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ruthan

X99 board without PCI slot, PCI-E only, almost no HW device detection after PCI bus device addition - dead end? PCI is working, but..

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ruthan    1

So i testest X99 and its booting (i did not tested more that that OS could be installed and its working after install, i already have 3 boards blocked by not fully working Win98 experiments..), so i on could run Win98 on 8/16 CPU and use whole 1 core, until will someone write some multicore patch for playing porn on second thread..

I used my quick and dirty Win98 USB installer:


I had issue that USB flash which was booting in other machine, MB couldnt read it at all (Disk IO error after targeting boot from IT), regarding to scandisk on Windows 7 was fine.. I cloned image of USB flash to other USB flash, its know issue for me, some MB dont like too boot from some cheap USB flashddrives.. So its good have few USB flashdriver from different vendors..

  Because board dont support USB device targeting (if it should emulate flloppy, hdd, dvd etc..) you will boot as C:.
I have installed windows to c:\Windows, because i dont like issues with D:\Windows, when are probably some bootloader files copied to C: - which is USB flash and would be removed.

  After first reboot i got classic, not enough memory, too much memory problem, i so i have run io.sys patch and add himem.exe with 1 GB option and edited System.ini, reboot installation continued fine. Because
I used SD card, its easy edit all on other pc, but you could copy file on USB flash and use edit, or Volkov commander etc..

MB- everything enabled(LAN,NIC etc..), only Sata and sSata in IDE mode and Legacy, EHCI and XHCI enabled.   

Used HW:
MSI X99S SLI PLUS + 5960X - bios sucks, there is almost nothing to set it, but i bought it only because was cheap. Because bios was made by amateurs, which trying to ignore any request for Bios fix, in 32 bit mode is available only 920 MB of RAM - tested in Win98/XP/Win7.. Simply adressing area for some bus device is too huge so all adress space is consumed by it  - my guess - based on device managed address space view.. Important is that there are other better X99 boards..
RAM 16 GB DDR4 3000 MHz
Storage - SD to IDE adapter ($8 but still crappy)+ IDE to Sata adapter (3$ one)
Mouse -PS2 to 2x  PS2 adapter was not working, i saw in saw GB bioses that it probably need special PS2 Y cable option, i used keyboard only (with USB to PS2 adapter Zalman 600 something KB)..
After isntallation i have connected USB board to USB2 port under PS2 - and i was really surprised that it worked and so i have connect PS2 mouse and i was ok
USB to PS2 - adapter mouse movement somehow worked but position detection was wrong, so i have removed it..
2x GPU(im usualy using this with Unraid..), 1st slot Geforce 7950GT 512 MB bios patched by Rloew patch, 2 slot Geforce 8400S
USB sound card, cheap one
NIC - any im waiting for Windows 98 compatible USB adapter and i there dont as far i know PCI-E Win98 compatible adapter and i dont have any PCI-E to PCI bridge
 

Picture proof and list of detected devices without adding PCI bus device (after it will be lot of messy..) - im saying it clean HW tree:

2017-08-17%2019.24.52-Core7.jpg

2017-08-16%2003.46.22.jpg

 

2017-08-16%2003.46.36.jpg


Except not enought memory bug, i didnt getting any error in installation, as in AMD970 installlation when i tried to use Rloew Ramdisk patch.. I patched io.sys and himem.exe 3.32 is maybe more stable for installation, i dont know..

Update:
I have added PCI bus device, but nothing was detect, maybe because this board has PCI-E only.. i dont know how it works after and if there is some X99 board with PCI slots.
I have tried to install Nvidia geforce 7950GT unofficial driver with Rloew patch, but i got CONFIGMG error, i really dont remember how i fix it lastime..

Edited by ruthan

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ruthan    1

Hello,
i have board with only PCI-E slots, Win98 where installed / normal mode is running but device tree is pretty clean.. No any specific number in devices name, only generic devices.. I added PCI device bus device manually which usually generated other device detection, but only some PCI-PCI bridges were detected and its all.. Does it mean dead end for Windows 98 usage?

  Or could be device detection forced by adding other devices? Even HDD controller is not here at all, make sense to try add  devices manually? I dont have any PCI-E to PCI reduction.. Im using only Geforce 7950GT PCI-E, which in device tree was only Standart VGA before i forced driver, i have tried to force Nvidia Unofficial 82 driver with Rloew patch, i dont get it working, unfortunatly, i dont have any other Windows 98 PCI-E GPU or device to test.. I theory G7950GT could work too, but i not at 1st attemp, sometimes help, try make it work multiple times, but i havent time today..

Here you can see clean device tree:
2017-08-16%2003.46.22.jpg

2017-08-16%2003.46.36.jpg
  PCI Bus device was added after times pictures were made but only 2 or 3 new PCI-PCI controller were detected.

Edited by ruthan

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ruthan    1
Quote

PCI Bus Driver is not installed.
Install it manually.

  Only old picture, im not professional photographer :) After addtion only 2 or 3 PCI-PCI controller or bridge were found nothing else, i cant make new photo now - im in city lair (Prague scorched heart of europe, we good here with alcohol, drugs and porn that is our heritage:) Yeah who cares, we was 3rd in the space..

Edited by ruthan

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rloew    90

Exactly how did you install the PCI Bus Driver?
Did it display any warnings or errors?
Does the PCI Bus Driver show up in Device Manager while in Safe Mode?

Try the PATCHOPT Program to fix the CONFIGMG error.

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LoneCrusader    95
8 hours ago, ruthan said:

i have board with only PCI-E slots, Win98 where installed / normal mode is running but device tree is pretty clean.. No any specific number in devices name, only generic devices.. I added PCI device bus device manually which usually generated other device detection, but only some PCI-PCI bridges were detected and its all.. Does it mean dead end for Windows 98 usage?
...
PCI Bus device was added after times pictures were made but only 2 or 3 new PCI-PCI controller were detected.

I have a Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4P motherboard + GeForce 7950GT 256MB with 95 OSR2 and 98SE up and running for testing.
Using rloew's RAM and SATA patches, the NVidia 82.69 driver (patched for shutdown), and my updated Intel chipset INF's.

x99_1.bmp

x99_2.bmpx99_3.bmp

x99_4.bmpx99_5.bmp

x99_6.bmp

I did notice that on this board the SATA controllers will only show up if they are in use. I had to connect a drive to another controller to make another one show up in the Device Manager. Apparently the BIOS disables devices that are not in use without consulting the user.

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98SE    7
1 hour ago, LoneCrusader said:

I have a Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4P motherboard + GeForce 7950GT 256MB with 95 OSR2 and 98SE up and running for testing.
Using rloew's RAM and SATA patches, the NVidia 82.69 driver (patched for shutdown), and my updated Intel chipset INF's.

x99_1.bmp

x99_2.bmpx99_3.bmp

x99_4.bmpx99_5.bmp

x99_6.bmp

I did notice that on this board the SATA controllers will only show up if they are in use. I had to connect a drive to another controller to make another one show up in the Device Manager. Apparently the BIOS disables devices that are not in use without consulting the user.

Nice Post.  I have some more questions regarding your setup.

First do you have any older Intel Chipsets: Z68, Z77, Z87, or Z97 in your possession for testing the same configuration using your GeForce 7950GT 256MB and the same sound card or device?

Second on your current X99 setup,  What sound card or audio device are you using and does it function and if so can you add screen shots of it from Device Manager?

How are you connecting your keyboard and mouse? Each into its own PS/2 port or using a USB port?

Do any of the onboard USB ports work in 98SE or if not are you using any USB card and if so what USB card?

Here are some tests I'm interested in seeing if they work on your system.

If you do a clean install of 98SE on the system with only "JUST" the RAM patch and nothing else can you still detect your graphics card GeForce 7950GT 256MB? and your sound card also working?

Let me know the result of this test.

 

If you doesn't work on the X99 without the SATA patch what are the issues?  Can you even install to a working desktop screen?  Does it even start the installation process at all?

 

If it fails on the X99 assuming you have another system from Z68, Z77, Z87, or Z97 that still has SATA IDE Compatibility mode can you redo the clean 98SE installation and install your Graphics card and sound card with the Ram Patch only and nothing else and get this system to work?

 

Edited by 98SE

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ruthan    1
Quote

Old pictures are misleading and not helpful.

   You are right, but in text in was explained and i have added a note under picture.. 
I was in situation, if should post not picture at all or post outdated picture, i choice to use outdated.

Edited by ruthan

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ruthan    1
Quote

I have a Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4P motherboard + GeForce 7950GT 256MB with 95 OSR2 and 98SE up and running for testing.
Using rloew's RAM and SATA patches, the NVidia 82.69 driver (patched for shutdown), and my updated Intel chipset INF's.

    Hmm board is also PCI less, that is good, but i see lots of board specific devices in the list.. Were they detected during installation, or its result of our updated Intel chipset INFs? I didnt use any INF, could you share them.

    Geforce you have 7950GT it could be difference, because i have use Rloew patch for it, it could matter.. 
    
    Im not wrong Rloew wrote or author of 82.69 wrote that here shutdown problem is already patched, my bad memory sorry.

   Non Win9x question, did you managed to make on board Intel, i suppose it is 217 or 218, i spend lots of time on it? Even with Blackwings drivers and other i was not able make it..

 

 

Edited by ruthan

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LoneCrusader    95
12 hours ago, 98SE said:

Nice Post.  I have some more questions regarding your setup.

First do you have any older Intel Chipsets: Z68, Z77, Z87, or Z97 in your possession for testing the same configuration using your GeForce 7950GT 256MB and the same sound card or device?

Yes. I have a representative board from almost every "family/level/generation" (whatever you wish to call it) of Intel chipset. On the "newer" ones I have chosen however to only spend money on Xxx chipset (X58/X79/X99) boards because I don't want the integrated graphics that come with Zxx boards.

I have at least one board using each of these Intel chipsets: 845, 865, 875, 915, 925, 945, 965, 975, P35, P45, X38, X48, X58, X79, and X99.
There's a Z87 or Z97 (not sure which) somewhere but I think it had a power problem.

I have already used each of these systems at some point or another in test setups just like the one pictured.

12 hours ago, 98SE said:

Second on your current X99 setup,  What sound card or audio device are you using and does it function and if so can you add screen shots of it from Device Manager

No audio or LAN yet. I have several of these newer systems but I have not tried to use them beyond proof-of-concepts yet.

However I do already have solutions for this. I found a Chinese PCI-E sound card using a 9x compatible chipset on eBay and ordered a couple. They do work. I also have PCI-E Network cards that have 9x drivers.

12 hours ago, 98SE said:

How are you connecting your keyboard and mouse? Each into its own PS/2 port or using a USB port?

This X99 board has two PS/2 connectors so I'm using PS/2 Keyboard and Mouse.

My X79 board has one PS/2 connector so in this case I use a USB Keyboard and PS/2 Mouse.

12 hours ago, 98SE said:

Do any of the onboard USB ports work in 98SE or if not are you using any USB card and if so what USB card

Onboard USB2 ports are working. I just haven't tried the USB3 ones yet. I used the older ones out of force of habit, lol.

12 hours ago, 98SE said:

Here are some tests I'm interested in seeing if they work on your system.

If you do a clean install of 98SE on the system with only "JUST" the RAM patch and nothing else can you still detect your graphics card GeForce 7950GT 256MB? and your sound card also working?

Let me know the result of this test.

The RAM patch would have no affect on device detection, this is absurd. Without the RAM patch the system probably would not boot, and even if one had the desire to play around with other "free" RAM tweaks and solutions (which have never worked for me), and if they did miraculously work long enough to boot to the desktop, the system would not be stable.

Bottom line, I don't waste my time trying to run 9X on a modern system without the right tools to do it.
And rloew's RAM and SATA patches are mandatory for that.

12 hours ago, 98SE said:

If you doesn't work on the X99 without the SATA patch what are the issues?  Can you even install to a working desktop screen?  Does it even start the installation process at all?

If it fails on the X99 assuming you have another system from Z68, Z77, Z87, or Z97 that still has SATA IDE Compatibility mode can you redo the clean 98SE installation and install your Graphics card and sound card with the Ram Patch only and nothing else and get this system to work?

Once again the RAM patch cannot affect device detection. Not having the SATA patch will not prevent you from running SETUP or reaching the desktop.
Of course these systems could "work" without the SATA patch. If you're willing to run in DOS compatibility mode, go right ahead.

4 hours ago, ruthan said:

    Hmm board is also PCI less, that is good, but i see lots of board specific devices in the list.. Were they detected during installation, or its result of our updated Intel chipset INFs? I didnt use any INF, could you share them.

    Geforce you have 7950GT it could be difference, because i have use Rloew patch for it, it could matter.. 
    
    Im not wrong Rloew wrote or author of 82.69 wrote that here shutdown problem is already patched, my bad memory sorry.

   Non Win9x question, did you managed to make on board Intel, i suppose it is 217 or 218, i spend lots of time on it? Even with Blackwings drivers and other i was not able make it..

 

The specific Device ID's come from my INF's. They can be found here. You will need the later versions that came along around post #31 or so for an X99 system.

I have a 512MB version of the 7950GT that I have used successfully before with rloew's NVidia patch, I just didn't have it in this system.

rloew wrote the Shutdown Fix for the 82.69 driver but you must apply it yourself. It's here in a thread somewhere.

I haven't tried running 2K or XP on the X99 system yet. I do have XP x86 + PAE and XP x64 on my X79 system though (once again this system is not daily-use yet).

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ruthan    1
Quote

However I do already have solutions for this. I found a Chinese PCI-E sound card using a 9x compatible chipset on eBay and ordered a couple. They do work. I also have PCI-E Network cards that have 9x drivers.

   Could you just share ebay links pleas?

Quote

Onboard USB2 ports are working.

  Which driver you using, I have tried nUSB3.6 on Z97 no luck.

Quote

I have at least one board using each of these Intel chipsets: 845, 865, 875, 915, 925, 945, 965, 975, P35, P45, X38, X48, X58, X79, and X99.
There's a Z87 or Z97 (not sure which) somewhere but I think it had a power problem.

   Had some many MBs some practical reason, or its just a hobby? About what about AMD boards?

Edited by ruthan

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LoneCrusader    95
3 hours ago, ruthan said:

   Could you just share ebay links pleas?

  Which driver you using, I have tried nUSB3.6 on Z97 no luck.

   Had some many MBs some practical reason, or its just a hobby? About what about AMD boards?

9x compatible PCI-E sound card. On my system the 95 .VXD driver worked better than the 98 WDM .SYS driver.
9x compatible PCI-E network card. (sold) BEWARE - you MUST get Version 1.x of this card. Version 2.x IS NOT 9x compatible.
On eBay many sellers use stock photos of v1.x card. Do not believe this, if you buy one make them show you a picture of the actual item.
Drivers here. How to tell them apart? Version 1 pic. Version 1 pic2. Version 2 pic. Version 2 pic2.

I am using the equivalent of NUSB 3.5, however my 98SE system is slipstreamed to include this out-of-the-box. I have seen problems in systems that have only USB2 controllers and no USB1 controllers. This is caused by USB1 drivers not getting copied to the system because there is no USB1 controller to install. USB2 drivers depend on USBD.SYS, a USB1 driver that the USB2 INF does not copy. Try copying USBD.SYS to your \WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\ folder or manually adding USBD.SYS to the CopyFiles section of USB2.INF before installing and see if it helps.

I have most of these boards because for years I tried to stockpile a bunch of 9x-compatible hardware. This is why I have so many 8xx systems. Later on some friends of mine who work for a large organization gave me a bunch of old hardware they were replacing. This is how I ended up with many 9xx systems. Beyond those it has become a hobby to try running these older systems on newer hardware, and when I can afford it I get a newer board and see what happens.
I don't have much AMD stuff except very old Super Socket 7. I have a Socket 939 nForce 3 AMD system and one slightly newer than that, but that's all.

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ruthan    1
Quote

he specific Device ID's come from my INF's. They can be found here. You will need the later versions that came along around post #31 or so for an X99 system.

  Cant find post number, link on post 31 has not link, there these last one?
INTELINF_9.4.0.1017_98SE ? - 2015-01-06

 

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LoneCrusader    95
26 minutes ago, ruthan said:

  Cant find post number, link on post 31 has not link, there these last one?
INTELINF_9.4.0.1017_98SE ? - 2015-01-06

 

Yes, that's it.

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