What's required for share access with NTLM hash (not LM)?

[osRe]

I'm trying to solve MS share problems (is there ever a time when there aren't such problems?) between 98SE to/from XP and 8, while using NTLM hashes, and ideally NTLMv2. The only way I can get 98 to talk with XP is to allow XP to store LM hashes. I thought 98 is supposed to support NTLM (v1) by default, but it doesn't appear so.

 

I also tried installing the DSClient (and uninstalling because it adds delay during startup). Various VXDs and DLLs were updated, but still no go. I tried setting in the registry LMCompatibility to 3, to 0, and unset. The error messages when trying to access the NT shares may change, but the only way to get access is to enable LM hashes on the XP side.

 

On 8, so far, I haven't managed to get access even with NoLMHash unset.

Edited November 1, 2014 by shae

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

You need this registry key, I have revised the DSCLIENT app in SP to add the key during default installation.

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/154025-connecting-a-windows-98-and-windows-7-through-a-network/?p=1014332

HKLM,"System\CurrentControlSet\Control\LSA","LMCompatibility",0x10001,03,00,00,00

Edited November 2, 2014 by PROBLEMCHYLD

[Nomen]

Does it have anything to do with XP's default mode for "Simple File Sharing" ?

Are you trying to share files on an XP system so that they're visible on a win-98 system, or vice-versa?

[osRe]

I already tried with LMCompatibility=3.

 

"Simple Sharing" is disabled on the NTs. The shares are password protected. Shares without password work (from 98 to 8 not always, but haven't checked in depth yet, and anyway the intention is to have it passworded).

 

The problem is with passworded. It doesn't work accessing from 98 to XP using NTLM, and ideally NTLMv2. From 98 to 8 even LM doesn't work, but there are still things a few things I should try before declaring it official.

 

The other direction, to password protected shares on 98, works from XP (username greyed out and set to "Guest" in the password prompt), but not from Win8 which wants a username and not only password.

 

Doesn't 98 support NTLM(v1) by default? (That's what's implied by various Microsoft articles.)

 

What VXD/DLL(s) are responsible for NTLMv2 support? Just VREDIR.VXD?

 

Is 128-bit encryption needed generally? (Though 98 does have the correct SECUR32.DLL.)

 

Should I pay attention to NtlmMinClientSec / NtlmMinServerSec?

[Nomen]

Some stuff here you might want to try:

http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=9055

http://dnet-km.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6141064033/m/2173960087

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/win7-easy-sharing-batch-file.339540/

http://www.vercot.com/~serva/advanced/NullSessionShares.html

http://windowsitpro.com/security/scrutinizing-windows-authentication

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749096(v=ws.10).aspx (search for "Windows 98" on that page)

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/4f82ce33-1999-4124-ab8e-9e9f5eb97318/windows-9x-family-9598seme-cannot-access-windows-7-pro-x86?forum=w7itpronetworking

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http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-networking/networking-a-windows-7-and-a-windows-98-computer/6d26ac72-d367-4731-abb4-e8681e1327c7

Networking a Windows 7 and a Windows 98 computer

Short answer: cannot be done. You can access shared folders in the Win98 computer from Windows 7 but not the other way around. Scan on one, transfer files afterwards using the other. You can't use a Windows 7 Homegroup to connect this way, you need to use basic file and printer sharing (as in workgroups). Create one account on the Windows 98 computer that has the same username and password as an account on the Windows 7 computer. Set up file sharing as normal on the Windows 98 computer and assign it to the same workgroup name as the Windows 7 computer is using. It should then appear in Windows 7 Network and allow you to access the shared Win98 folders. You may see the Windows 7 computer from Windows 98 but you won't be able to access it.

All confirmed as true, but - WHY??

----------------------

There some stuff here:

http://mirror.picosecond.org/defcon/defcon20-dvd/Speaker%20Presentations/Kirk/Extras/DEFCON-20-DSS-ODAA-Baseline-Standards-Final-March-2009-v2-2-JamesKirk.pdf

It's not exactly a "how-to" but seems to contain lots of info.

What about Samba / SMB? Does / can Win-98 operate as a proper SMB server? If anyone knows how an android tablet can transfer files from a win-98 system, I'd like to know.

One final idea: -> NetBeui

Edited November 3, 2014 by Nomen

[osRe]

Thanks. I'll check them out, though I already did web searching. In theory it should work, I think even without the DSCLIENT update (with NTLMv1 only, that is).

 

What's a proper SMB server? Win98 uses the same SMB/CIFS protocol as newer Windows, just an older iteration of it, and going over NetBIOS(/NetBEUI/NBT = ports 137 to 139) rather than directly TCP/IP (port 445). If I got the mess right. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by shae