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go98

SATA installation

33 posts in this topic

> Apparently you've never had a system with an Intel ICH5

> or later chipset. While they may be available for some

> third-party SATA controller chips, drivers are NOT

> available for most chipset-integrated SATA controllers.

I do believe that most motherboards made with Intel 800-series chipsets (at least 84x, 86x and 87x) have ICH5 chipsets (sometimes ICH5r) and have full win-9x/me driver support.

For example, this board:

i865PEa-7ILFR

http://global.aopen.com/products_detail.aspx?auno=943

claims ICH5r, and points to Intel chipset driver v5.1.1.1002.

ftp://asftp.aopen.com.tw/pub/driver/mb/intel/inf/intel_chipset_v5.1.1.1002.zip

Unpacking that and it does contain 9x/me files (various ICH5 cat files). Besides, I seem to recall that ICH5/ICH5r implimentation of SATA controller was buggy or faulty in some way. Also there are many socket 478 and 775 motherboards with Via chipsets with onboard sata controllers with full 9x/me driver support.

> > No system in daily use, regardless what OS it's running,

> > should be using 40 or 80 gb IDE drives

>

> I depend on them every day. Have for the past 10 years.

> No signs of any trouble, and no plans to change either.

I have a few win-98 systems that have 80 gb drives and are in daily use. And I know the drives are at or have exceed their MTBF and could fail at any time. I still stand by my advice I would give to anyone in a similar situation - that yes, the 40 and 80 (particularly 80 gb WD) drives are very reliable, but they will not last forever and the only way to know their true health is to look at their SMART data every once in a while. And I certainly wouldn't build a new win-98 system or rebuild an existing one using an IDE drive today. I'd rapidly run out of storage space if I did, and I imagine so would most people.

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Also, if you have modern hardware it would probably be easier just to run Win9x on DOSBOX.

While "possible" I highly doubt that DOSBOX would be a "desirable" method of running Windows 9x. It's good for DOS programs as intended, but probably VirtualPC or VMware either one would be better choices for virtualizing the whole 9x OS.

 

What are the advantages of DosBox compared to other Virtual software?

DOSBOX actually runs under Windows 9x for one, while others are 2K/XP and up only.

I haven't used it extensively yet but it does appear to be useful for running older DOS games on newer systems where the CPU is too fast and renders the game unplayable.

Best of both worlds? A newer, fast system to run 9x and Windows applications, while having DOSBOX installed to run older DOS programs that don't like the faster hardware.

 

I do believe that most motherboards made with Intel 800-series chipsets (at least 84x, 86x and 87x) have ICH5 chipsets (sometimes ICH5r) and have full win-9x/me driver support.

For example, this board:

i865PEa-7ILFR

http://global.aopen.com/products_detail.aspx?auno=943

claims ICH5r, and points to Intel chipset driver v5.1.1.1002.

ftp://asftp.aopen.com.tw/pub/driver/mb/intel/inf/intel_chipset_v5.1.1.1002.zip

Unpacking that and it does contain 9x/me files (various ICH5 cat files). Besides, I seem to recall that ICH5/ICH5r implimentation of SATA controller was buggy or faulty in some way. Also there are many socket 478 and 775 motherboards with Via chipsets with onboard sata controllers with full 9x/me driver support.

Intel does not provide any SATA controller drivers for Windows 9x. The boards you mentioned are perfectly compatible with Windows 9x so long as you set all SATA devices to Legacy/PATA compatibility mode. The Intel chipset driver packages are actually just text INF's that specifically identify common onboard devices. These are technically not even necessary and a system can run without them. No .VXD, .PDR, .SYS, or any other actual "driver" files are provided.

Other chipset manufacturers such as VIA may well provide drivers. I am not as familiar with them as I am with Intel-based systems.

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Also, if you have modern hardware it would probably be easier just to run Win9x on DOSBOX.

While "possible" I highly doubt that DOSBOX would be a "desirable" method of running Windows 9x. It's good for DOS programs as intended, but probably VirtualPC or VMware either one would be better choices for virtualizing the whole 9x OS.

 

What are the advantages of DosBox compared to other Virtual software?

DOSBOX actually runs under Windows 9x for one, while others are 2K/XP and up only.

I haven't used it extensively yet but it does appear to be useful for running older DOS games on newer systems where the CPU is too fast and renders the game unplayable.

Best of both worlds? A newer, fast system to run 9x and Windows applications, while having DOSBOX installed to run older DOS programs that don't like the faster hardware.

 

I do believe that most motherboards made with Intel 800-series chipsets (at least 84x, 86x and 87x) have ICH5 chipsets (sometimes ICH5r) and have full win-9x/me driver support.

For example, this board:

i865PEa-7ILFR

http://global.aopen.com/products_detail.aspx?auno=943

claims ICH5r, and points to Intel chipset driver v5.1.1.1002.

ftp://asftp.aopen.com.tw/pub/driver/mb/intel/inf/intel_chipset_v5.1.1.1002.zip

Unpacking that and it does contain 9x/me files (various ICH5 cat files). Besides, I seem to recall that ICH5/ICH5r implimentation of SATA controller was buggy or faulty in some way. Also there are many socket 478 and 775 motherboards with Via chipsets with onboard sata controllers with full 9x/me driver support.

Intel does not provide any SATA controller drivers for Windows 9x. The boards you mentioned are perfectly compatible with Windows 9x so long as you set all SATA devices to Legacy/PATA compatibility mode. The Intel chipset driver packages are actually just text INF's that specifically identify common onboard devices. These are technically not even necessary and a system can run without them. No .VXD, .PDR, .SYS, or any other actual "driver" files are provided.

Other chipset manufacturers such as VIA may well provide drivers. I am not as familiar with them as I am with Intel-based systems.

 

when you say other manufacturers may provide the drivers, is that mean integrated where the operating system loads the sata driver without needing ide legacy / compatibility mode or is it something that you would have to install later for sata devices to be properly configured or some other way that isn't automatically done with the motherboard? also with the sata add on cards that have 9x drivers, does that also have to be configured some different way or do the drivers automatically appear and load with the os install?

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Other chipset manufacturers such as VIA may well provide drivers. I am not as familiar with them as I am with Intel-based systems.

when you say other manufacturers may provide the drivers, is that mean integrated where the operating system loads the sata driver without needing ide legacy / compatibility mode or is it something that you would have to install later for sata devices to be properly configured or some other way that isn't automatically done with the motherboard? also with the sata add on cards that have 9x drivers, does that also have to be configured some different way or do the drivers automatically appear and load with the os install?
If a SATA chip/chipset manufacturer provides a driver for 9x, then yes, it can be used to install 9x without the need for Legacy IDE PATA mode but you must know how to integrate the driver into the SETUP process.

I don't know if it is possible to set up 9x without either legacy mode or pre-integrating the driver (or using rloew's patch as I do), I have never tried. rloew or others may know more about this.

No drivers will "automatically appear" and automatically load with the OS install, unless they were already included in the original 9x CABs. Ideally you need the drivers in place beforehand, whether installing from scratch or adding a new card. Another point in favor of rloew's patch, as it patches and uses the already existing 9x IDE driver.

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Other chipset manufacturers such as VIA may well provide drivers. I am not as familiar with them as I am with Intel-based systems.

when you say other manufacturers may provide the drivers, is that mean integrated where the operating system loads the sata driver without needing ide legacy / compatibility mode or is it something that you would have to install later for sata devices to be properly configured or some other way that isn't automatically done with the motherboard? also with the sata add on cards that have 9x drivers, does that also have to be configured some different way or do the drivers automatically appear and load with the os install?
If a SATA chip/chipset manufacturer provides a driver for 9x, then yes, it can be used to install 9x without the need for Legacy IDE PATA mode but you must know how to integrate the driver into the SETUP process.

I don't know if it is possible to set up 9x without either legacy mode or pre-integrating the driver (or using rloew's patch as I do), I have never tried. rloew or others may know more about this.

No drivers will "automatically appear" and automatically load with the OS install, unless they were already included in the original 9x CABs. Ideally you need the drivers in place beforehand, whether installing from scratch or adding a new card. Another point in favor of rloew's patch, as it patches and uses the already existing 9x IDE driver.

 

ok thanks, that seemed to clear up some confusion.

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SATA Cards are generally not recognized by Windows 9x so they run in compastability mode and you can install 9x and provide the Driver later assuming there is one.

Motherboard SATA Controllers are recognized incorrectly by the default Windows software so you are likely to crash before you can provide a Driver assuming one even exists. Most Motherboard SATA Controllers have no available 9x Drivers.

Inserting the Driver into the Setup process, or an even more complicated procedure, is mandatory for the few that do.

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Also, if you have modern hardware it would probably be easier just to run Win9x on DOSBOX.

Thanks, I had no knowledge of this. What are the advantages of DosBox compared to other Virtual software?

 

Been there, seen it, laughed, deleted.

 

On the DOSBOX Homepage, they describe Win98SE compatibility as extremely unstable, and very slow.

They recommend against it.

 

I have run W98SE in VMWare, VirtualBox and MS Virtual PC.

 

There it runs fine, as long as you do not need graphic acceleration (DirectX/OpenGL), which is not supported for W98SE in either.

 

As for me it's about old games that require DX9.0c and EAX 2.0 at least (not speaking of horesepower, Video-memory for high resolution, you name it), only hardware will do it.

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anyone else that actually has a sata pci adapter that boasts 98 support have any realworld experience..?

 

Me. I'm booting my fastest rig with a 60GB SATA SSD from a PCI add-in card with a VIA VT6421 chipset. VT6421A would work as well.

That chipset has the best driver-support, as it works from W9x to W10.

I have my SATA-DVD hooked to that controller as well.

I have a multi-boot configuration, and my XP Pro and W10 (and soon my Kali Linux) boot from the onboard ICH9R chipset in AHCI mode.

Advantage:

- All systems BUT W98SE have native trim, NCQ, and all that luxury because of AHCI.

Disadvantages:

- RLoew delivers software that enables TRIM on W98SE, which i do not have with the add-in card, so my W98SE-SSD will age a bit faster.

- needs one more PCI-slot, which sometimes is hard to get

- RLoews solution is a bit cheaper, although not much, though.

- more hassle while installing those systems.

 

I recommend against the SIL controllers, i have one, it was awkward at times, and is not fully supported on modern OSes.

 

Just my 2ct.

 

Cheers, Ragnar G.D.

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