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X99 board without PCI slot, PCI-E only, almost no HW device detection after PCI bus device addition - dead end? PCI is working, but..


ruthan

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Yes, that's it.

 Its quite old does it means and non bugs found in 2 years, if yes its great job.

 I didnt get one thing in description is something like that INF patch is visual only just right names in device manager, but if is see pictures above its looks like that devices as PCI, USB etc.. really working?

Edited by ruthan
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17 hours ago, LoneCrusader said:

Yes. I have a representative board from almost every "family/level/generation" (whatever you wish to call it) of Intel chipset. On the "newer" ones I have chosen however to only spend money on Xxx chipset (X58/X79/X99) boards because I don't want the integrated graphics that come with Zxx boards.

I have at least one board using each of these Intel chipsets: 845, 865, 875, 915, 925, 945, 965, 975, P35, P45, X38, X48, X58, X79, and X99.
There's a Z87 or Z97 (not sure which) somewhere but I think it had a power problem.

I have already used each of these systems at some point or another in test setups just like the one pictured.

No audio or LAN yet. I have several of these newer systems but I have not tried to use them beyond proof-of-concepts yet.

However I do already have solutions for this. I found a Chinese PCI-E sound card using a 9x compatible chipset on eBay and ordered a couple. They do work. I also have PCI-E Network cards that have 9x drivers.

This X99 board has two PS/2 connectors so I'm using PS/2 Keyboard and Mouse.

My X79 board has one PS/2 connector so in this case I use a USB Keyboard and PS/2 Mouse.

Onboard USB2 ports are working. I just haven't tried the USB3 ones yet. I used the older ones out of force of habit, lol.

The RAM patch would have no affect on device detection, this is absurd. Without the RAM patch the system probably would not boot, and even if one had the desire to play around with other "free" RAM tweaks and solutions (which have never worked for me), and if they did miraculously work long enough to boot to the desktop, the system would not be stable.

Bottom line, I don't waste my time trying to run 9X on a modern system without the right tools to do it.
And rloew's RAM and SATA patches are mandatory for that.

Once again the RAM patch cannot affect device detection. Not having the SATA patch will not prevent you from running SETUP or reaching the desktop.
Of course these systems could "work" without the SATA patch. If you're willing to run in DOS compatibility mode, go right ahead.

The specific Device ID's come from my INF's. They can be found here. You will need the later versions that came along around post #31 or so for an X99 system.

I have a 512MB version of the 7950GT that I have used successfully before with rloew's NVidia patch, I just didn't have it in this system.

rloew wrote the Shutdown Fix for the 82.69 driver but you must apply it yourself. It's here in a thread somewhere.

I haven't tried running 2K or XP on the X99 system yet. I do have XP x86 + PAE and XP x64 on my X79 system though (once again this system is not daily-use yet).

Good info LoneCrusader.

Those X Prefix Intel Chipsets you listed are all the enthusiast level consumer motherboard so it's sort of the server class level for gaming usually.  I have the last Intel X79 spare but never tried X99.  X99 could be hacked to do XP using that motherboard.  Any OS plans aside from 98SE for it?  What's the top end benchmark game you have tested with your GeForce 7950GT?

The Z77 didn't all come with integrated GPUs it depends on which CPU as some are just like the X79/X99.  There are some Xeons that work on the Z77 that have no iGPU.  Also I did some testing and the Intel iGPU can crack the 512MB graphics memory issue without a problem.  I'll have to do some extra tests with benchmarks to see how it performs compared to the discrete graphics card.

<< The Z87 or Z97 (not sure which) somewhere but I think it had a power problem

What kind of power problem?  Did it shut down but leave you on that it is safe to shut down screen?

The Audio paired with the Video would be minimal gaming proof of concept.  I can already be certain just installing 98SE on modern hardware is possible but without further testing of video and audio drivers at the minimum it could be a dud.  The LAN is just a bonus if you want to get on the internet but from what I've heard now 98SE browsing is pretty much gimped so LAN now is just for network sharing or visiting older sites to download files.  I also have a Realtek LAN card that should work on 98SE but will have to test it out to confirm.

I was able to get the Ensoniq PCI audio card to get audio output.  I was dreading this wouldn't work.  I always liked that 98 Intro tune.  The last time I heard it was on the Sound Blaster ISA.  Some error about the MIDI Waveset driver issue I have to troubleshoot as it's causing some sort of problem.  Then move on to test other Creative Lab models if I have time.

The USB 3 ports don't work at all even in no driver mode once inside 98SE so you can find out if it is true on your X99.  The USB 2 ports are still good for USB keyboard in my test but didn't work for the USB mouse.  I tried testing a USB 2 card and the USB mouse works in it but so far no USB storage devices are working.

I'm not using any Windows file patching so far and I tried both SATA and SATA IDE Compatibility Mode and 98SE didn't care either way so far 8GB no issue installed.  Will push to 32GB later just for proof of stability.

Now for the system stability test.  I was planning on testing it with the 3DMark03 but on the XP system it seems to say it's missing a lot of necessary hardware to work which was confusing since it should work on 98, 2000, XP but I will try it on the 98SE system to see if I get the same issues.

Did you have any particular stability test software you used to confirm the system was stable in your eyes?

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Exactly how did you install the PCI Bus Driver?

 

 

 

   Through add new device wizzard, add from list - System device - PCI BUS device  
 

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Did it display any warnings or errors?

   No only message that device is working properly.
 

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Does the PCI Bus Driver show up in Device Manager while in Safe Mode?

  Yest it was.
 

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Try the PATCHOPT Program to fix the CONFIGMG error.

   Already did, no change.

 

Here are new device detected after addition of PCI bus:

- im sure about Enumerator, it could be detected before. Ignore rest i did this picture during device removal process.
2017-08-19%2023.03.04.jpg

Edited by ruthan
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10 hours ago, ruthan said:

 Its quite old does it means and non bugs found in 2 years, if yes its great job.

 I didnt get one thing in description is something like that INF patch is visual only just right names in device manager, but if is see pictures above its looks like that devices as PCI, USB etc.. really working?

Yes, the INF's really only provide correct device names. A system should work just fine without them, but it is nice to get correct specific names to help identify problems and to prevent having a list of "Unknown Devices" and "PCI cards". All Intel INF packages are like this; none of them (even the old 9x compatible versions) actually contain any driver files such as .VXD, .SYS, .PDR, .MPD, etc etc.

8 hours ago, 98SE said:

Those X Prefix Intel Chipsets you listed are all the enthusiast level consumer motherboard so it's sort of the server class level for gaming usually.  I have the last Intel X79 spare but never tried X99.  X99 could be hacked to do XP using that motherboard.  Any OS plans aside from 98SE for it?  What's the top end benchmark game you have tested with your GeForce 7950GT?

I will probably be using XP/XP x64 on the system as well when I put it into everyday use. Right now I have an adequate system for browsing online with XP x64 (P67 chipset) and I have it along with several other machines which need to have their contents archived and transferred to any newer system I would use on a daily basis. I haven't needed to move up yet, and I will have to set aside time to do so.
Unfortunately I haven't had time to do any gaming with my newer systems yet. It's part of my plan, but real life and work and such always seem to get in my way and must therefore take precedence. Also doesn't help that my friends who I used to game with all have the same issues now. :(

8 hours ago, 98SE said:

<< The Z87 or Z97 (not sure which) somewhere but I think it had a power problem

What kind of power problem?  Did it shut down but leave you on that it is safe to shut down screen?

No, not a power problem with the OS or shutdown. A hardware power problem on the motherboard itself. I kept expecting it to fry, so I stopped fooling with it. I think this board was a RMA that an eBay seller somehow got ahold of (and of course resold AS-IS).

8 hours ago, 98SE said:

The USB 3 ports don't work at all even in no driver mode once inside 98SE so you can find out if it is true on your X99.  The USB 2 ports are still good for USB keyboard in my test but didn't work for the USB mouse.  I tried testing a USB 2 card and the USB mouse works in it but so far no USB storage devices are working.

I will check the USB3 ports later. If your USB Storage is not working you might want to read this issue I had with a X58 board and experiment with the BIOS settings that I found to be the culprit.

8 hours ago, 98SE said:

Did you have any particular stability test software you used to confirm the system was stable in your eyes?

Not yet. I will get to it eventually (probably not soon, other projects are currently ongoing).

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LoneCrusader:

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Possibly some miscommunication about removing devices in the various threads. Is this a clean install or a moved install? If it's a clean one you do not want to remove any devices that actually did get detected before installing the PCI Bus. Then after installing it more devices should appear. It is very strange that this is not happening, you may be right about something on that board not working properly. 

Newer systems use an ACPI enumerator before a PCI enumerator so that's why PCI Bus does not get automatically installed; 9X does not recognize the newer ACPI controllers and therefore doesn't know what to do with them. But I suppose we should continue the discussion of this system in your X99 thread.

 

     Its clean installation, only INF were added later. Ok can we do something to fix ACPI enumerator, or this board is dead end?

   SIV or Unknow device identifier also dont see any other devices than already installed.

Edited by ruthan
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12 hours ago, LoneCrusader said:

Yes, the INF's really only provide correct device names. A system should work just fine without them, but it is nice to get correct specific names to help identify problems and to prevent having a list of "Unknown Devices" and "PCI cards". All Intel INF packages are like this; none of them (even the old 9x compatible versions) actually contain any driver files such as .VXD, .SYS, .PDR, .MPD, etc etc.

I will probably be using XP/XP x64 on the system as well when I put it into everyday use. Right now I have an adequate system for browsing online with XP x64 (P67 chipset) and I have it along with several other machines which need to have their contents archived and transferred to any newer system I would use on a daily basis. I haven't needed to move up yet, and I will have to set aside time to do so.
Unfortunately I haven't had time to do any gaming with my newer systems yet. It's part of my plan, but real life and work and such always seem to get in my way and must therefore take precedence. Also doesn't help that my friends who I used to game with all have the same issues now. :(

No, not a power problem with the OS or shutdown. A hardware power problem on the motherboard itself. I kept expecting it to fry, so I stopped fooling with it. I think this board was a RMA that an eBay seller somehow got ahold of (and of course resold AS-IS).

I will check the USB3 ports later. If your USB Storage is not working you might want to read this issue I had with a X58 board and experiment with the BIOS settings that I found to be the culprit.

Not yet. I will get to it eventually (probably not soon, other projects are currently ongoing).

Yes those INF would only provide names to devices that don't require manual driver installation.  Just to make it look nice on your Device Manager.  Installing XP onto the Z170 you will find a lot of these unknown devices since no XP Chipset file exists but seeing you have one for 98SE it should be possible to port a similar one for XP but this doesn't affect XP from working and just more for aesthetics of having no ugly yellow questions marks and it just makes it harder to navigate which devices really need the drivers but that can easily be solved by examining the Hardware IDs and using Windows 10 to check the same Hardware ID.  I just focus on the Video, Audio, USB, and LAN.  All else aren't as vital but I did at one point try to find every driver or at least get rid of the ? on a laptop and you end spending a lot of wasted time because some drivers just don't exist for the OS so they will stay with it.

That power problem sound scary.  I usually keep my systems running 24/7 for burn in test and most while I am awake before allowing it to go non stop.  But so far I've been lucky buying fanless power supplies on eBay.  It either works or it doesn't and if it runs fine for a week it's usually a good sign but I don't stress it to the max so who knows if there is a problem with it if I ran triple Sli cards on it.

I haven't tried XP-64 for a daily OS so I'd be curious how FireFox 64 bit interacts with that OS since it can natively handle over 3.2GB > 128GB max I believe.  I am still experiencing the over 1.5GB -> 2.7GB memory usage range sluggishness then to complete stalling to near freezing and needing to end task.  If you do get a chance to play around on the XP 64-bit try the FF 43.0.4 64-bit version I left a link in one of the other threads on Browsers that work on XP by Aiko Chan.

http://www.msfn.org/board/profile/408069-~♥aiko♥chan♥~/

It should run all websites properly and has SHA-256 cert. so newer site upgrades won't make it obsolete and best of all 1080P Youtube videos work fine instead of stuck at 240P for the moment.

 

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On 18.8.2017 at 10:50 PM, LoneCrusader said:

However I do already have solutions for this. I found a Chinese PCI-E sound card using a 9x compatible chipset on eBay and ordered a couple. They do work.

Can you be bothered to provide some info on that card? Like, i.e., chipset, or even a name that google can digest? Needs not be today, if there are more important things on your mind...

Edited by ragnargd
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1 hour ago, ragnargd said:

Can you be bothered to provide some info on that card? Like, i.e., chipset, or even a name that google can digest? Needs not be today, if there are more important things on your mind...

He linked to two eBay items and in the title you can see the Chipset.

The network card I can't find out the chipset.

Edited by 98SE
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On 19.8.2017 at 2:54 AM, LoneCrusader said:

9x compatible PCI-E sound card. On my system the 95 .VXD driver worked better than the 98 WDM .SYS driver.
9x compatible PCI-E network card. (sold) BEWARE - you MUST get Version 1.x of this card. Version 2.x IS NOT 9x compatible.
On eBay many sellers use stock photos of v1.x card. Do not believe this, if you buy one make them show you a picture of the actual item.
Drivers here. How to tell them apart? Version 1 pic. Version 1 pic2. Version 2 pic. Version 2 pic2.

I own the network card, having two of them. Very nice. I have the drivers slipstreamed into my installation folder...

When trying to download the drivers for the Soundcard from some "Dynamode" site, to see if it's actually a w9x-compatible driver, i caught a version where the readme.txt is actually an executable. Thank god i was using linux, so it just crashed because of lack of rights and wrong platform...  :blushing: ... Never let your guard down... (now, again, something to sink my forensic-teeth into...).

Unfortunately, the soundcard does not get delivered to Germany for that price - ah... found it... ordered two. Let's see.

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2 hours ago, ragnargd said:

I own the network card, having two of them. Very nice. I have the drivers slipstreamed into my installation folder...

When trying to download the drivers for the Soundcard from some "Dynamode" site, to see if it's actually a w9x-compatible driver, i caught a version where the readme.txt is actually an executable. Thank god i was using linux, so it just crashed because of lack of rights and wrong platform...  :blushing: ... Never let your guard down... (now, again, something to sink my forensic-teeth into...).

Unfortunately, the soundcard does not get delivered to Germany for that price - ah... found it... ordered two. Let's see.

Yeah the Network card seems a bit fishy to me.  I have some older DFE's but they are PCI only.  I found a Realtek PCIe one that could do 98SE/XP/W7 and I think it worked in W10 also.  But I have to test it out for 98SE to verify.  It's one of those really short PCIe cards.

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1 hour ago, 98SE said:

Yeah the Network card seems a bit fishy to me.  I have some older DFE's but they are PCI only.  I found a Realtek PCIe one that could do 98SE/XP/W7 and I think it worked in W10 also.  But I have to test it out for 98SE to verify.  It's one of those really short PCIe cards.

Well, the network-card is NOT fishy. It has a Realtek 8111B chipset, and from all my components, made the less fuss. The soundcard... well, if LoneCrusader said it's fine, it is fine. The page where i found the driver is definitely fishy... or was pwned (just more likely). Just why someone put a trojan into a driver of such an obscure item, that goes just beyond me. On the other side, he had a near-hit with me...

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1 hour ago, ragnargd said:

Well, the network-card is NOT fishy. It has a Realtek 8111B chipset, and from all my components, made the less fuss. The soundcard... well, if LoneCrusader said it's fine, it is fine. The page where i found the driver is definitely fishy... or was pwned (just more likely). Just why someone put a trojan into a driver of such an obscure item, that goes just beyond me. On the other side, he had a near-hit with me...

Ahh if it has a Realtek then it's the same as mine.  You should get it directly from the Realtek site not some unknown one.

Let me see if I can dig it up.

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=13&PFid=5&Level=5&Conn=4&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false

Auto installation program (Support Win98SE/WinME) v5.708  2008/11/24

 

 

Edited by 98SE
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I DID get the driver for my NIC from Realtek directly, so all is fine... :-)

But thank you anyway!!!

For the soundcard, i think drivers will either be on an accompanying disk, or can be acquired directly from CMedia.

Edited by ragnargd
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1 hour ago, ragnargd said:

I DID get the driver for my NIC from Realtek directly, so all is fine... :-)

For the soundcard, i think drivers will either be on an accompanying disk, or can be acquired directly from CMedia.

There is a SB Audigy PCIe model.  It might be interesting to see if the SB Audigy PCI model driver can work with it by just adding the Hardware ID.

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