Jump to content

Welcome to MSFN Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account



Photo

Why does MS Marketing Still Try To Mislead Everyone?


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

#76
NoelC

NoelC

    Software Engineer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,597 posts
  • Joined 08-April 13
  • OS:Windows 8.1 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Windows 8 could be considered a small ledge, just below the edge, constructed with available spit and sand by those who haven't already fallen and are still hanging by one hand...  :angel

 

-Noel




How to remove advertisement from MSFN

#77
xpclient

xpclient

    XP was my idea. 3rd party apps make the garbage after it my idea

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 357 posts
  • Joined 30-July 05
  • OS:XP Pro x64
  • Country: Country Flag

 

... We've seen the golden age of computing come and go.

 

^ Exactly my feeling. In the not-too-distant future everything is going to be dumbed-down, walled-gardened, clouded, monthly-subscribed, and in general screwed up for the users in every form imaginable.

 

Enjoy W7 while it lasts, for beyond Se7en lies the abyss ...

 

The same can be said of WinXP. I enjoyed WinXP while it lasted. Still enjoy it with Embedded updates hack. Windows 7/Vista is for many users (including me) already dumbed-down, locked down from customization, and in general screwed up (hence the need for Classic Shell) :) Windows 8 is only the next-generation of dumbing down. Things will mostly remain at the Windows 8/Apple level of dumbing down for next few years I think. Microsoft suddenly started equating iOS/Android OSes with desktop OSes hence the extra torture for customers.


Impossible to run the garbage Windows OSes after XP without third party fixes.


#78
NoelC

NoelC

    Software Engineer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,597 posts
  • Joined 08-April 13
  • OS:Windows 8.1 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

I can only agree partly, xpclient.  Vista and newer did bring some nice things to the party - for example, GPU-integrated desktop composition is well worth having.  And there were substantial things done to the kernel that help make the newer systems both more stable and less likely to be compromised by bad drivers or malware.  Finally, Windows 7 was a much-needed optimization that Microsoft had avoided like the plague up to that time.  But yes, they also tacked a lot of BS onto it as well.

 

But all that said, it's hard - really hard - to see anything new of substance in Windows 8.

 

I don't know, perhaps that's the good part, since (having not been touched much) the kernel is still quite solid and it can run essentially forever.  And IMO it's still better than Unix and its derivatives. 

 

But regardless of the crap Microsoft's marketeers upchuck, Win 8.1 is slower than Win 7.  People are not actually completely stupid and a system without any substantive improvement where it counts just doesn't show obvious value to folks trying to decide whether to spend money on it.

 

I guess it's harder to actually DO engineering when you can just say whatever you want.  Whatever happened to truth in advertising?

 

-Noel



#79
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 15,760 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Whatever happened to truth in advertising?

-Noel


You need - I believe - a special permission :w00t: to use oximorons on the board. :unsure:

;)

:lol:

jaclaz
  • Tripredacus likes this

#80
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,813 posts
  • Joined 08-April 10
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Right, then going to great lengths to make "dull, matte primer" fashionable.

 

Trying to push fashion is just ridiculous with an operating system. It just screws everything up and we have people working hard to do exactly the opposite of what they should be doing, which is making it work better.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to help much to "expose" this crap. They just do more and more of it as though nothing's wrong. But you can be sure they're paying attention to the lack of adoption of Windows 8. Very few folks know all the many, many tweaks now needed to make it actually work. My book on doing that is selling reasonably well, and there's a lot of it on the web, so it's clearly information that's needed.

 

Microsoft:

 

Build a worse mousetrap, and no matter how much your marketeers sing the world will NOT beat a path to your door.

 

Kind of a "well duh" moment, eh?

 

-Noel

 

+1

 

Apropos of that, I saw this thread on the Technet forum:

 

Microsoft has degraded our Windows 7 experience on purpose by drop-loading this Windows 8-looking IE10 bullsh!t on our systems via Windows Update. I've held back for few weeks to give it an honest try, but here I come tonight to complain and lo and behold there's already a thread here, right on top.

 

These flat, gray scroll thumbs cause a serious reduction in usability. When it's difficult to see something it's difficult to see it, no matter how much you practice trying to get used to it.

 

Some pretty vigorous statements throughout, well deserved. Assuming it was you who posted that (and I apologize if it wasn't), did you ever find a solution for this issue (other than staying on IE9 or dumping IE altogether)?

 

 

 

 

... We've seen the golden age of computing come and go.

 

^ Exactly my feeling. In the not-too-distant future everything is going to be dumbed-down, walled-gardened, clouded, monthly-subscribed, and in general screwed up for the users in every form imaginable.

 

Enjoy W7 while it lasts, for beyond Se7en lies the abyss ...

 

The same can be said of WinXP. I enjoyed WinXP while it lasted. Still enjoy it with Embedded updates hack. Windows 7/Vista is for many users (including me) already dumbed-down, locked down from customization, and in general screwed up (hence the need for Classic Shell) :) Windows 8 is only the next-generation of dumbing down. Things will mostly remain at the Windows 8/Apple level of dumbing down for next few years I think. Microsoft suddenly started equating iOS/Android OSes with desktop OSes hence the extra torture for customers.

 

 

Speaking of things that got screwed up, is there any way for the Classic Shell folks to reconstitute the 3D scrollbar button in IE10/11? The new button is a faint gray blob that's really hard to pinpoint, and even if you change it to a dark shade it's still just a flat block that hardly stands out from its surroundings. This slows down your work as your eyes have to methodically look for it, rather than just seeing it at a glance.

 

--JorgeA



#81
NoelC

NoelC

    Software Engineer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,597 posts
  • Joined 08-April 13
  • OS:Windows 8.1 x64
  • Country: Country Flag


Some pretty vigorous statements throughout, well deserved. Assuming it was you who posted that (and I apologize if it wasn't), did you ever find a solution for this issue (other than staying on IE9 or dumping IE altogether)?

 

Heh, yeah, that was me, and yes, I have a reasonable workaround, though not as fully integrated as it could be:

 

I mentioned in that thread in my November 22, 2013 post that I now use a CSS snippet to redefine the scroll thumb coloring to a darker gray in IE.  Makes it a lot easier to see, though it does not provide hover animation.  It works with IE10 and IE11:

 

html {

scrollbar-base-color: darkgray;

}

 

 

Note the darker scroll thumbs in this screen grab:

 

IEScrollbars.png

 

-Noel



#82
NoelC

NoelC

    Software Engineer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,597 posts
  • Joined 08-April 13
  • OS:Windows 8.1 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

And let me reiterate that whomever in Microsoft Marketing that thought up the BS phrases "skeuomorphism is bad" and "digitally authentic is good" is an evil, manipulative twit and ought to be barred from working in high tech forever.

 

It's hard not to hate Microsoft with people like that setting policy.

 

-Noel



#83
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 15,760 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

And let me reiterate that whomever in Microsoft Marketing that thought up the BS phrases "skeuomorphism is bad" and "digitally authentic is good" is an evil, manipulative twit and ought to be barred from working in high tech forever.

 

It's hard not to hate Microsoft with people like that setting policy.

 

-Noel

:yes: I personally would extend the bar to  mid- and low-tech also. ;)

 

Since they are very apt at spreading bull§**t, I would find a career in fertilizing fields (manure spreading) very suitable for them.  

 

jaclaz



#84
xpclient

xpclient

    XP was my idea. 3rd party apps make the garbage after it my idea

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 357 posts
  • Joined 30-July 05
  • OS:XP Pro x64
  • Country: Country Flag

These are the designers at Microsoft who are considered "cool": http://www.usatoday....-chief/9784345/ I don't know how they conclude that they are successful :D


Impossible to run the garbage Windows OSes after XP without third party fixes.


#85
NoelC

NoelC

    Software Engineer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,597 posts
  • Joined 08-April 13
  • OS:Windows 8.1 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Seems like deep market penetration by Windows 8 ought to be a criterion for success, but hey, that's me.

 

Ugh, I clicked on the video and listened for a few seconds.  I actually heard the words "it's not about trying to change people, it's about trying to bring out the best in what we already do".  Who coaches these people to be so devious?

 

I think I need a shower.

 

-Noel



#86
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 15,760 posts
  • Joined 23-July 04
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

I think I need a shower.

You need one of these ;):

Spoiler

 
 
As a side note, I would be happy to translate points #1 and #2 here:
http://www.workintel...ools-workforce/
 
 

Working without some key high tech tools in the workplace can end up more counterproductive than cost-conscious. In fact, some are free and just need to be enabled by a manager. And, often, the right tools enable your office the perks of information mobility; which can lead to higher productivity and efficiency in the workplace. Here are our picks for the seven high tech tools your workforce can’t live without in most professional jobs.
1. A Tablet with the Right Business Apps

Purchasing an iPad or Android tablet is only the first (expensive) step to being connected and productive wherever you are. Integrating that slate of glass and circuits into your work, with the things you do every day to connect the dots, is a much longer walk.

So grab these tested apps of productivity for your tablet: “7 Business Apps Every Professional Should Download” and others that include alternative keyboards, texting tools, printing apps and better email, for starters. The sky really is the limit; you just have to find the apps that cater to your job and workflow best.
2. A Better Keyboard for that Tablet

If you’re going to pretend to really manage email and work on documents with your go-anywhere tablet, you want a keyboard for that thing. Not a huge bag-hogging thing, but not a flimsy board that reminds you of your friends’ Palm Pilot, either. We concur with the Wirecutter’s recommendation of the Logitech’s Bluetooth Easy-Switch Keyboard for iPads and Android tablets, and recommend the upgraded Type Cover (distinct from the “Touch Cover”) for Windows 8 tablets.

into the merged #1&2 ;):

1#2. Get a §@ç#ing laptop with Windows 7 while it lasts, INSTEAD, you dumb@§§!  :realmad:

 

jaclaz


Edited by jaclaz, 08 June 2014 - 12:31 PM.


#87
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,813 posts
  • Joined 08-April 10
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Thanks, @NoelC. I tried various color settings for the IE11 scrollbar button. The result is always the same -- a flat rectangle that's hard to tell apart from its surroundings. Black is better than gray, but it still doesn't hold a candle to what we had in IE8 and 9. (And IE8 is superior to IE9 in that respect since it does have that animation.)

 

 

Still curious to learn whether it'd be possible for the Classic Shell (Classic IE) folks to bring back that 3D scrollbar button if they decided to.

 

@xpclient?  :)

 

--JorgeA

 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users