoc on large scale <- no profit
  3. get money (lots of it) <- profit

Now:

  1. the first one is just a "kid" and has no interest in targeting specifically you, as it wouldn't produce the kind of publicity wished for. 
  2. the second one is someone that is against all humanity (or technology or MS or all of them) and also has no interest in targeting you.
  3. the third one is someone that wants money and since you have not enough of it and it would cost him/her much more time and effort to target individuals (to get only a little money) than trying to collect money by infecting the largest possible number of machines, also has no particular interest on you.

What remains are just two possibilities:

  1. you have (personally) offended the "hacker" or however made the "hacker" willing to take a personal revenge against you
  2. you have (personally) offended someone and this someone has enough money (and the capabilities) to find and hire a "hacker" to have him/her take the revenge

All in all, if you behave nicely enough with all people :), you should be safe from these.

 

You are however a target, but just one target in the mass of other targets, there is nothing particularly "safe" to do, but you will have to adopt a strategy similar to the one in the old bear joke:

http://www.forensicf...567580/#6567580

you don't have to be "better than the hacker is", you need to be "better than a large enough number of possible victims".

 

jaclaz

Jaclaz, you should hear this tool named Eli the Computer Guy. Watch his stupid videos on YouTube about the end of support for XP. Here's my impression of him. OMGZ! You must kill XP now! All XP machines are sitting ducks and will be shot on site. It is essential that you buy Windows 7 or 8, now. If you don't, your computer will blow up, or a hacker will take over it and turn it into a zombie bot and destroy the worldz! The funniest thing he said was XP wasn't built for broadband or security, and that XP systems should be disconnected from the Internet and put on their own little private island. Well, Eli, my XP loves broadband. It's so fast and I get so much work done. Love the thing. LOL

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he's sponsored or gotten incentives to say that stuff.

 

Most of the vulnerabilities also come in the basic "IE-related" category too. Knowing that and since XP cannot go above ie8 (Which we know has fallen way behind now) It's highly unlikely that a ie11+ exploit can even be managed to back port.

 

That also goes for the other few. The system is fundamentally different now. I'm not saying it won't happen, just if you don't use ie or wmp then your chances go from slim to minuscule...


Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 19 April 2014 - 10:17 AM.


#20
vipejc

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Yeah, just scare tactics to try and sell one crappy 8. :P

 

But one thing does worry me, and I'd like for you to answer it. A popular computer guy named Eli the Computer Guy, who is very arrogant and makes very little sense, said that any XP system with an OS vulnerability can be hacked, even if it's just used as a server, cash register, or ATM, because any device connected to the Internet, whether wired or wireless, that uses broadband and is always connected to the Internet is a target for hackers. [...]

 

In principle, anything directely connected to the WAN is more at risk than anything behind a common, garden-variety, router (or wireless router), which firewall (the proverbial hardware firewall) is activated and correctly configured. If there is a router firewall between your machine and the WAN, then its the router firewall (in ROM, linux or proprietary OS) that is seen from the outside. Now tell me please, how can a hacker attack a XP machine that is always on, but which that hacker cannot even see? I say: FUD!!!  icon33.gif

And I say more: long live XP! :yes:

 

Sounds like it can't. Well, thanks for clearing this up. All these replies just confirm that XP is completely safe for a home user now and forever.


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#21
dencorso

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Yeah, just scare tactics to try and sell one crappy 8. :P

 

You mean 8.1 :sneaky: .

 

Whatever... in fact I mean 8.1+, because, no matter how many updates or upgrades one does to it, crappy 8 remains crappy! :yes:



#22
Kelsenellenelvian

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Also XP has had 13 years of fixes and improvements under its belt.

 

Hackers nowadays are focusing on windows 7 ++++ why would the give a sh*t about someone who can't afford or care to upgrade from XP?

Yes, 13 years or so of patches and improvements UP TO April 8, 2014. Don't think for a second that the elite hackers won't research Windows 7 or 8 security holes and then reverse-engineer them, test them in XP, and if they work, put them on the black market to the highest bidder or just use them themselves to exploit XP systems. That was my real concern, and it was a legitmate one, not some newbie nonsense rant.

 

Please note I wasn't in any way saying you are just noob ranting.



#23
Flasche

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Yes, 13 years or so of patches and improvements UP TO April 8, 2014. Don't think for a second that the elite hackers won't research Windows 7 or 8 security holes and then reverse-engineer them, test them in XP, and if they work, put them on the black market to the highest bidder or just use them themselves to exploit XP systems. That was my real concern, and it was a legitmate one, not some newbie nonsense rant.

 

 

Again as I said for the third time its like beating a dead horse. What possible can they do to xp now. Its been around for such a long time, which accounts for many years of patches for vulnerabilities. It would be hard to find one now.

In fact this topic is beating a dead horse.

 

Whatever... in fact I mean 8.1+, because, no matter how many updates or upgrades one does to it, crappy 8 remains crappy! :yes:

 

Self evident


Seeker Of Truth by E. E. Cummings                                                                                           Quote (Me)

  • seeker of truth                                                 "If you want to reach and discover the true meaning of order; You must go through chaos first."            344d0f9.jpg
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#24
vipejc

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Also XP has had 13 years of fixes and improvements under its belt.

 

Hackers nowadays are focusing on windows 7 ++++ why would the give a sh*t about someone who can't afford or care to upgrade from XP?

Yes, 13 years or so of patches and improvements UP TO April 8, 2014. Don't think for a second that the elite hackers won't research Windows 7 or 8 security holes and then reverse-engineer them, test them in XP, and if they work, put them on the black market to the highest bidder or just use them themselves to exploit XP systems. That was my real concern, and it was a legitmate one, not some newbie nonsense rant.

 

Please note I wasn't in any way saying you are just noob ranting.

 

It's cool. I don't know everything. Nobody does. We computer users need to always share our knowledge so together we can stop all these sales pitches and make the best personal decisions for our computers. MS is not half as smart as all of us and our collective knowledge.


There's no such thing as a dumb computer question. Each of us interprets info differently. - Me

#25
bphlpt

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You might want to look at the links in this post - http://www.msfn.org/...-lol/?p=1067639, and review the entire thread for that matter.

 

Cheers and Regards


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