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Discussion about IPS 4 forum software

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8 hours ago, JorgeA said:

As it turns out, when distributing Pale Moon version 27, Moonchild changed the default user agent mode from Firefox compatibility to Gecko compatibility. There are now several reports on the PM forum (such as this one) that this has broken websites for people, and that the solution is to change the UA back to Firefox.

They've dropped XP. They got their desert. Now lots of non-XP users sure will drop them. One got to reap what one sows.

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47 minutes ago, dencorso said:

They've dropped XP. They got their desert. Now lots of non-XP users sure will drop them. One got to reap what one sows.

Curiously/coincidentally, I was talking today of

Quote


Qui ventum seminabunt et turbinem metent

which in Italia is "chi semina vento raccoglie tempesta".

It comes from the Bible (just to show how there is nothing new under the sun ;)) Hosea 8.7:

Quote


For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.


 

and in its complete version the added "the strangers shall swallow it up" is even more menacing....

jaclaz


 

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17 hours ago, NoelC said:

>OMG, how the h3ll is it supposed to occur to a normal customer to "change the user agent mode" when the sites he visits are suddenly broken?!?

I think the intent with making such changes is that sites are supposed to be suddenly fixed.  Potential downsides are all too often ignored, and for some reason it's considered bad form to pop up messages and actually tell people things.  It would just upset the poor dears.

As with most things high tech, the devil is in the details, and the only way to be in control - especially if you're going to run a non-mainstream browser - is to become more knowledgeable.  So I guess it's time to go back to college, get a degree in computers, then spend a few decades writing software.

Of course I'm being facetious.  It would not have occurred to me to check the user agent string and I've done all of the above. 

There are probably browser extensions you can add to get it to send just the right agent string to each individual website.  The whole thing is like a big costume party where no one's quite sure who's talking to whom.  Our problem is that we expect it to work.  Oh, and remember to consider the agent string next time you look over web usage statistics.

At least you had the wherewithal to research the problem online and find the root of the problem.  Well done, and thanks for sharing the solution here.  I don't mean it as an insult, but I think you're already more "geek" than "customer", Jorge.

P.S., you consider yourself a "customer", but how much did you pay for the software?  Maybe for free open source software you should think of yourself more as a "co-developer"...  Apparently the folks who made the decision to change that agent string default didn't include you.  Just thinking out loud here.

-Noel

A lot of things I could have a blast responding to there, including the facetious paragraph. :thumbup

Oh, and I appreciate the promotion from "customer" to "geek."  :) 

Yeah, customer wasn't the right word to employ when it comes to free software. I was looking for a word other than "user" to avoid the repetition and possible confusion of saying, "how is it supposed to occur to a normal user to 'change the user agent mode'?"

Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully other people who run into a similar problem will see this and think to try changing the UA before taking more difficult steps.

--JorgeA

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14 hours ago, dencorso said:

They've dropped XP. They got their desert. Now lots of non-XP users sure will drop them. One got to reap what one sows.

At the risk of going OT, I'm curious to find out what browser(s) you'll now be using on XP. I know that you've been an advocate of Pale Moon, and indeed your support for it is the reason I made the switch to it.  :)

--JorgeA

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22 hours ago, dencorso said:

They've dropped XP. They got their desert. Now lots of non-XP users sure will drop them. One got to reap what one sows.

8 hours ago, JorgeA said:

At the risk of going OT, I'm curious to find out what browser(s) you'll now be using on XP. I know that you've been an advocate of Pale Moon, and indeed your support for it is the reason I made the switch to it.  :)

--JorgeA

Here's some context:

On 11/20/2016 at 4:50 AM, dencorso said:

Good riddance!

When they decided against supporting MP4 (H.264 + AAC) HTML5 video, that was the deal breaker for me.

I've moved over to FF from that time on, and have no regrets whatsoever, really.

They've been so uncomfortable about supporting XP, it's surprising they've kept on board for so long...
and nobody at all should stay against their will, anyway.
 

On 11/20/2016 at 2:02 PM, JodyT said:

Well wait dencorso.  I thought it was an OS limitation for HTML5 video, because Twitter videos don't work on Firefox within XP either.  Am I missing something?  I didn't think that limitation was Pale Moon specific.  :(

Fact is that limitation is PM specific for XP (and any pre-Vista NT-OS, for that matter)! So here's the reply I gave @JodyT:

On 11/20/2016 at 4:04 PM, dencorso said:

Sure you are! Follow the instructions on the 1st post of this sticky: Enable MP4 (H.264 + AAC) HTML5 video in Firefox on Windows XP without Flash and your Firefox will show those types of video, all right! And, no, there's no need to disable Flash, too... (I kept it working, too... the more, the merrier, right?).

I'm planning to keep on FF till 52, then onto 52esr to the last one before it becomes 59esr, then stop. I shall then keep using that final version while at all feasible, same as I still do with Chrome 49 and IE8 (when and if ione of them is needed or to test issues on multiple browsers). PM 26.5.0 is kept also, for the selfsame reason. As for what happens after the very last 52esr becomes unusable, I'm not sure, really... ... the Deluge, maybe? :ph34r:

:angel

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Just to add my two cents in the matter, I too dropped Pale Moon after using it for several years. Actually, 27 Portable works on Windows 2000 with the proper configuration, but it seems to have messed up my Atom XP 26.5 installed version just a bit (and at the time there seems no way to fix it even after reinstalling it). But now I too use FireFox and it does need to be updated since it's on version 50, it's doing a better job since Pale Moon sometimes gave me problems with YouTube.

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On 2016-11-30 at 8:47 AM, NoelC said:

>OMG, how the h3ll is it supposed to occur to a normal customer to "change the user agent mode" when the sites he visits are suddenly broken?!?.... Of course I'm being facetious.  It would not have occurred to me to check the user agent string and I've done all of the above. 

There are probably browser extensions you can add to get it to send just the right agent string to each individual website.  The whole thing is like a big costume party where no one's quite sure who's talking to whom.  Our problem is that we expect it to work.  Oh, and remember to consider the agent string next time you look over web usage statistics.

-Noel

Close.  There is a pref you can add for each site in about:config.  So say I set my rendering engine to Goanna (the default in Pale Moon), I would add a pref for Google, MSFN and others to render as Firefox.  A bit of a nuisance.

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A costume party with a wardrobe out back for changing during the party.

:D Few web site designers have been accused of being overqualified. :D

-Noel

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18 hours ago, NoelC said:

A costume party with a wardrobe out back for changing during the party.

:D Few web site designers have been accused of being overqualified. :D

-Noel

To be more strict, few have been found being actually qualified. :whistle:

jaclaz
 

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On Friday, December 02, 2016 at 11:56 AM, JodyT said:

Well it appears that Moonchild decided to release v27.0.2.  And if you look the release notes linked below, I think you (that's you NoelC ...lol) will have a little giggle. :)

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14018

Hmm they had removed the developer tools at one point? Phew I'm glad I've been putting off updating then.

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In any case they're keeping their pace aligned to FF, now, it seems... FF has just updated to 50.0.2... :dubbio:

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16 minutes ago, dencorso said:

In any case they're keeping their pace aligned to FF, now, it seems... FF has just updated to 50.0.2... :dubbio:

Not exactly.

To push further, Moonchild figured it would be best to use a new base version of Firefox to create Pale Moon from.  I think v25 and v26 were originally adapted from Firefox v29 (the last pre-Australis version).  But I guess he was running in to roadblocks adding codec support and security fixes to that older code.  So I think the current 27x build is based on Firefox 45x.  Then he reworked the older non-Australis interface and other customizations into it.

It's no different than how K-Meleon releases a new build based on a newer Gecko, right?  And the deloper tools were removed because support is gone for those types of JetPack extensions now.

I have to say, v27 runs a lot smoother so overall it's a better experience.  But Moonchild does seem to think that Google and the likes of such should bend over backward to not using agent sniffing as a compatibility measure.  Moonchild refuses to realize that he is a small player, and thus no Google or other corporate giant will care to cater to small players when they are pushing their own browser.

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