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ruthan

Win98SE debug,normal boot freezing + Rloew patches (RAM/SATA/NVSIZE/AHCI) installation debugging, NVU 82 drivers

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rloew    90

If you have material new information or questions, put them in a new Post rather than updating an existing Post. Otherwise there is no notification and I may never see them.

Not all BIOS Disables are total. Some BIOSes remove the disabled Drives from the INT 13 list but do not remove the Controllers from the PCI List. DOS won't see them but Windows can.

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ruthan    1
Quote

Go to the "Disk Drives" Section in Device Manager.

Turn on DMA on each Drive.

This should improve performance.

  Yeah performance finally here i will post some numbers, i forgot where exactly i should turn on DMA - that it is on device setting in Device Manager.

If this could be checked by some value in registry i perhaps will write some checker myself, because set and check all of this manually its sick, you could sell it for $1, cent for me 50 and 50 cents for you :)  I sure that i will not remember all of this for more that month, its maybe 15 years when i compiled something for Win98 in Borland C++ Builder, but check some registry value and files attribs i should be easy coding..
  
   So performance is there (i will post numbers later but is great), i but this is still not victory..
- new problems after i enabled DMA emerged, right after boot, i got some Rundll32 error, its related to Nvidia control panel, right click, anywhere in windows is not working, when i started game i have got Nvidia NVSVC error message and there is classic Nvidia shutdown problem - i rebooted twice so it is some random mistake..
- microfreezes are still there

Quote

PURGEHDC erased all of the previous settings.

Yeah, but part of SP3 is some DMA auto enabler patch, so i hoped that it is working..

Quote

If you enable AHCI, the Controller ID and Type will change so it will appear as a New Unknown Device. You do not need to disable the existing Driver as it will not be loaded for that Controller.
In this case having ATA0106.INF installed would be a liability.

I going to by AHCI patch regardless of this problem, because of second machine.. But for now to keep it simple, i will not change IDE to AHCI, until Nvidia related bugs would be fixed.
 

Quote

Be aware that some AHCI BIOSes incorrectly handle Odd Address Transfers in Compatibility Mode and can cause corruption.

Compatibility mode is not working with my Sata III Sandisk Ultra Extreme II at all (long boot and disk is not visible in Bios), so im forced use this enhanced mode, ment for Windows 2000 and XP.
 

Quote

I would recommend using AHCIBIOS and ATA0106.INF for long term usage.

Its 10 bucks, im ok with that, my that right mbr patch for 20 $ is something which scares me :) I will invest some time to search alternatives, because it is stupid Windows partition types detection mistake..

I just removed Sil(ly) controller from Conroe865 machine to keep it simple, i used it only because DVD ROM, i dont rember details, but you wrote something about, that DVD maybe would not be working with patch..

Edited by ruthan

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ruthan    1

Some pictures, disc benchmark are now in same AttoBenchmark version 2.11 - i wanst able to get version 2.45 should be too Win98+, older version are Xp+

And Nvidia problem screenshot i get it everywere when right mouse i used in explorer and right after boot too:

Win 7:

Atto-Win7-211.png

Win 98:

Atto-Win98-GoodResults.png

Nviidia error:, after DMA is enabled

nvidiaProblem.png

Edited by ruthan

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rloew    90

The SATA Patch does not fix nVidia problems. These are unrelated issues. I posted a fix for the nVidiia Shutdown problem.

U98SESP3 sets the Registry to Enable DMA. PURGEHDC  P  A will erase them. There is a disclaimer in U98SESP3 saying it is not for SATA Drives.

I got your order, but there is no AHCI "Patch" so I asked you to confirm you want AHCIBIOS.

When I said a DVD might not work with my Patch, I was referring to a configuration prohibited my Microsoft, that is more likely when using SATA. It is not a problem with the Patch.
Microsoft explicitly prohibits an Optical Drive as a Primary Master on the Legacy Mode Controller.
With PATA Drives, the Primary Master slot is normally used by the Boot Hard Drive, so the problem doesn't occur.
With SATA Drives and my Patch, the Boot Hard Drive is connected to the Native Mode Controller, so the Primary Master slot on the Legacy Mode Controller is free. This allows the prohibited configuration to be used.
I removed this restriction in my Terabyte Plus Driver.

The $21 is for my RFDISK advanced partitioning tool, not just for the MBR. The MBR is just one feature.

You can get rid of some of those nVidia errors by disabling it's Services.

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ruthan    1
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The SATA Patch does not fix nVidia problems. These are unrelated issues. I posted a fix for the nVidiia Shutdown problem.

   You are right, but my point view is different, i have bough your Sata and Nvidia patches and i hoped, that they will just make my Windows 98 machine finally usefull.
    And this Nvidia problem, i got right after i set enabled DMA, which is needed for make your Sata patch, i dont know it, could be some conflict of DMA use..

 Its not your fault, but im tired of situation when i fix one thing to run into other problem and buy one more patch situation.. Will it be last?
   
   This really looks like some resources conflict.

 

Quote

U98SESP3 sets the Registry to Enable DMA. PURGEHDC  P  A will erase them. There is a disclaimer in U98SESP3 saying it is not for SATA Drives.

 Ok i missed disclaimer.

DVD drive - nice thanks for explanation.

 

Quote

The $21 is for my RFDISK advanced partitioning tool, not just for the MBR. The MBR is just one feature.

  I didnt find too much info about it on your web.. and its a typical on web, its quick summary and after transaction things getting a bit more technical and complicated (more iffy, there is some sort of disappointment from user  perspective).. Maybe it would be nice have possibility to check technical manuals before purchase, it think that they are your SW specific, so you dont need to be affraid of some know how leaks..

  Point is that i dont know too much, how it works, so im asking, it is big package for 21$, maybe it could be splited and i will need only part i need (better price). 
  For me it really looked like some dirty magic bit change  / wrapper, which will help me use my NTFS bigger than 8.4GB partitions, i have lots good partition tools, even paid.. but question is if need after needed change use only your partition program, or i can still use other partition tools?

My present machine state overview:
- both are in strange state

1) AMD970, today arrived new Intel gigabit NIC a replaced it for Intel 100 Mbit, after that i boot when i installed drivers, i got still some Rundll errors, but after that right click was working and these micro freezes in games were gone. But next reboot i got black screen in normal mode, i have to check Bootlog.txt - im really tired of that, i really hoped, it will all and would be able finally enjoy the machine.
  

  Boolog attached, there is some IPX entry a after some value which i really dont understand, i have installed again whole network stuck and some files were from drivers, some already on system a some of SP3..

2) Conroe machine i set up Bios to Enhanced mode, disable all IDE controller and purged all controllers in safe mode, but i had still freeze in boot into normal mode, so i checked bootlog.txt some usb stuff was wrong, i removed usb staff rebooted and controllers were detected with Intel drivers - one with exclamation marks, reboot - i didnt expected much, but i first time saw DVD driver working, no MS-DOS mode except diskette drive, even NTFS partitions were visible - but only read only.
   After reboot i even could edit NTFS data, but and have got some explorer loading freze and i have to kill 1 process to load desktop icons and other thing was that drive performance was only 3 MB/s, all this without your Sata patch.. I looged HardwareID of controller for future check (im will post them here later), which controller was in that time really visible and which was working and which dont, if both were boards Sata controller (but why 2, i per port?) or it was fix of Sata and IDE controller and if they were in AHCI mode or IDE mode (when OS started to work with them) - i think that you can say that from HardwareID, im right?. 

   So more time to fiddling with drivers is needed, more diving into Windows 98 drivers hell pit, im sick of it.

BOOTLOG.7z

Edited by ruthan

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dencorso    530

Try RLoew's nVidia Fix before giving up. It's free and it's on this forum for download. I don't remember where, exactly, but some other old timer here sure will point you to the right place. Success in your set-up seems to me to be just around the corner, right now.
Later addition: it's on this post.

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rloew    90

The Hard Disk Controllers use their own DMA Engine so they do not use the built-in DMA Controller.

RFDISK is a full Package so there is a Manual Included with the Free Demo. Download the Demo and read the Manual.

I could write a MBR updater that would be cheaper if that is all you want.

You can mix usage with other Partition tools as long as you do not use the Multi-Boot Profile MBR. At a minimum you can use RFDISK to refresh the MBR after you are finished with the others.

The AMD970 crashed on VFAT which is usually a sign of memory exhaustion in the DMA area. Gigabit Ethernet and/or large Registries can cause this. The fix for this is the /M Option on my RAM Limitation Patch.

Unfortunately this means another Patch, but you get to use a lot more RAM if you do.

You already have the full nVidia Patch so you don't need the Shutdown fix that Dencorso recommended unless you aren't putting the Patch in that machine.

I sent you the AHCIBIOS Package. I forgot to mention that you will have to Enable DMA on all of the redetected Disk Drives.

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ruthan    1

Conroe:

Here is list of Conroe controllers Windows 98: // Second collumn is hardwareID
|0 - 31 - 1|8086-24DB-24D01849-02   hdc      Intel® 82801EB UATA Storage Controllers
|0 - 31 - 2|8086-24D1-24D11849-02   hdc      Intel® 82801EB UATA Storage Controllers

Windows XP:

Bus-Numb-Fun  IRQ  Vendor-Dev-Sub_OEM-Rev Class (2:255)       Vendor and Device Description  Showing 16 of 16
[0 - 31 - 1]       8086-24DB-24D01849-02 EIDE Controller      Intel 82801EB (ICH5) EIDE Controller
[0 - 31 - 2]  18   8086-24D1-24D11849-02 SATA Controller      Intel 82801EB (ICH5) SATA I/O Controller

Windows XP device manager:
ConroeXPControllerList.JPG


AHCIBIOS patch application:
- i have purged all controler
- copied INF
- copied AHCIBIOS.com and add it to autoexec.com // I can somehow check it was really executed?
- checked that SATA patch is already installed
- rebooted into normal mode - Controller were autodetected as Intel Controllers
- i tried to change driver for controller for your ATA106 driver
- reboot wasnt sucessfull - freeze
- should i remove some intel drivers files, if yes which?

Update:
- Ahci controller properly installed, i removed intel driver
- bootlog this crashing on ESDI - patched:
- i tried to patch ESDI, i got patched message
- but when i check directory, only ESDI_506.B_A (size (24,406)- file is here, original file had size 24,406 and data 5.5.1999, was it right file?

Quote

[0010F4C3] DEVICEINITSUCCESS   = TSKNF700
[0010F4C3] DEVICEINIT   = SPOOLER 
[0010F4C3] DEVICEINITSUCCESS   = SPOOLER 
[0010F4C3] DEVICEINIT   = UDF     
[0010F4C3] DEVICEINITSUCCESS   = UDF     
[0010F4C3] DEVICEINIT   = VFAT    
[0010F4C3] DEVICEINITSUCCESS   = VFAT    
[0010F4C3] DEVICEINIT   = VDEF    
[0010F4C3] DEVICEINITSUCCESS   = VDEF    
[0010F4C3] Initing mcdbus.mpd
[0010F4C3] Init Success mcdbus.mpd
[0010F4C3] Initing esdi_506.pdr

Xp-AhCIBIOS-DeviceList.jpg

Edited by ruthan

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ruthan    1
Quote

I could write a MBR updater that would be cheaper if that is all you want.

   If is all what i need for read/ write access NTFS partition, on MBR disk with size up to 2 TB, maximum NTFS partition size would be <2TB.
As i said, i would prefer some wrapper / fix solution - fix what in broken in Windows 98 and dont change anything on HDD, because all other OSes could work with HDD as it is.

  But i dont know if you have something like that?

-------
Amd 970:
i will post some info later.

Quote

You already have the full nVidia Patch so you don't need the Shutdown fix that Dencorso recommended unless you aren't putting the Patch in that machine.

  I updated video card bios and change on Nvidia driver file with your patch a installed this modified Nvidia unofficial 82 driver package, is it at what i had to do?

Quote

The AMD970 crashed on VFAT which is usually a sign of memory exhaustion in the DMA area. Gigabit Ethernet and/or large Registries can cause this. The fix for this is the /M Option on my RAM Limitation Patch. Unfortunately this means another Patch, but you get to use a lot more RAM if you do.

  Im already limitting my ram size from 8 GB to 1125 by some himem.exe in config.sys i dont really remember details, its years, im also i thing using some modified io.sys because its otherwise crashing with not enough mermory during boot.

  So if will pay other 20$ for  your memory patch and i patching would be finally done and machine would be ready for gaming?

Edited by ruthan

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ruthan    1

+ placeholder, because of email notifications, post above, updated.

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rloew    90

Unlike newer system, Intel apparently didn't change Device IDs between Native and AHCI Modes. The Intel INF File is device specific so it gets priority during Device Detection.
There is a small possibility that Intel made incompatible changes to the Registry. VIA did with theirs.

The SATA Patch hides and protects  ESDI_506.PDR to reduce the risk of it being overwritten. That is why you don't see it.

Your BOOTLOG.TXT shows a MagicISO Driver loading just before ESDI_506.PDR. I'm not sure what impact that might have.

Be sure that the Intel Disk Driver INF is renamed or deleted. Then try using PURGEHDC  P  A  again.

A wrapper for the MBR is not possible as the MBR runs first. If you are replacing a 9x MBR then nothing else should be affected. If it is not a 9x MBR then the replacement may not be needed.

I can't guarantee that my RAM Limitation will fix everything. I have no idea what else is in your System. But it should fix the VFAT Problem.

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ruthan    1

Conroe: What step do you recommend to do? MagicISO, i can uninstall it, but its on AMD 970 machine too. 

Quote

Be sure that the Intel Disk Driver INF is renamed or deleted. Then try using PURGEHDC  P  A  again.

Im not expert in Intel inf files, which INFs you means, ICH5IDE - or something like that, because there other intel chipset drivers, which i should delete, right? I would like to be just user and let care patch care of such things :( 
 
 

Quote

There is a small possibility that Intel made incompatible changes to the Registry. VIA did with theirs.  

 This is even more lowlevel..

Quote

The SATA Patch hides and protects  ESDI_506.PDR to reduce the risk of it being overwritten. That is why you don't see it.

  You lost me, so ESDI_506.B_K and not ESDI_506.PDR not visible in IOSYS directory is ok, i mean visibly by explorer with enabled show hidden and system files?

AMD 970: My system is just AMD 970 /SB 950 Asus board, exact model was mentioned above.. 8 GB of DDR3 1600 + Geforce 7950GT 512 MB PCIE, PS2 mouse and keyboard, maybe disabled additional GPU in second slot for modern OS, now its not working in modern OSes - but later - after all will working, Intel 1000 MT Desktop adapter - PCI, USB Audio  (if it will work easily Audigy 0160, later.. Good USB audio maybe could be enough) .
   Sata 64 GB SSD with Windows 98 + Windows 7 and Windows XP + 2 TB Data HDD, in future Sata DVD ROM - again later, i know have all hardware just on desk, after i make it working, i will place it into case.
     I dont know if it helped you to say if RAM patch make machine play games without modern HW issues.. and other patch will enable large HDD with NTFS partitions (but later, games first) ?

Bigger HDD access - I would like to edit partitions and update MBR with tools like Partion Wizzard, Paragon HDD, IOMEI, Acronis Disk Director, Gparted, R-Drive image think when restore image make some MBR updates too etc.. so special W9x MBR is not ideal for me, if is possible i need some patch to work with HDD is it is, im not using anything special just MBR with Extended block, primary 3 partitions + some logical.. I dont know if it matters, but im using grub bootloader everywhere, where i could. FS - FAT32 for Windows 98, NTFS for modern Wins, EXT4 for Linux - i dont care about it in W9x, no swap, no special linux partitions for home, opt, boot etc.. just one.

Edited by ruthan

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rloew    90

You made things more complicated by installing a lot of stuff and then trying to add the SATA Patch.
Normally the SATA Patch is installed during installation of Windows 9x, long before any other Drivers.
It is also not in the main section of my Website because it is not a fully polished package.

I do not normally use Intel Motherboards, so I don't know the various combinations of Drivers used with each Motherboard.
Only the Intel Disk Driver INF File needs to be removed or renamed so that it is not used to redetect the Drive.
You can send me the ICH5IDE.INF File you mentioned.

I cannot say if the disabled second GPU is an issue. I have not tested this configuration.
I haven't tested the Intel 1000 MT either.

The RAM Patch itself does not fix Hardware issues for games. In fact, a few DOS games break when you exceed 2GiB of RAM due to bugs in the games code or the DPMI module.

The MBR issue is confined to the Standard Windows 9x MBR. If you have something else, then there may be no problem and if so, my MBR might be usable. My special MBR only replaces the Standard MBR, so it causes should be no problems.
It only fixes the problem with Booting NTFS or ExFat Drives. It will not help with using NTFS Data Partitions. Grub4DOS uses it's own MBR.

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ruthan    1
Quote

The RAM Patch itself does not fix Hardware issues for games. In fact, a few DOS games break when you exceed 2GiB of RAM due to bugs in the games code or the DPMI module.

AMD970  :  I cant play games because i have freezes, it looks like that freezes are gone were gone, after i change NIC, but now i can boot with NIC enabled, because i got some VFAT error, so if RAM patch will make my machine boot and your Nvidia patch will give full Nvidia older cards experience, it will fix my gaming, i have problem with all games, i know that there will still some W9x issues, but now, i have HW/OS general issue.. 
   
  I just ordered Ram limitation patch for vfat fix, i will write more later - i have to go to sleep 5 AM here..

Conroe865:
 

Quote

I do not normally use Intel Motherboards, so I don't know the various combinations of Drivers used with each Motherboard.
Only the Intel Disk Driver INF File needs to be removed or renamed so that it is not used to redetect the Drive.
You can send me the ICH5IDE.INF File you mentioned.


Drivers for http://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/ConRoe865PE/index.asp#osW98 are still online, you just need to download file and extract data from *.exe by using 7zip, or install it in virtual machine and revert to snapshot before installing.

RFdisk patch - Probably last patch which i didnt buy for know :)

Quote

It only fixes the problem with Booting NTFS or ExFat Drives. It will not help with using NTFS Data Partitions. Grub4DOS uses it's own MBR.

  
You again a bit lost me, you wrote in the past this:

Quote

 

Paragon is complaining about the MBR on the Hard Drive. It wants to know if you want LBA or CHS Support for the Partition.

There is also a problem in the standard DOS/9x MBR. It Boots a Type 7 (NTFS/ExFAT/Etc...) Partition as CHS. I fixed this in my RFDISK MBR.

 

    So i already bought your patch to support hdd up to 2 TB and with one more patch, Paragon would be ok with disk and i will be able to access my ntfs partitions through Paragon.. Im right or not?

   I dont use Grub4dos, just "native" Linux grub, but i think that i would almost same or same from MBR code, i never used grub4dos, because i always using native Linux too beside Windows ones..
   

Edited by ruthan

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ruthan    1

AMD970: Ok i have installed RAMPatch + SPLIT8MB patch, without it machien didnt boot..

  Good news is that even with Intel Gigabite controller im now able to boot each time..
  Bad news is that i still have microfreezes (around 300-500ms) in games => computer is still not ready for gaming, so probably we need to mess with IRQs..  
+ himem.sys - crash - see bellow

   To RAM patch:
1) i dont understand ram amount size, i have 12 GB of RAM, but in Windows 98 i see 2472 MB (i dont mind that it is not full size, but nowhere in documentation find something like Ram amount parameter), 
or logic why its 2472 (my guest is something like all 32 bit adress space - space for 512MB of GPU and other devices, but documentation is silent about it..)

2) I got crash, when i enabled Config sys line with Himem.sys (no Himemx.sys) /Numhadles switch..  So im now booting without himem line at all.

    How patch coexist with already installed himemx and patched io.sys for 512 MB boot? I think that most of users use this, before your patch is installed..

In documentation is only something cryptic about himemx with prohook.

3) You mentioned RAMdisks, can i use some generic ramdisk app, or i need again some special paid version for you? // I dont need it, too much i just asking..

Edited by ruthan

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