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LoneCrusader

XUSBSUPP - eXtended USB Supplement for Windows 95 OSR2

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LoneCrusader    95

OK, Why If i Connect any USB Flash Drive = Unknown Device and Then i get stable BSOD?!

I Try Install HID Drivers from Windows 98 Distribution Setup = Driver has been installed, but not work properly (with USBSUPP or this XUSBSUPP)

On Windows 98: USB Mice works fine, but Flash Drives not working

On Windows ME: USB Mice and USB Flash Drives working fine.

Conclusion: Windows 95 - not work properly with USB always

What does the BSOD say specifically?

USB Keyboards, Mice, Joysticks, and no doubt many other devices are not supported under 95, PERIOD. Just because it works under 98 or ME does not mean it will work under 95. In fact you can safely assume that NO WDM driver designed for Windows 98 or later will work under 95. This includes the HID driver stack.

If you really want something to test and occupy your time, download the Windows NT4 DDK and extract the contents of the \win9x\usb\ddk\hid\bin folder. This HID driver stack was designed for Windows 95. That should keep you busy for a while. If you can get it to work, please let us know.

Edited by LoneCrusader

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athanasios    0

Hi!

I tried this to this Mobo:

http://eu.msi.com/support/mb/K8N_Neo_Platinum.html

 

Note it states there: NVIDIA nForce 3/4 Series board DO NOT support Windows® 98/ME

(Now how the Mobo driver is there available to download-even for 95-I do not understand. Anyway the driver fails to install stating that I do not have 98/ME.)

 

Now back to USB:

 

USB hub on Monitor with mouse attached doesn't work.

If mouse attached on Mobo USB doesn't work either.

 

In Devices I have 4 or 5 ? regarding USB and PCI (hmm I have a board with 4 USBs extensions on a PCI slot).

 

Now you mention that I have to delete these to install.

But when I delete them the keyboard doesn't function (PS/2)!

So no way to delete them.

 

So i proceed with install.

 

After restart system reverts to 16colors 640x480 from 32bit mentioning that display driver is incorrect (version is 77.72).  I ignore this and go to remove your USB drivers. But system protests that there is insufficient memory to do so. Actually sometimes even Control Panel doesn't load due to this. You cannot run anything-even DOS or notepad.

 

I downgraded to 8bit color, 640x480 and restarted hoping I would get some more memory (maybe irrelevant).

 

Finally, I succeeded to uninstall your USB package and restarting, display went back to normal.

 

I would recommend to mention this issue and provide for a command prompt way to uninstall your USB driver pack.

 

BTW: Ever heard of any custom/unofficial nForce driver for 95?

 

Thanks.

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LoneCrusader    95

Hi!

I tried this to this Mobo:

http://eu.msi.com/support/mb/K8N_Neo_Platinum.html

 

Note it states there: NVIDIA nForce 3/4 Series board DO NOT support Windows® 98/ME

(Now how the Mobo driver is there available to download-even for 95-I do not understand. Anyway the driver fails to install stating that I do not have 98/ME.)

...

BTW: Ever heard of any custom/unofficial nForce driver for 95?

Very strange. I actually used almost the exact same board in the machine on which most of the extensive testing of this package was done.

I believe manufacturers make that disclaimer just so they won't have to actively support 9x users on their boards. Kind of like saying here's the driver but you're on your own to use it, don't come to us for help if it breaks or doesn't work.

As for "drivers," when it comes to the motherboard itself essentially all the package contains is a set of .INF files that properly identify the devices on the board by name. If you install 98SE or ME and use it to unpack the driver package, you should be able to copy the INF's to Windows 95 and still use them. This will not give you 95 compatible drivers for any onboard devices such as Audio or LAN however. Also, the 98/ME version of the AGP GART driver may not work under 95, in which case you could try to track down an older driver package that does have an nVidia GART driver for Windows 95 and use it.

 

Now back to USB:

USB hub on Monitor with mouse attached doesn't work.

If mouse attached on Mobo USB doesn't work either.

I would think that a USB hub on a monitor would need to be physically connected to the USB on your motherboard in order to interface with it...

In any case USB Keyboards/Mice/Joysticks and other such peripherals are NOT supported under Windows 95, even when using this package. These devices are not properly supported until early Beta versions of Windows 98, and there is no way to fix this without extensive reverse engineering and backporting significant code from Windows 98. Trust me, I have spent many hours trying. A solution might be developed, but it probably would not be free.

 

In Devices I have 4 or 5 ? regarding USB and PCI (hmm I have a board with 4 USBs extensions on a PCI slot).

Now you mention that I have to delete these to install.

But when I delete them the keyboard doesn't function (PS/2)!

So no way to delete them.

Why do you already have USB devices showing up? Did you attempt to install XUSBSUPP on a system where Microsoft's original USBSUPP was already installed? This can also cause problems...

Windows 95 may not be able to properly support add-in USB cards without some of the backported code from Windows 98 that I mentioned before. I remember reading somewhere years ago that 95 could not support PCI USB Add-In cards. In any case, if it is a USB 2.0 card, then no natively 95 compatible drivers exist.

In any case this should not affect your PS2 keyboard though. Try removing the PCI card before installing.

 

So i proceed with install.

After restart system reverts to 16colors 640x480 from 32bit mentioning that display driver is incorrect (version is 77.72). I ignore this and go to remove your USB drivers. But system protests that there is insufficient memory to do so. Actually sometimes even Control Panel doesn't load due to this. You cannot run anything-even DOS or notepad.

I downgraded to 8bit color, 640x480 and restarted hoping I would get some more memory (maybe irrelevant).

Finally, I succeeded to uninstall your USB package and restarting, display went back to normal.

I would recommend to mention this issue and provide for a command prompt way to uninstall your USB driver pack.

...

Thanks.

How much memory does this machine have? Did you have any patches or tweaks in place for using more than 512MB of RAM, especially rloew's RAM patch? This package updates VMM.VXD, which can overwrite patched files. In this case the patches need to be removed before XUSBSUPP install and reapplied after installation is complete.

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athanasios    0

Thanks for quick reply!

 

Hmm, I did yet another fresh install of 95C without installing your patch.

 

1. Of course monitor USB hub is connected to PC. I am not stupid enough to believe that monitor driver will suffice! LOL!

2. I cannot remove the USB extension card, because I use this PC (I am posting from it now)!

 

I have 2GB memory and didn't use rloew's patch. I just wrote:

MaxPhysPage=30000 (=768MB), which is displayed correctly in 95C.

 

Now it gets more funny:

 

Even without your patch I received an insufficient memory error when trying to run DOS prompt from Start menu, or a couple of DOS programs from Run.

 

But I can Run edit, chkdsk, etc. Also typing 'command' in Run gives me the DOS prompt without issues. A 'mem' gives:

total/used/free:  66MB, ?, 768MB.

 

Yes I saw the inf's, but if they don't work, as you stated, no need to bother about them. Missing LAN is bad though:no shared folders, no internet.

Anyway, no big problem. I installed 95C for fun and to run old stuff (read mainly games) without opening some other vintage PCs I have installed it to (to avoid con/discon cables for CRT, keyboard, speakers, ...).

 

Let me see if how much memory is displayed now when I go through F8 directly to command. Something goes wrong there.

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athanasios    0

More crazy stuff:

 

F8 > command prompt: 2MB memory

and in Windows cannot open anything dos related (unlike I mentioned before: edit, etc) from Run.

 

But when I exit by Alt-F4 > MS-DOS mode (again gives 2MB) and 'exit' back to Windows insufficient memory errors disappear!

 

Don't have time to disable/change size of swap and see what happens.

 

-

 

Hmm, got too off topic here. Maybe a MOD please split this?

 

I hope I provided helpful info.

 

-

 

GART? With 128MB card and to use 512MB (BIOS) does this mean it would eat these 512 from the 768 that 95 sees or from the rest memory? If it is the latter would it cause issues with 95 as in total I would exceed 1GB?

 

My time is over. I will log in after ~ 21-23 hrs again.

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LoneCrusader    95

I'm not surprised that you are seeing the memory errors with that much RAM. I was never able to even get a 9x system to boot with more than 512MB of RAM no matter what settings I tweaked in SYSTEM.INI. I would see the "Insufficient memory..." error always, without fail. So I purchased rloew's patch and never looked back. You may be able to get it to work, but you're in for a lot of trial and error. I think the RAM issue is the root of your problem; until you solve it then you can't get reliable results with XUSBSUPP. :}

The motherboard driver INFs are separate from the Audio/LAN drivers and from the GART driver. Essentially all they do is inform you that you have an nForce Chipset in the Device Manager, rather than saying "PCI System Management Bus" or something to that effect. The GART driver and the Audio/LAN drivers will each have their own separate INFs. It is possible that the 98/ME GART driver may work under 95 because it is a .VXD driver and not a WDM (.SYS) driver. It is also possible that the Audio/LAN drivers may work under 95 as well, but this is more doubtful. In their cases I would look for an older 95-compatible driver package for similar hardware and experiment.

I'm not familiar enough with GART drivers or anything to do with GART to advise you on that point... other than the testing system I mentioned I have virtually all Intel-based hardware, and Intel systems don't use a GART driver. I'm not certain what exactly a GART driver does or whether it is even necessary. :unsure:

 

What video card are you using? Maybe it at least will have 95-compatible drivers!

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rloew    93

PCI USB Cards compatable with USB 1.1 should work with 95C.

USB 2.0, USB Ethernet, Keyboards and Mice require the 95/98 hybrid setup.

SO far I have not been able to use USB Audio.

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athanasios    0

Thanks for info. Seems that I will not get any benefit from installing those inf's (only ethernet I will miss). Mouse I can use another one, audio I am using an old SoundBlaster card.

 

-

 

Problem solved: The Virtual Memory (swap) was responsible. I suppose it added to 768MB and gave the insufficient memory errors.

I disabled it and everything seems to work fine.

 

But 2 questions remain:

 

Why did I manage to load W95 and get the errors inside the GUI instead of crashing while loading, like when I first booted after installation?

 

Why after exiting to DOS mode and restarting W95 problem seems to disappear? (Is some memory lost somewhere and thus I go under the 768MB barrier?)

 

-

 

card: GeForce 5900. I used 77.72 with the known error messages on startup and nVidia panel not working.

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LoneCrusader    95

Thanks for info. Seems that I will not get any benefit from installing those inf's (only ethernet I will miss). Mouse I can use another one, audio I am using an old SoundBlaster card.

 

-

 

Problem solved: The Virtual Memory (swap) was responsible. I suppose it added to 768MB and gave the insufficient memory errors.

I disabled it and everything seems to work fine.

 

But 2 questions remain:

 

Why did I manage to load W95 and get the errors inside the GUI instead of crashing while loading, like when I first booted after installation?

 

Why after exiting to DOS mode and restarting W95 problem seems to disappear? (Is some memory lost somewhere and thus I go under the 768MB barrier?)

 

-

 

card: GeForce 5900. I used 77.72 with the known error messages on startup and nVidia panel not working.

Unfortunately I have no idea how the memory errors (or lack of them under certain conditions) affected your setup. :no: I was never even able to boot with more than 512MB of RAM until I purchased rloew's patch, so I'm surprised you got as far as you did. Maybe rloew or someone else can elaborate on this...

Have a look at this thread, especially a few posts in where it turns chiefly to nVidia drivers. Since no one could tell me which version of the nVidia driver package was the last one to work 100% properly with Windows 95, I ran a series of experiments to find out. You may be able to use the version in my last post if it supports your card. If it doesn't, you may be able to pull the nVidia Control Panel files from that package and use them with the later drivers.

 

@dencorso - Maybe the thread I linked should be added to your "nVidia GeForce 9x Relevant Threads?" I actually had to search for that thread myself to find it again! :angel

Edited by LoneCrusader

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athanasios    0

Bad luck!

Memory problems came back.

I went the way down till 32MB. The strange thing is that at some settings under 768 it works whereas if you lower it it doesn't. And then you go more down and it works and then more and it doesn't... This doesn't make sense. There must be something else there besides the MaxPhysPage barrier.

 

So I will keep it 32MB and another 64 for swap and see what happens.

 

Also SB (CT4750) 'worked' even though installations crashed (first due to insuf. memory) then due to lack of internet-I suppose it affected only update. '' > because DOS mode legacy device doesn't: aka you cannot configure it because resources conflict with PCI bridge resources-here is the missing mobo drivers for W95 we were talking before-another time I will try with those infs and see if I can do something.

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YURBAN    0

Is your Win95 OSR2.5 ENU? Or is it RUS?

English of Course, OSR 2.5 ENU, i Updated Bios to Official Update Release From A-Trend (1.33 03 ATC-1020), Few Bios Features and Same Problem, But If i Have RAM problems, i cannot play Lighting 3 F22 with 3Dfx and other older Games w/o Problems...

 

I Tried Using USB Drivers from Windows 98 SE EN Distribution (Install From A Disc... Then Inf) But no Luck Too..

 

I Think Not All USB Mouses and PS/2 Work Properly with Old Hardware, Cause Port Speed (PS/2 or USB) is too Slow...

 

By The Way, Before i Start Testing my Old Rig, Ive been Replaced all Older Cap's in PSU and on the Mobo to New

Edited by YURBAN

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rloew    93

PS/2 Mice and Keyboards work with Windows 95.

Neither USB Mice nor Keyboards work with Windows 95.

Only a major Patch that Lonecrusader and I developed can run USB Mice or Keyboards.

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GMP    0

I just wanted to say a big Thankyou for developing this and making it available. It's an absolute godsend to someone like me who's just rebuilt an old P233 from bits & pieces to run some old music software on W95, and who completely forgot USB wasn't supported. Transferring files via CDRWs wasn't an inspiring prospect.

As warned, my USB MIDI keyboard won't work but it can at least be powered via the USB lead while using a different MIDI cable. Windows uses the supplied drivers but installs it as a USB control device rather than a Sound, Video & Game controller (which I think is the case under W98). I tried doing it manually but I expect you could've told me that would be a waste of time too!

Anyway, thanks very much!

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