Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

MSFN is made available via donations, subscriptions and advertising revenue. The use of ad-blocking software hurts the site. Please disable ad-blocking software or set an exception for MSFN. Alternatively, register and become a site sponsor/subscriber and ads will be disabled automatically. 



98SE

RLoew's non-XMS Ramdisk and related Software

Recommended Posts

dencorso    541
14 hours ago, rloew said:

@98SE You never reported the results of the 64-Bit Memory Test I posted on your Z170 Motherboard.

Will you please post the requested results?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

rloew    93

Lots of questions. No answers.

1. The BIOS remaps the physical Memory at the Hardware level using the Chipset or CPU Registers.

2. PCI, AGP and PCI-E all use MMIO. Up to 256MiB, they normally use the actual amount. Above 256MiB many use 256MiB of MMIO and bank or map Video RAM. PCI-E adds it's own 256MiB of Configuration space in MMIO.
You will have to purchase my non-XMS RAMDisk to do a "fair test".

3. I have P4s, a Z87, and Amigas. Most of my Computers use AMD.

4. I am not aware of any Z170 or Z270 users of my Patch. The RAM Limitation Patch has no connection to the RAMDisks.

5. I have USB Floppy Drives. I never had a Z97. The M5A97 and SLI Krait use an AMD 970 Chipset. They both run 98SE just fine.

6. What Mods are you talking about? My RAM Limitation Patch works with Windows ME. Memory capacity for all 32-Bit Operating Systems have the same limit. They may report a couple of Megabytes difference at best.

I asked you to run those tests to determine if there are serious issues with Z170 Motherboards that could be a deal breaker for 98SE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
98SE    14
3 hours ago, rloew said:

Lots of questions. No answers.

1. The BIOS remaps the physical Memory at the Hardware level using the Chipset or CPU Registers.

2. PCI, AGP and PCI-E all use MMIO. Up to 256MiB, they normally use the actual amount. Above 256MiB many use 256MiB of MMIO and bank or map Video RAM. PCI-E adds it's own 256MiB of Configuration space in MMIO.
You will have to purchase my non-XMS RAMDisk to do a "fair test".

3. I have P4s, a Z87, and Amigas. Most of my Computers use AMD.

4. I am not aware of any Z170 or Z270 users of my Patch. The RAM Limitation Patch has no connection to the RAMDisks.

5. I have USB Floppy Drives. I never had a Z97. The M5A97 and SLI Krait use an AMD 970 Chipset. They both run 98SE just fine.

6. What Mods are you talking about? My RAM Limitation Patch works with Windows ME. Memory capacity for all 32-Bit Operating Systems have the same limit. They may report a couple of Megabytes difference at best.

I asked you to run those tests to determine if there are serious issues with Z170 Motherboards that could be a deal breaker for 98SE.

Thanks for clearing up video card memory usage R. Loew.  If you are using a 256MB video card will the 768MB of that 1GiB MMIO range you mentioned get freed up for 98SE programs?  I'll try to set up the Z170 for the tests now and get you that information.  I thought you were using Intel CPUs on the newer motherboards so you only are able to answer half the support possibilities.  Also the newer AM4 chipset with Ryzen CPUs I would be interested in finding out if your 98SE Mem patch and non-XMS Ramdisk works on it since that would the latest generation to test.  You could be right that it could be a dealbreaker if Intel has broken 9X/ME which is why I purposely got a Z87 since it in between the Z77 and Z170 for testing on all three.  I did test your Mem Patch on the Z77 before and it seemed to function except some issues with onboard USB port and USB mouse not working properly.  Stay tuned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rloew    93

I have always preferred AMD over Intel.

I decided to buy the Z87 because I had heard that Intel CPUs were faster doing Math and I needed at least one modern Intel System to identify implementation differences in the Hardware.
As it turned out, it was not faster doing Math so my next Computer was another AMD. It did help me adjust some of my Products to work properly with Intel Motherboards.
I already know how to use 98SE with a Z87. I am more interested in identifying the possible issues with the Z170.

USB and Mouse problems can be related to issues with nVidia Drivers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
98SE    14
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 9:36 PM, rloew said:

I have always preferred AMD over Intel.

I decided to buy the Z87 because I had heard that Intel CPUs were faster doing Math and I needed at least one modern Intel System to identify implementation differences in the Hardware.
As it turned out, it was not faster doing Math so my next Computer was another AMD. It did help me adjust some of my Products to work properly with Intel Motherboards.
I already know how to use 98SE with a Z87. I am more interested in identifying the possible issues with the Z170.

USB and Mouse problems can be related to issues with nVidia Drivers.

I preferred AMD back in the 386/486 era.  Then a K6-2 which was a huge speed boost over the Pentium 1 and much cheaper.  Later I had to get a P4 because AMD had no ISA slots and Dual Floppy Controller motherboard so it broke compatibility for my legacy stuff.  Intel had more motherboard options that fit the bill.  But today if you can get hold of an AM4 R7 1700 and modify that to support 8 cores for 98SE that would be an amazing patch I'd like to see you test out if you going to invest in another AMD this is the one.

At the moment my Z170 can't format a system bootable disk.  This is why I have a feeling it had issues working with 98SE and Himem.sys.  Also during XP it reported a loss of 1GB of memory for no reason regardless of video card memory capacity or onboard only using Intel HD 32MB limited video memory option the same result.  And the P4 I am trying to get to run passively has been shutting down too soon before the 98SE bootable disk finishes.  So I'm trying to swap a CPU or put a better heatsink right now to get that clean boot disk before loading your two utils onto it for testing.  But regarding the USB mouse I was using the onboard Intel HD Graphics on that particular test with the USB mouse.  So it had nothing to do with the nVidia card conflicting somehow.  Stay tuned.  I might be able to get a Z77 to do it but would have to reboot to DOS to format the disk if the P4 keeps shutting down.

Update: Z77 temp system set up.  Got a USB bootable 98SE working and formatted a bootable floppy.  I will transfer your two utils to the disk on the XP system in a moment.

Modified Config.Sys for Bootable Floppy test.

TESTS condensed data for space - 6/16/17

    PROTHOOK Method
    EMM386 Virtual I/O Port 7C80
    No Preallocated 32-Bit Memory
    Interrupt 15H Hooked

Above data the same on Boot for P4/Z77/Z170

 Test #1:
    Z170 Status for USB 98SE Bootable Floppy Rudolph Loew HimemEX v2.3 Update:
    2GB GT 710 PCI card installed - Primary
    OnBoard Intel HD 530 Graphics - Auto Shared Memory setting
    PROTHOOK Method
    EMM386 Virtual I/O Port 7C80
    No Preallocated 32-Bit Memory
    Interrupt 15H Hooked
    32GB installed should be = 33554432 KB = 32768 MB
    BIOS SETTING - Top of Lower Usable Dram - Dynamic, 64-bit Memory: 31293440 KB = 30560 MB = 29.84375 GB
    Difference of 2260992 KB = 2208 MB = 2.15625 GB
    Test run in a moment.
    TESTAHCI.COM Result:
    AHCI ONLY CONTROLLER FOUND - CANNOT SWITCH
    TEST.BAT - HIMEMEX:
    TRIES TO COPY FILES SEEMS SUCCESSFUL
    I tried copying CONFIG.SYS to HIMEMEX0 and it says copied.
    I have no way to verify if the content is intact since I don't know how your HIMEMEX normally works as I   have no drive     letter to confirm the files are present or successfully copied without corruption.

Final Test.BAT result: Two lines of colored symbols identical except the second line is shifted one character left.

    
 Test #2:
    Z170 Status for USB 98SE Bootable Floppy Rudolph Loew HimemEX v2.3 Update:
    2GB GT 710 PCI card Installed and Uninstalled same memory available result.
    OnBoard Intel HD 530 Graphics - 32MB Shared Memory setting - Primary
    32GB installed should be = 33554432 KB = 32768 MB

    BIOS SETTING - Top of Lower Usable Dram - 2.5GB, 64-bit Memory: 30998528 KB =  MB =  GB

    BIOS SETTING - Top of Lower Usable Dram - 3.5GB, 64-bit Memory: 30474240 KB =  MB =  GB

    BIOS SETTING - Top of Lower Usable Dram - Dynamic, 64-bit Memory: 31260672 KB = 30528 MB = 29.8125 GB

    64-bit Memory: 31260672 KB = 30528 MB = 29.8125 GB
    Difference of 2293760 KB = 2240 MB = 2.1875 GB


 Test #3:
    Z170 Status for USB 98SE Bootable Floppy Rudolph Loew HimemEX v2.3 Update:
    2GB GT 710 PCI card Installed and Uninstalled same memory available result.
    OnBoard Intel HD 530 Graphics - 1024MB Shared Memory setting - Primary
    32GB installed should be = 33554432 KB = 32768 MB
    64-bit Memory: 31293440 KB = 30560 MB = 29.84375 GB
    Difference of 2260992 KB = 2208 MB = 2.15625 GB


 Test #4:
    Z170 Status for USB 98SE Bootable Floppy Rudolph Loew HimemEX v2.3 Update:
    4GB GTX 1050 Ti installed - Primary also same memory result
    OnBoard Intel HD 530 Graphics - 32MB Shared Memory setting - Primary
    32GB installed should be = 33554432 KB = 32768 MB
    64-bit Memory: 31522816 KB = 30784 MB = 30.0625 GB
    Difference of 2031616 KB = 1984 MB = 1.9375 GB
    

 Test #5:
    Z170 Status for USB 98SE Bootable Floppy Rudolph Loew HimemEX v2.3 Update:
    4GB GTX 1050 Ti installed - Primary also same memory result
    OnBoard Intel HD 530 Graphics - 1024MB MAX Shared Memory setting - Primary
    32GB installed should be = 33554432 KB = 32768 MB
    64-bit Memory: 31555584 KB = 30816 MB = 30.09375 GB
    Difference of 1998848 KB = 1952 MB = 1.90625 GB

.

Strange that the Intel HD 530 32MB setting gives you less 64-bit memory than the 1024MB setting.  Also the 4GB PCIe card 31555584 KB provided more available memory than the 2GB PCIe card 31293440 KB with onBoard Intel HD 530 Graphics 1024MB shared video memory.  A difference of 262144 KB = 256MB.

.

Z77

TESTAHCI.COM Result:

NO INT 13 DRIVES MATCHED

TEST.BAT - HIMEMEX:

Final Test result: Two lines of colored symbols identical except the second line is shifted one character left.

Does your Z87 produce the same result?

.

P4 845

TESTAHCI.COM Result:

NO SWITCHABLE AHCI CONTROLLERS FOUND.

TEST.BAT - HIMEMEX:

Failure complete mismatching color garbage characters

Y and Z produced it.

Edited by 98SE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rloew    93

The AHCI test shows that Windows 98SE will only run in Compatibility Mode unless I can come up with an AHCI Driver.

Running TEST.BAT copies the 4 test files to the DOS Driver HIMEMEX0. It should have displayed two lines of colored symbols if HIMEMEX is loaded. Did these lines appear? Or did it create a file called HIMEMEX0?

Do not copy anything else to HIMEMEX0.

If it wasn't so expensive, I would go for the ThreadRipper and use my MULTCORE API to run 36 HyperThreads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
98SE    14
3 hours ago, rloew said:

The AHCI test shows that Windows 98SE will only run in Compatibility Mode unless I can come up with an AHCI Driver.

Running TEST.BAT copies the 4 test files to the DOS Driver HIMEMEX0. It should have displayed two lines of colored symbols if HIMEMEX is loaded. Did these lines appear? Or did it create a file called HIMEMEX0?

Do not copy anything else to HIMEMEX0.

If it wasn't so expensive, I would go for the ThreadRipper and use my MULTCORE API to run 36 HyperThreads.

That's why I recommend the R7 1700.  Low wattage and probably BBFTB so it doesn't hurt the wallet or electric bills although I can't imagine what you would do with 36 HTs?  The hunt for ETs?  Mapping Twin Primes?  I'm not even sure if 8 cores will work in XP yet.

What adverse effect does running 98SE in Compatibility Mode cause?

Okay 4 hours of time spent so far and did more tests as I assumed your files were just the same files with random garbage characters in it for testing it copied okay in each memory region.  It seems you coded it somehow to cause a reaction when copied to the hidden Ramdrive.  I created multiple batch files to test each one to prevent overlap.  The Y returns the only color character garbage result.  Maybe you can explain what the W, X, and Z files helped troubleshoot?

Update:

I reran the test again and it does shift the second series of garbage characters as you described.  I happens on Y and Z only.

Edited by 98SE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dencorso    541

8 cores do work in XP all right. At least for the i7 3770k on a Z68.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
98SE    14
1 hour ago, dencorso said:

8 cores do work in XP all right. At least for the i7 3770k on a Z68.

Wait Dencorso, I recognize that CPU but it only had 4 cores but that is the fastest or top end Ivy Bridge.  Need to go to X79 to get true 6 cores.  But some Xeon CPUs can go higher but unknown what happens in XP.

http://ark.intel.com/products/65523/Intel-Core-i7-3770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

I have an X79 MB but Intel didn't want to update BIOS to support Ivy Bridge on it.

This one is true 6 cores but my Intel MB won't work with it no CPU support.

http://ark.intel.com/products/77780

Works with this older Sandy Bridge one but now only 8 core or more interests me. :crazy:

http://ark.intel.com/products/63697

Edited by 98SE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rloew    93

Running in Compatibility Mode makes Disk access much slower as it has to go back to the BIOS to transfer data.
You also lose the Optical Drives unless you add DOS Drivers.

HIMEMEX0 is not a hidden RAMDisk. It is an interface to the HIMEMEX Memory Manager.
The 4 Files copied by TEST.BAT are Commands to the Memory Manager.
Since you got the two lines with the one character shift, your Motherboard supports my 64-Bit RAMDisk and should work with HIMEM and/or HIMEMX. HIMEM may be getting confused somehow. There are options to set the A20 Detection Method in HIMEM. The Fast A20 gate method is supported, as verified by HIMEMEX. You can also try HIMEMX.

The Ryzen you mentioned is not enough of an improvement over what I already have to justify building another Machine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
98SE    14
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 8:33 AM, dencorso said:

Will you please post the requested results?

@Dencorso

Yes Dencorso I spent many hours yesterday / today and have done an extensive memory comparison test with different configurations on the Z170 to maximize the memory available on Rudolph Lowe Non XMS Ramdisk test program.  Check this posting below.

www.msfn.org/board/topic/176752-rloews-non-xms-ramdisk-and-related-software/?do=findComment&comment=1140264

Also there is a large missing chunk of memory I cannot explain yet and will need to do more tests to see how it affects 98SE and DOS programs.  On XP it appears to lose over 1GB but still functional.  I am going to try and get 98SE working on Z77 first since P4 keeps overheating too quickly but I finished installing 98SE on it so I might have to find a better heatsink to passively cool it down for comparison.  That is a lot of RAM to be missing that the Ramdrive could be using and 98SE can probably run fine with 256MB->512MB and I think this is a Z170 issue so I will have to limit 98SE to see if this affects the size of the Ramdrive at all but I want to focus on Z77 first to make sure it works properly as it appears more compatible.

I will also have to do a comparison test with other Non XMS Ramdisk to see if the same amount is missing for 2GB/4GB/8GB setup which is the optimal amount for 98SE with Ramdisk.  I can't see any more RAM being useful over 4GB because you need a 64-bit Ramdrive and splits into two separate Ramdrives and letters which I don't want.  If someone creates a single DOS or 9X/ME Ramdrive creates one contiguous chunk using one drive letter it will be more useful for people with over 4GB systems which is common now.

Do you have any recommended alternate Ramdisks for DOS and 9X/ME you wish me to do memory comparison tests? I will try and test them all out and report my results when I am done since you seem to be keen on a bunch of these over the years and I don't want to leave out any.  Also if you have any recommended software cache programs I will test them out.  At the minimum I will test on P4/Z77/Z170 to see which ones work/don't work etc.

Edited by 98SE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dibya    229
14 hours ago, dencorso said:

8 cores do work in XP all right. At least for the i7 3770k on a Z68.

16 cores are detected and work fine on i7-5960X board with XP 32 with X99 though the pc is not mine rather of my elder sister .

Pretty fast with XP .

I think Rloew may make a multicore patch for 9x .

Edited by Dibya
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rloew    93

The Test Program does not report memory. It verifies 64-Bit Access and A20 control.

HIMEMEX reports the amount to 64-Bit RAM.

Since the unused 32-Bit RAM is remapped to 64-Bit RAM by the BIOS, increasing the MMIO usage increases the 64-Bit RAM at the expense of 32-Bit RAM.

The OS does not affect the amount of available Memory unless you tell the BIOS to let the OS configure PnP.

Most PCI-E SATA Cards still support IDE Mode so they could be used to get around the AHCI problem if you have a spare slot. Unfortunately there is no easy way to tell from the product descriptions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dencorso    541
19 hours ago, 98SE said:

I will also have to do a comparison test with other Non XMS Ramdisk

There is none but RLoew's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
98SE    14
9 hours ago, dencorso said:

There is none but RLoew's.

I should probably state looking for your best recommended DOS or Win9X/ME Ramdisks to do a comparison test instead of non XMS Ramdisk in that case.  Any particular reason why it was named Non-XMS Ramdisk rather than just RLoew (32-bit or 64-bit) Ramdisk?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×