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How much damage did you see on 8-to-8.1 update?


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16 replies to this topic

#1
shae

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The 8.1 update/upgrade process is just as I feared: simply a full new OS install over an existing OS, with all the mess that that entails. I updated from an ISO file, but what I see on the web suggests the Store-based update is just the same, other than the download and initiation mechanism.

What collateral damage did you see after the update? Did you update from the Store or by other means?

"Keep your settings", yeah right. It wouldn't even keep the wallpaper! Firewall half doesn't work (plus a host of "unknwon devices" in Device Manager, probably related), VirtualBox damaged, QtTabBar a bit funny, touchpad drivers gone (meticulously tweaked in the registry), graphics driver untweaked, Explorer/shell settings and tweaks gone. That's on a superficial first look. I'm afraid to try running any of the major programs installed. :) But hey, LockHunter still seems functional, and other than "You have new programs to open this file type" nags the image viewer is still associated.

On top of that I can't activate, nor even find a Microsoft phone number for activation issues. The 8.1 setup doesn't accept 8.0 keys (why?), so I used a setup key I found on Microsoft's site. My assumption is that activation doesn't work because the setup key was of a different type than the real key I have. Way to go, Microsoft.

I don't have time for this mess right now, but even restoring a System Image of the pre-upgrade isn't easy to do because 8.1 won't restore an image created with 8.0! Since I can't find the Win8 disc, and the ISO is on a computer that's currently without a PSU, all I have to do is find a torrent for the ISO (computer didn't come with an OS disc, of course). :)

 

And Microsoft now plans on releasing updates in this form, and almost at the rate of Chrome "major" updates? Oh, dear.

 

EDIT: Haven't tried these, but for Core and non-KMS (I think) Pro setup keys for 8.1 see here:

http://forums.mydigi...-1-generic-keys
 


Edited by shae, 22 July 2014 - 09:29 AM.

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#2
jaclaz

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Well, updating via the MS update mechanism (as opposed to "self standing" downloadable files such as "Service Packs" has been a known nightmare since a few years) just like anything lately from the good MS guys, the 8.1 update is a mess.

 

JFYI:

http://www.msfn.org/...-pack-2-for-w7/

 

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#3
dencorso

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With all due respect, your punctuation got me confused... dubbio.gif
 

Well, updating via the MS update mechanism (as opposed to "self standing" downloadable files such as "Service Packs" has been a known nightmare since a few years) just like anything lately from the good MS guys, the 8.1 update is a mess.


Well, updating via the MS update mechanism (as opposed to "self standing" downloadable files such as "Service Packs") has been a known nightmare since a few years, just like anything lately from the good MS guys: the 8.1 update is a mess!


Is that what you meant?



#4
shae

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jaclaz: So you're on 7 then and didn't try the 8.1 "upgrade"?

 

I used 7 only on other people's computers, or to check/test specific things. 8 is technically fine once tweaked (sadly that's a lot of work).


Edited by shae, 20 July 2014 - 10:18 AM.


#5
jaclaz

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@dencorso

My bad (wrong placement of brackets)

I will re-word it as:

1) Well, updating via the MS update mechanism (as opposed to "self standing" downloadable files such as "Service Packs") has been a known nightmare since a few years.

 2) Just like anything lately from the good MS guys, the 8.1 update is a mess.

 

This way the message is more clear:

1) NOT "news", NOT "surprising", it is a flawed, basically "wrong" mechanism

2) the good MS guys are committing suicide, slowly but in a steady manner, managing to make things worse at each and every "enhancement". (on the other hand GOOD things, like the WOF driver, are untold or unpublicized/undocumented).

 

 

@shae

I am (proudly) on NT 4.00, Windows 2000 and  XP (and bragging a bit about it ;)).

 

Which does not mean that I don't have to deal with Windows 7 machines or the dreaded 8/8.1 ones :( from time to time.

 

Usually I have no particular issues with 7 (set apart the mentioned updates mechanism and the unmentioned reknown stupidity of UAC), but still I use the same custom made sticks I used to NOT touch Vista :ph34r: :

http://www.msfn.org/...xp/#entry807225

to try avoiding touching Windows 8/8.1, whenever I can.

 

And yes, I had at least three friends that came to me with "half botched" machines after having attempted the update from Windows 8 to 8.1, so I understand how you feel.

 

jaclaz


Edited by jaclaz, 20 July 2014 - 10:36 AM.


#6
submix8c

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ISO vs the Store -appears- to be a different operation.

http://windows.micro...dows-8-tutorial

 

If your PC is currently running Windows 8 or Windows RT, it's free to update to Windows 8.1 or Windows RT 8.1. And unlike previous updates to Windows, you'll get this update from the Windows Store.

...and

 

There are a few things you should do before you start installing.

1. Back up your files. Although your files and apps come with you when you update to Windows 8.1 or Windows RT 8.1, it's a good idea to make sure that your files are backed up first by setting up File History.

Here is more info on using that ISO as opposed to via the Store -

http://www.askvg.com...n-installation/

Yep, you "blew" all of the previous Installation stuff, but what you now have you can proceed to Activate.

More about that Product Key silliness and a couple more "tricks" -

http://www.howtogeek...-windows-8-key/

A couple of more "tricks" -

http://www.intowindo...from-microsoft/

 

Quite simply, Windows 8.1 as a "standalone" (via ISO) requires Windows 8.1 Product Key. There's been another topic or two here that points to "how to get an ISO" (jaclaz' commented?). You didn't do your homework, I'm afraid. Now about that EI.CFG file...

===

--EDIT! Can you clarify your initial post? I was under the impression you had already done 8.0->8.1, or are you refering to the Update-1 ("rollup") which I also had thought you had done?

===

If you google this

"windows 8" "8.1" "upgrade" "product key"

you'll get a wealth of information, several more tps will show viia the "www.eightforums.com". ICYMI, absolutely nothing that MS has you do is straightforward. Also google this.

"windows 8" "8.1" "upgrade" "from iso" -preview

Edited by submix8c, 20 July 2014 - 04:29 PM.

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#7
shae

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Thanks submix8c, I've been through it all and more. :)

Store and ISO are different in terms of the in-Windows initial part (before restart), and the setup key issue, but the rest, the real work, is the same as far as I can tell. Like the Microsoft page you linked says, after restart it takes quite a long while (longer than a refresh install I believe) and there's a semi-final Settings phase. And like shown here, there's "Setting up" and "Setting up a few more things", multiple restarts, License, "installing your apps".

What I meant by the 8/8.1 activation issue is after doing what these sites advocate, I actually took the setup key from the Microsoft page they link to. This key is the problem. Probably all these sites had Win 8 Pro before the update. "Core" likely needs a different key in the setup (the setup accepts both Core and Pro) if you don't want trouble later when trying to activate with a real 8 key.

I did quite a lot of homework, in fact, including trying it first in a VM. It's just that the VM didn't have much installed or tweaked, so beyond the wallpaper change I didn't notice the problem. I also didn't try to activate it.

Clarification: I updated 8 -> "8.1 with Update" (that's the latest Microsoft ISO release for Win8, no point in updating to 8.1, then applying "Update 1" separately).


Edited by shae, 20 July 2014 - 04:54 PM.


#8
submix8c

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EI.CFG and PID.TXT need to be set up for -your- edition of Windows 8, since Core and Professional are -absolutely- different keys! I thought that would have been found in your research. :unsure: There's a website (dellwindowsreinstallationguide) that will help more with the confusion/differences/whatyoumayneed. There's Retail (purchased) and OEM (key embedded in the BIOS) as well AFAICT and that needs to be reflected in the EI.CFG also. As said here and multiple other sites, MS has made Win8/8.1/8.1Update1 reeeel hard to get past -and- not wipe your install apparently, even for legitimate use.

 

Windows 8 For Dummies summed up in one sentence -

Install Windows 8 clean or Upgrade, we don't care, just do -exactly- like we want or suffer the consequences (and you will).


Edited by submix8c, 20 July 2014 - 05:57 PM.

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#9
shae

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As far as I understand EI.CFG is only to automate things during setup? That's not what I needed, and anyway I'm past this stage. Do you know specifically of a way to turn Pro to Core without a reinstall (nor a masqueraded reinstall, like this "upgrade")? A simple and harmless way to be able to use my Core key would be nice, but not crucial as I've turned to a KMS server emulator to activate it. If only there was an emulator to get all my settings and software back. :)


Edited by shae, 21 July 2014 - 09:34 AM.


#10
submix8c

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Yeah, the EI.CFG specifically states WHICH one - "Core" or "Pro" / OEM or Retail. You didn't google that website with beaucoupe info? (dellwindowsreinstallationguide) Better check it out so you'll know what's going on - it's VERY explicit -and- provides the "trick" keys (BOTH of them). ;) Basically, you messed up by using a Pro key instead of a Core key. :( I think you may be out of luck sans reinstall -or- restore the 8.0 then upgrade again. :unsure: so check that website. I haven't given a direct link because I'm not sure if it would be considered "shady/warezey" although it doesn't appear to be. There -appears- to be -older- downloader files that may need used, depending on what you have. You've apparently used the -newer- ones. DO check that website out. Seriously since BOOM it jumps up first link!

 

HTH

 

P.S. EI.CFG automates nothing - it simply "automatically selects" Edition and whether Retail/OEM/Volume - thought you knew that?


Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#11
NoelC

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The 8.1 update/upgrade process is just as I feared: simply a full new OS install over an existing OS, with all the mess that that entails.

 

I bought a Win 8.1 disc in a box just to ensure I could get a full, clean install.

 

At first blush it seems like sending Microsoft a couple hundred bucks for nothing, but boy that's been money well spent from everything I've read.  I'm sorry it's worked out to be difficult for you.

 

-Noel



#12
shae

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EI.CFG automates nothing - it simply "automatically selects" Edition 

I'd call that automate. :)

 

Noel, the ISO images you can get online are fine, it's just the update process that's FUBARed.

 

Anyway, I struggled half a day to clean up a whole bunch of "Unknown" devices under Network adapters, which I think broke Miracast (but I'm no longer sure of anything after so many registry edits, arcane netsh commands, installs, uninstalls, restarts). Most of them were firewall filter drives, some were VirtualBox's. Ultimately what cleaned them up, notably the firewall's, was install/uninstall/install of VirtualBox.

 

The cause is probably what the Microsoft guy mentions in the 9th post here:

 

Windows migrates the SCM driver database during an OS upgrade, but does not migrate the NetCfg network driver database during an OS upgrade.

Edited by shae, 22 July 2014 - 09:30 AM.


#13
NoelC

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Good to know that the ISOs can be had.  But I was moving from Win 7 to 8.1 directly anyway.

 

I chose the "Update and preserve data" feature, where it was a clean install but preserved data in Windows.old (for a short while).  I presume that would work from 8.0 to 8.1 as well.

 

I only raised my head here to mention that the clean install seems to have led to none of the kinds of problems you mentioned.

 

-Noel



#14
HarryTri

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I chose the "Update and preserve data" feature, where it was a clean install but preserved data in Windows.old (for a short while).

 

How is it possible? I mean a clean install starts with a disk format, doesn't it? Except if the preserved data are copied to another drive first. :unsure:


I always love Windows XP!


#15
shae

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I would not expect problems with a clean install. But the expectation with 8.1 was for it to be an SP as far as installation is concerned. A yearly reinstall of an OS is not my idea of fun, or productivity.

 

Harry, a clean install doesn't have to mean format. It's just not over an existing OS.



#16
NoelC

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HarryTri, there was a way through it without formatting.  I don't remember the specific prompts any more.

 

It put virtually everything even remotely involved with the OS into a Windows.old folder, which it then proceeded to delete things from a few days later.  I already knew it would do that and I had a separate backup.  The other stuff, e.g., folders I have like \BIN, \COMMON, etc. it just left in place.

 

 

Shae, I'm thinking maybe the thing to do in this silly "new release a year" environment is to always wait for the SP1 or .1 release, and install that afresh.  Get to know the .0 version in virtual machines.  At least that philosophy would require a full install only every couple of years.

 

And yes, I agree that a full system reinstall isn't something one should have to do often at all.

 

-Noel



#17
shae

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Whether or not it's best to wait for the first substantial update of an OS, until now no point release required a reinstall so those who didn't want to wait were in for a surprise. At least those who tweaked or installed non-trivial software. :)

 

We may see where things are headed with 8.2 in a few months.


Edited by shae, 22 July 2014 - 06:57 PM.





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