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alacran

Convenience rollup update for Win 7 SP1

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On 5/20/2016 at 7:29 PM, dencorso said:

It's quite simple, really: a number of those updates are part of the telemetry system or the update to win 10 (GWX) system (check my list)... hence they are a convenience for MS, not the users, as expected. :whistle:

That's very clear to me.:D But i checked for updates after installing convenience rollup.:blink:

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Just to disambiguate, it is correct that the convenience rollup does NOT include any of the GWX thingies? :unsure:

jaclaz
 

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2 hours ago, jaclaz said:

Just to disambiguate, it is correct that the convenience rollup does NOT include any of the GWX thingies? :unsure:

jaclaz

Well, i installed it on VM and live system and on both did NOT see GWX or any other Win10 thing. However it re-enables DiagTrack service.

Edited by 351837

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4 hours ago, jaclaz said:

Just to disambiguate, it is correct that the convenience rollup does NOT include any of the GWX thingies? :unsure:
 

Who could possibly say whether it has ANY "thingies" in it?

It's not hard to imagine there is a whole new crop of adware/nagware awaiting the termination of the "free 'upgrade'" period.  If they're as aggressive as they are NOW, imagine what they'll be like when they actually can make money directly out of getting someone to upgrade.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

-Noel

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Well, lots of things are not hard to imagine, the idea was to separate tested facts from imagination.



 

Q1. (by jaclaz) Does the "convenience roll-up package" contain or deploy any file connected to GWX or "Get Windows 10" technology?

A1. (by 351387) No, or at least I could find none of them (though Diagtrack service was re-enabled)

Q2. (additional question inspired by NoelC) Does the above mean that any other update (offline or online) will  NEVER contain or deploy any file connected to GWX or "Get Windows 10" technology?

A2. (by jaclaz) No.

Q3. (by NoelC) Who could possibly say whether it has ANY "thingies" in it?

A3. (by jaclaz) Noone.



 

jaclaz
 

Edited by jaclaz

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But we can't possibly know the facts.  It's a closed system.  It's a 40 year old Trojan horse.  Even after a year of predation (not counting Windows 8) we see that people can't YET erase a lifetime of trust and see Microsoft for what it has become.

Our computers and storage and networking are now so capable and fast that we simply can't even tell without going to much additional effort whether the system is doing any number of unwanted things.

But I know what you mean...  Looking back we may be able to derive the reality...  For example, I found that GWX was installed as early as April, 2015 on one of my systems.  I didn't become aware of it (and expunge it) until later in the year.  To think there is nothing like that in today's updates would be naïve to say the least.  There is no other evidence that Microsoft is growing a conscience.  Instead, it seems like they're doing all they can to kill whatever is left of moral, decent thinking they may have.

-Noel

Edited by NoelC

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On 5/20/2016 at 7:29 PM, dencorso said:

It's quite simple, really: a number of those updates are part of the telemetry system or the update to win 10 (GWX) system (check my list)... hence they are a convenience for MS, not the users, as expected. :whistle:

On 5/21/2016 at 5:25 AM, jaclaz said:

Just to disambiguate, it is correct that the convenience rollup does NOT include any of the GWX thingies? :unsure:

On 5/21/2016 at 7:57 AM, 351837 said:

Well, i installed it on VM and live system and on both did NOT see GWX or any other Win10 thing. However it re-enables DiagTrack service.

I've checked the lists published here and, considering them accurate, I stand corrected: it does not include any of the GWX thingies. :yes:
That said, it does include various telemetry thingies, though (viz. KB3068708, KB3075249, KB3080149, KB3081954) and the Universal C thingies... so I've updated my list, by adding a -- rather cryptic -- "(also in CR)" note besides those update numbers, for easy reference. It also does include the rather questionable update KB2882822, which is not in my list, but might perhaps be there... So this is what I think I know (do we ever?), ATM. :dubbio:

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On miércoles, 18 de mayo de 2016 at 7:33 AM, 351837 said:

... smells like a trap. :unsure:

^ Agreed. Last ditch effort sucker bait.

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Most great thing msft provided since win8.1 update :)

specially it's LDR only, as all updates released in April/May 2016
GDR branch should have died when mainstream support ended :P
it's the one that has been culpriting WU (and i don't mean the long search issue)

as for those telemetry components, it's very enough and easy to disable Diagtrack service/schedule tasks.. and their effect is gone
 

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Ah abbodi1406 you are here too besides MDL. Your analysis of the Win7 Convenience rollup was superb. It helped me created the perfect updated install.wim and WU actually works after that with only 32 updates left to download (around 150 MB).

Updates2.jpg

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On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 2:09 PM, abbodi1406 said:

as for those telemetry components, it's very enough and easy to disable Diagtrack service/schedule tasks.. and their effect is gone

It's interesting you should say that.

I have an uncommon set of software installed across my systems that allows me to see who's attempting communications with whom (and control it).  As an experiment I allowed the telemetry updates to install themselves on a Win 8.1 virtual machine.  It actually did attempt more communications, even with all the usual jobs disabled.  My theory is that there's far more than meets the eye in those updates.

Now, that was a Win 8.1 system, not 7, so I'm trying to set up the same experiment with a Win 7 virtual machine to extend the experiment to Windows 7, but just in the past few days Windows Update itself has started just failing utterly with an error code 80072EFD.  It may be unhappy that I'm not letting it contact statsfe2.update.microsoft.com.  I'm not sure yet.

It's pretty clear Microsoft is fighting back against those who would seek to control just what software runs on their systems.  So don't be quick to assume that telemetry updates are benign if you attempt to control telemetry in the traditional ways.

-Noel

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I've just created a virtual machine in which I've installed the "convenience rollup" update, KB3125574, as described in this thread.

Thanks for the direct link in the original post of this thread, Alacran.

So far, on a Win 7 system that was completely quiet before the update, and which is being fully monitored after, I haven't heard a peep.  I checked the various scheduled jobs and whatnot.  Pro-privacy configuration changes weren't actually unmade, which surprised me.  Maybe the folks who are doing Windows 7 updates at Microsoft aren't all bad yet.

This is good news so far, in that it may say this "convenience rollup" update really can be worth using.

However, I've only been monitoring it for a few hours after the installation.  It needs to be running for some days (and especially overnight) before I can say for sure whether it's staying quiet.

-Noel

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More info...

Rather than start with a clean setup I chose a Win 7 system that was up to date as of January 14, had been set to do manual updates only, and was configured for maximum privacy (e.g., settings were tweaked, telemetry jobs were disabled, etc.).   The system also had several updates hidden.

These are the Windows Updates I had hidden on that system before installing the "convenience rollup update".  They include GWX and telemetry, as well as the Windows Genuine Advantage update from years ago.

  • KB2952664 (diagnostics to determine whether the system will be compatible with Win 10)
  • KB3021917 (determines if performance issues will be encountered if upgrading to Win 10 and sends telemetry)
  • KB3035583 (GWX)
  • KB3068708 (Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry)
  • KB3080149 (Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry)
  • KB3123862 (Updated capabilities to upgrade Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 [to Win 10])
  • KB971033 (Update for Windows Activation Technologies)

This particular setup was completely quiet (no unexpected online communications) before the update.

The idea here is to see whether installing the "convenience rollup update" could be useful with an existing system that's both up-to-date or mostly so, and which was functional (though had experienced some Windows Update slowness before).

After installing the "convenience rollup update" I'm monitoring the communications carefully.  Afterward, so far, I haven't heard an new peeps out of the telemetry software.

I checked the various scheduled jobs and whatnot.  Pro-privacy configuration changes I had made were left in place, and disabled jobs were left disabled - which surprised me a bit given Microsoft's recent moves.  Maybe the folks who are doing Windows 7 updates at Microsoft aren't all bad.  Yet.

This is good news so far; it hints that this "convenience rollup" update really might be worth using.  However, I've only been monitoring it for a few hours after the installation.  It needs to be running for some days (and especially overnight) before I can say with any confidence whether it's staying quiet.   I'll let you know if I detect anything out of the ordinary.

Other observations:

I tried a manually-initiated Windows Update.   It took a few minutes, then failed with hex error.  However, a notification pop-up came up shortly thereafter claiming an update was available.  I think the error may have happened because it was checking on its own after I had started the Windows Update service, and my manually initiated check couldn't start up a second instance.

When I clicked on the notification pop-up, this update was the only one listed as available:

  • KB971033

After the update, this reduced list was shown as still hidden:

  • KB3021917 (determines if performance issues will be encountered if upgrading to Win 10 and sends telemetry)
  • KB3035583 (GWX)
  • KB3068708 (Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry)
  • KB3080149 (Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry)

As mentioned above, KB971033 is an update from years ago that will actively check to see whether Microsoft wants to deactivate your license.  I use only legitimately licensed software, but I can imagine any number of things could go wrong with that, so as a matter of course I always hide it on all my Win 7 systems.

It was a bit of a surprise that only that update showed up as available.  What I don't know is whether they're trying to tell me that KB971033 must go in before I can see any other updates, or whether there just aren't any more right now that are not included in the convenience package.  If this update is now required, that represents a change, as it has never been required before.

Experimentation and observation continues...

-Noel

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Thanks for monitoring :)

when i said telemetry components, i ment the ones included in rollup, it include:
- Diagtrack service (KB3068708/KB3080149)
- only a fracture of KB2952664, this fracture is latent/ineffective without the whole kb2952664 installed
- telemetry points in UAC consent.exe (KB3075249), they also ineffective if Diagtrack service is off (just a guess), and KB3139923 already superseded it
- upgrade facilitating WU client (KB3138612), can be easily blocked with registry DisableOSUpgrade

"convenience rollup update" is useful even for up-to-date system (WU updates), because:
- it contains almost all hotfixes and non-WU updates, which is basically what SP2 will have if it was released
- the rollup unifies the components version to one, allowing an easy base for system
- individual updates have superseded, duplicated components/files (different versions), which takes more reduntant space, and installing the rollup (newest version) allows Disk Cleanup to remove the old components and gain space

as for KB971033, maybe it's re-requested because you didn't set the upgrade block policy
so WU needs it to verify Win7 license before offering the upgrade (again just a guess)

 

Regard the SFC integrity issue, here's an explanation for it:

http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/?p=1231135

the issue is indeed a failure by msft and makes the rollup looks bad, but it's completely harmless
 

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