The new Start Menu is a shadow of its former self

[JorgeA]

I've been using the Windows Technical Preview for a week now. While I intend to post the bulk of "first impressions" in @dencorso's thread of that name, I thought that this topic deserved its own discussion.

 

When I first heard that Microsoft was reviving the Start Menu for its next OS, I was delighted; and when I installed the TP and saw it in action for myself, I was pleased. It looked familiar enough.

 

Then I started working with it and slowly discovered that the similarities with the Vista and Windows 7 start menus are largely confined to just that -- the looks. In terms of functionality, compared to earlier versions it's limited in significant ways.

 

Let's start with the design. At first glance, it looks similar because it's divided into two vertical panes just as it's been since Windows XP. By default, the new Start Menu lists Metro "apps," Windows tools/accessories, and installed programs in the left pane, and a selection of Metro apps in the right pane, such as for the Windows Store, Skype, music, and Windows Feedback for TP testers. If you don't care or have any use for Metro apps, you can unpin them from the menu. If you unpin all of them, the right pane will disappear altogether and the menu is reminiscent of the one in Windows 95/98. Fortunately, you can use the right pane to add the usual Start Menu options such as Control Panel, Network, and the like. However, the actions needed to put them in the right pane are less than intuitive: if one of these is already pinned to the left pane, then you right-click on it and select "Pin to Start" (huh, I thought that's where I was already).

 

If not already pinned to the left pane, then the process for adding the "traditional" links to the right pane is somewhat laborious: you need to go into the Start Menu properties (by first opening the menu and only then right-clicking on it), select Customize under the Start Menu tab, and then check off each item that you want to add. But this will put the item in the LEFT pane. In order to get it into the right pane, you need to right-click on that item (as described above) or click-and-drag it over to the right pane. Then, to make more room for other listings in the left pane, you again right-click on the item there and select "Remove from this list."

 

The right pane will show the newly added items as relatively large squares (tiles) with an icon and the name of the feature or application, as if they were Metro apps. As a result, not only does the right pane clash visually with the text-oriented design of the left pane, but also the content is much less dense. You can make the tiles smaller, but then the text labels disappear and you're left with a bunch of unlabeled icons, some of which (like the icons for Documents and Pictures) look very much alike, and especially at that size.

 

With enough clicking and moving around, you can get a reasonable facsimile of the way things are arranged in the Vista and 7 start menus. (See screenshot below.) But I have not found a way (assuming that there is one) to get the left pane of the TP Start Menu to show installed applications that I've been using lately, as the Vista/7 Start Menu will do automatically for us.

 

Win10TP Start Menu and Desktop. Note the transparency in the DOS box; would that MSFT offered this option

(for window borders only; not crazy about the transparent window contents) for all windows in Windows 10

 

Speaking of programs used lately, there is no longer a "Recent Items" Start Menu item to give you a global list of recently opened files. In fact, an option for this isn't even available in the TP Start Menu properties. The Start Menu is generally less customizable than its predecesors. Previous versions offer more options for changing what the menu displays and what it searches for. For instance, in Vista/7 you can tell the search function to look for the term you want in communications (e-mail), favorites/history, files, and installed programs. There are no settings listed for these, either, in the TP Start Menu properties.

 

As a result, while also automatically offering to give you results from the Internet, the TP Start Menu search might or might not show you results that are on your own PC. I tried doing a search via the Start Menu for all PDF files (" *.pdf ") on my 7 system, and got numerous results -- but nothing at all in the TP Start Menu search even though there are PDFs in there already.

 

By the same token, in the Vista Start Menu, once you type your term in the search box, you get a list of matching items, and then two additional options to "Search Everywhere," which takes you to Windows Explorer search; or to "Search the Internet" which opens a new browser window with results from your chosen search engine.

 

One of the TP features that's most often complained about in the tester forums has to do with the new Search button (the magnifying glass) that Microsoft put next to the revived Start Menu. No one seems to have figured out yet what that button does that isn't already done by Start Menu Search, File Explorer search, and/or launching your browser to search the Web. As a result, the complaint is that it takes up valuable Taskbar real estate uselessly -- and there is apparently no way to disable it. Somebody has figured out how to hide it, but then the space where it sits is apparently still unavailable for other use.

 

Out of curiosity, I typed the names of a few programs I've installed, in both the Start Menu search and the dedicated search button. Most of the time the results are the same or very similar, but if you type (for example) "system restore" in each of these, then while the dedicated search button (right) will give you the sorts of results you'd expect from your PC (including "Create a restore point"), the Start Menu search (left) will give you but a single result, which when clicked on will take you to a Bing app offering results from the Web only -- not at all what one might expect.

 

    

 

On the other hand, if you type "restore point" in each of the two search functions, both the Start Menu search and the dedicated seach will yield the "Create a restore point" result. So the relative behaviors of the two search functions are unpredictable, or at least not yet widely understood.

 

    

 

 

The revived Start Menu in the Windows (10) Technical Preview is better than having no Start Menu, but it has a way to go to approach what users enjoyed in pre-Win8 versions. I hope that Microsoft will heed the feedback it's getting from its testers, and bring back the fuller Start Menu functionality and customizability that we are requesting, and in the process also allow users to fold the new dedicated search button's function into the Start Menu search.

 

Without these improvements, if I had to buy a new computer with Windows 10 on it, I would still opt for one of the alternative Start Menus devised for Windows 8, particularly the fine ones created by @Tihiy or @xpclient's Classic Shell team.

 

--JorgeA

 

[NoelC]

I realized it's a poor implementation after about a day and just switched to Classic Shell, which is better than the Win 10 effort, and actually better than any implementation of a Start Menu in any version of Windows.

 

Best of all, it maintains the continuity of experience I've had with it since wayyyy back when.  I've used it on every system since Vista since it really is better.

 

It's a real shame that Microsoft doesn't have the talent to make something like a Start Menu that's even as good as something they already did.  You have to think that either they're being directed to make it crappy, or they're incapable of making it anything but.  I'm not sure what's worse.

 

-Noel

[dencorso]

Tihiy's already proven the fundamental underpinnings still remain there. When MS gives up all that Metro nonsense, they can simply grab what's needed from 7 and just put it back. They didn't do it yet because they remain in love with Metro, that's all. Yet, there's plenty o' time for them to get to their senses before 7 SP1 goes EoS. And in the meantime, with every new Win they ship, 7 ultimate FPP will get yet cheaper, on eBay and similar places.

[j7n]

Where does the list of "All Apps" appear when the item is clicked? Can we get a "flyout" style cascaded menu listing the Start directory like in Win 98/2K? Without that I would consider the Start menu non-functional.

[My1]

I realized it's a poor implementation after about a day and just switched to Classic Shell, which is better than the Win 10 effort, and actually better than any implementation of a Start Menu in any version of Windows.

 

Best of all, it maintains the continuity of experience I've had with it since wayyyy back when.  I've used it on every system since Vista since it really is better.

 

It's a real shame that Microsoft doesn't have the talent to make something like a Start Menu that's even as good as something they already did.  You have to think that either they're being directed to make it crappy, or they're incapable of making it anything but.  I'm not sure what's worse.

 

-Noel

 

and the best thing is classic shell is that when you have an overly filled folder (like my Downloads) you can scroll in then via mousewheel/touchpad gesture, while in the Win7 startmenu you had to got to the top and bottom edges of the menu and wait, since the scrolling was also really slow...

[NoelC]

Where does the list of "All Apps" appear when the item is clicked? Can we get a "flyout" style cascaded menu listing the Start directory like in Win 98/2K? Without that I would consider the Start menu non-functional.

 

ClassicShell does all that - very well indeed - and has done so since Vista.  That's the point.

 

 

I'd prefer Microsoft work on other SUBSTANTIAL features of Windows.  We already have a perfectly good Start Menu in Classic Shell and Microsoft need worry no more about it.  Their implementations have never been as good as 3rd party software, and there's no reason to expect that to change.

 

-Noel

[win2kreviver]

I agree wholeheartedly.  Classic Shell is fantastic in Windows 10, it is fast and perfect for all the xp users that still use the OS.  I fail to understand why Microsoft still refuses this methodology to add as an option.  They are still fascinated by the Metro UI, and even if thy are, CS will put all those apps under one heading so they are easily and independently available (as of build 9860).

 

Win2kreviver

[My1]

if you ask me windows should go Back to the XP times where you could customize pretty much every pixel of your system...

but they should keep Aero glass, I really like that...

also since we are talking about classic shell, anyone an Idea how I can edit the Windows Aero Theme to move the shutown button above the user pic?

Edited October 30, 2014 by My1

[bookie32]

There is one basic flaw with the thinking here....lol

As I have pointed out a few times....Microsoft doesn't have the capacity to listen to those that give sound advice to them....

 

After all that was said about 8.0 I was supprised to see the release of Windows 8.0 or was I....not really...one thing I have learned over the years...Microsoft has the ideas and they don't come from any outside influences....lol

 

Even their own advisors for ergonomics pointed out that it would be a mistake....

 

I keep asking the same question over and over..."Who do they actually listen to?!

 

Just as tradition as shown...windows 8.0 was never a candidate for the market Place....but microsoft know that the average buyer doesn't know a thing about computers.....catches them in their web of confusion

 

I have customer after customer coming to me with their Windows 8.0 or 8.1 versions and asking me what I can do with them...my first suggestion is Always to throw them off my balcony....

 

 

What annoys me more than anything is the arrogance of microsoft....now we have "refressh" or "reset"...but it still means any crap that was there is still there after restart....and the fact that some say that this is a Quick way of doing a recovery....not in my experience....if a computer is infected - then any recovery from it or its partition recovery is taking a chance.

 

Windows reset is supposed to be Quick....I have tried on several different computers and it takes hours!!!

 

I would rather run the built in recovery from the manufacturer or the dvd's created by the customer in the beginning if they have them.

 

 

I stand by what I have said here...Windows 8.0 was just like Vista...crap and 8.1 even crappier if there is such a word.....

 

I agree with you guys...classic shell has been great....better than microsofts attempts...

 

bookie32

[My1]

has been? it still is...

[JorgeA]

There is one basic flaw with the thinking here....lol

As I have pointed out a few times....Microsoft doesn't have the capacity to listen to those that give sound advice to them....

 

After all that was said about 8.0 I was supprised to see the release of Windows 8.0 or was I....not really...one thing I have learned over the years...Microsoft has the ideas and they don't come from any outside influences....lol

 

Even their own advisors for ergonomics pointed out that it would be a mistake....

 

I keep asking the same question over and over..."Who do they actually listen to?!

 

That's a great question.

 

One that's clear to me is that whoever is (supposed to be) doing the listening, deserves to be fired.

 

--JorgeA

[Guest]

I haven't read this thread but since it's talking about the start menu, I thought I'd post my first gripe after only using Windows 10 for 20 minutes. I'll probably revisit it later when I have more time.

 

Anyways on to my point.... Is MS friggin insane? No built in run command in the start menu? I found out the round about way of adding a shortcut but c'mon. How much more dumbed down can they make Windows? This is beyond ridiculous now. Hopefully the brainiacs at MS will include it in the final version but there is zero reason for that not being a part of the core right now.

[My1]

Well for run i just use win+r

[Guest]

I'm not the type to use the keyboard shortcut (It's without question more work...however miniscule. I just did it via mouse on XP and it took 2 1/4 inch moves of my mouse.) . I'm a mouse person. Always have been, always will be. Are types like me to be left out in the cold?

Edited November 12, 2014 by -X-

[My1]

well just saying, I got more into Keyboard at the time when I had a wireless mouse and I had to swithc batteries every week which was annoying especially when I hadnt any batteries left, so I learned Keyboard shortcuts. also on the Laptop I am primarily using the touchpad (but I only use touchpads that are "fitting" for me) but also the Keyboard...