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NoelC

Why does MS Marketing Still Try To Mislead Everyone?

87 posts in this topic

to me vista had worst UI in history of win32, too clunky and too scattered on all sides

although win "7" fixed the clunkiness a bit, the scattered options are still there, a non user friendly

where winblows 8 only made this worse

as for security

NT would be far more resilient if IE would have been taken out from shell completely

and yet again I doubt we will ever see this, even less now coz Metro depends on it

and those boneheads did it on purpose

now they can justify having IE as "must" integrated deeper

and they get IE usage share bigger again

monopoly is back

Edited by vinifera
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If there's one certain statement that can be made, it's that Microsoft no longer GETS UIs. :lol: That skill died after Sinofsky and his minions took over.

I don't think I've ever seen it stated better. Thank you, xpclient.

The thing that most folks don't realize is how long the pipeline is. What we're seeing released today was designed by those minions. People credit Sinofski with Win 7, but if you think about it he really just kept the pipeline flowing for things that had been originally designed years earlier.

And wow, the Quote button actually worked here on the forum.

-Noel

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If there's one certain statement that can be made, it's that Microsoft no longer GETS UIs. :lol: That skill died after Sinofsky and his minions took over and started destroying classic UIs at Microsoft without any rational or logical benefit and without considering the all-round big picture (focusing on just one benefit of the UI redesign).

yeah. Win8, Office 2013, VS2012/2013 all GUIs are broken :(

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Microsoft is bloating Windows in every new relase.

Windows 8 Metro brings no advantages for people that does not have an touchscreen equiped computer. Heck, it is just annoying with a mouse. By the other side, GNOME3 still is very usefull with a mouse.

Windows 8 uses a lot of Hard Disk space with stuff that I will never use. I miss the option in Windows 95/98 when you could select what to install.

Windows 8 "Aero" just can't be disabled through options, that means more megabytes of memory and processing that could be used in something else.

Windows 8 brings a new "Fast boot" technology that works nicely if and only if you do not have another OS installed. otherwise every change you do in any shared partition through another OS will make Windows get confused and corrupt the added files.

Heck, Windows 8 does not support less-than-32bits colors at all, they had to include an buggy wrapper for legacy applications.

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winblows 8 has no aero

and you can choose components in every NT version, just search for Embedded versions

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Wrong. Aero is there - it's just been hobbled to appear flat and lifeless.

-Noel

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Wrong. Aero is there - it's just been hobbled to appear flat and lifeless.

-Noel

Let's call it "Swamp" instead of Aero ;)

jaclaz

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Why? With Big Muscle's tool to restore translucency and a theme atlas to restore drop shadows it's fine. My Windows 8.1 desktop experience isn't really worse than with Win 7 Aero.

That's not to say Microsoft isn't trying to make it worse. But so far 3rd party developers have been able to compensate for Microsoft's deviousness in actively hobbling the desktop in order to try to get people to love Metro/Modern. That may not be possible forever.

-Noel

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there is difference between hack and slash something to "restore" something

and providing something natively

if this is the case of your Aero

then XP had it too, Stardock provided it with its own engine that was slapping itself onto uxtheme

others like Komalo, TrueTransparency and ViSplore also hacked and slashed their own apps and provided it

does that mean XP had Aero ?

Edited by vinifera
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Xp was never a good UI. I always hated it. The Vista/7 UI is 1000 times better.

The BASE system components of Vista/7 also consume 1.5x - 4x more memory than XP, and buggy as hell.

It's not that its M$ misleading people, but companies in general. People will do anything to get an extra couple bucks.

Hence fraud... people usually went to jail / prison for this shit back in the day. If you can't be 100% honest about a product, then you shouldn't be selling / offering it, period.

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The Aero implementation is still there. DWM is still present. In fact, desktop composition is now the ONLY way it works, opposed to the Classic theme of Win 7, which turned off desktop composition. It's Aero GLASS that's no longer implemented, strictly because Microsoft decided it would be better for them if they started trying to herd people to Metro/Modern. I'm sorry to pick apart terminology, but getting it wrong doesn't help make any points. I'm not opposing your viewpoint that Microsoft is going in the wrong direction - I share it.

As much of Aero as is still there may imply Microsoft doesn't even have the talent to remove entire features any more.

-Noel

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Doing even small changes can be painful in a large project, it's all about how it was programmed. But Microsoft is recycling code since... DOS? I Wonder how messy the code is, actually.

Edited by pichorra
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Metro is useless!

not entirely

it actually makes people be pissed off :D

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if this is the case of your Aero

then XP had it too, Stardock provided it with its own engine that was slapping itself onto uxtheme

others like Komalo, TrueTransparency and ViSplore also hacked and slashed their own apps and provided it

does that mean XP had Aero ?

Sure. In that case, Windows 95 and 98 have Aero as well. :P

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not to mention that we are all worng regarding Aero

but the term has been often replaced with real one so ...

the truth is that Aero was name for new user interface, glass has nothing to do with it :P

proof lying as early as Longhorn build 4039,

the first leaked build that contained full working DWM

Aero express, had Opaque (filled) window borders, but UI was still rendered via GPU

while Aero (full) had Glass enabled

next time this was seen in Vista beta 1 build 5112

if you install nVidia LDDM test drivers, you will be presented with

again Aero Express and Aero Full

but oh well ...

Edited by vinifera
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I was not wrong.

Thing is, many folks don't sense the subtle differences between an old style non-composited desktop and what Windows is presenting now because it's been a long time since we've had computers slow enough that we could see the actual window pixels being painted in. Remember when, on a pre DWM setup, you'd see all the controls flicker as you were resizing a window and they were all repainted before your very eyes?

Many folks believe Microsoft when they say they removed Aero GLASS to save resources, when almost all of the activity is still there just to paint flat, lifeless, "digitally authentic" UI elements. One really needs hip boots mow to deal with all the Marketing speak.

-Noel

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I was not wrong.

Thing is, many folks don't sense the subtle differences between an old style non-composited desktop and what Windows is presenting now because it's been a long time since we've had computers slow enough that we could see the actual window pixels being painted in. Remember when, on a pre DWM setup, you'd see all the controls flicker as you were resizing a window and they were all repainted before your very eyes?

Many folks believe Microsoft when they say they removed Aero GLASS to save resources, when almost all of the activity is still there just to paint flat, lifeless, "digitally authentic" UI elements. One really needs hip boots mow to deal with all the Marketing speak.

-Noel

That's interesting. My understanding all along was that saving resources on cr*ppy mobile devices (never mind the billions of desktop PCs out there) was the whole purpose for removing Aero Glass, and that the bit about abandoning "skeuomorphism" was just an after-the-fact rationalization for public consumption.

If not for saving resources on mobile devices, then what earthly reason could there be for removing Aero Glass?

(Note: I'm not being argumentative, just asking sincerely, and above all trying to understand what Microsoft's rationale could possibly be.)

--JorgeA

EDIT: typo, clarification

Edited by JorgeA
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In my opinion, it's to sway "fashion" in the direction of selling more Microsoft devices.

Tablets with flat, lifeless UI - good. Desktops with plenty of power but ugh, skeuomorphism - bad.

Consider... Even Apple devices are now switching to the flat look. IPads have had plenty of UI responsiveness and battery life, even back when they had wood grain, decent 3d looking buttons, and drop shadows.

Computers and GPUs are not getting slower. The amount of computation that goes into something like Aero Glass is inconsequential. Do you hear of people claiming Big Muscle's Aero Glass replacement software slows their desktop down? I haven't.

Now you know what I mean in this thread.

-Noel

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Noel i'm on a athlon II x2 245 with 4GB ram, i notice 0 difference in performance when running bigmuscle's aeroglass

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Exactly.  Windows 8 is almost exclusively about manipulating people.

 

They just don't make any money in an ongoing fashion without continuing to improve it, and everyone wants to make money nowadays as a sales facilitator.  Building better mousetraps is harder than letting other folks do the programming.

 

I just don't understand why a company the size of Microsoft couldn't do all of the above - BOTH improve the OS *and* build an infrastructure through which to facilitate sales.  The folks running the show must be real simpletons.

 

-Noel

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Looks like the guys at Mozilla have been smoking the same stuff as Microsoft.

 

I woke up this morning to an 'update' to Firefox v29.0. that basically did the same as delete a Start Menu.... They Removed the 'Firefox Orange Menu' from the Top left.

 

I liked it fine where it was. You adopt a methodology and muscle memory for tasks. Its not hating change, but its getting tiring.

 

There were even stories from the moderators etc how this has taken 4years of research to update a UI that wasn't broken.

 

Sounds familiar.... what happened to asking if I wanted to try the new style- and choose to refuse and continue with classic.

 

It didn't take long to notice I wasn't the only one feeling this way- usual outbursts and rants in forums.. but at least a solution was found.

 

Another patch to restore simple functionality that shouldn't have to exist.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/reviews/

 

I guess this is job creation of sorts.. Out-Sourcing of classic code and interfaces.

 

Hum..

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Yep, this is also - sometimes - because of "commissions" or "collective design". :w00t:

 

Just in case, there is a site that helps making your own Tree Swing Cartoon ;) or "How Projects Really Work"

http://www.projectcartoon.com/

 

Of course, ironically, the originally version 1.0:

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/3

was updated to 1.5:

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/2

and to 2.0:

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/1

 

jaclaz

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