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Nomen

Is MSFN.org now practically unusable for win-98/Opera 12?

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jaclaz    927
Just now, 98SE said:

Wait Opera 12.50? works with Kernel Ex?

Then someone should try Opera 12.15.  On XP I can confirm Youtube videos are working.  I can't vouch for how it performs on other sites.  FireFox 43.0.4 is my recommended lowest minimum version that should probably work for a long time on XP and high resolution Youtube videos 480P+ working.  There are lower FF versions I've tested let me dig that up.

FireFox 34.0, 34.0b9, 34.0.5
Video scrolling is not laggy
nvidia quoting response works

These were successful and should work on 99% of all sites I would say but gimped 240P Youtube Flash playback.  So this won't be good for the Youtube experience but just general websites like MSFN and other forums.

12.50 doesn't exist AFAIK, the reference is likely to a 12.05 alpha version (most probably a typo by Schwups :w00t: or a mis-labeling by the good Opera guys):

 that reportedly works with KernelEx AND KernelEx Extensions.

This is probably the last detailed info on 12.x versions, there are later a 12.17 and a later 12.18 "special fix":

http://www.opera.com/docs/history/presto/

https://web.archive.org/web/20130602024631/http://www.opera.com:80/docs/history/#o12

The above given post is dated June 27,2012, so around the time the 12.0x version were around and before the 12.10b.

This thread is about 98/Me, NOT about XP!

jaclaz

 

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98SE    7
1 hour ago, jaclaz said:

12.50 doesn't exist AFAIK, the reference is likely to a 12.05 alpha version (most probably a typo by Schwups :w00t: or a mis-labeling by the good Opera guys):

 that reportedly works with KernelEx AND KernelEx Extensions.

This is probably the last detailed info on 12.x versions, there are later a 12.17 and a later 12.18 "special fix":

http://www.opera.com/docs/history/presto/

https://web.archive.org/web/20130602024631/http://www.opera.com:80/docs/history/#o12

The above given post is dated June 27,2012, so around the time the 12.0x version were around and before the 12.10b.

This thread is about 98/Me, NOT about XP!

jaclaz

 

I understand that but the actual FireFox and Opera installers work on multiple operating systems if you know which ones were the last version supporting your OS.  I don't know if 43.0.4 lets you even attempt the installer or not.  But if it doesn't perhaps installing it on XP then copying the folder over to 98SE may work?  Using the same Browser version may work on 98SE if given it already works in XP for those websites.  Unfortunately after reading all the comments back and forth and the last versions possible with and without the Kernel Ex it is starting to sound like the writing is already on the wall.

My conclusion is 9X/ME Youtube browsing is now dead except for some really old websites you can still navigate.  Unless they find a way to get FireFox 43.0.4 to work under 9X/ME I find it doubtful newer websites will function properly on it as the new SHA-256 certificates may pose a problem as more websites continually update away from SHA-1.

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winxpi    0

Regarding FF/Opera/all browsers and kernelex versions:

Please all look here

http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/wiki/

Btw no chromium/ie7 and upwards wont work on windows 9x. Some webkit engine browsers do but never got youtube running there. Also if you got better machines with html5 support you might research from the opera homepage "opera emulator". Theres a version 11.50 that did work for me also v11 and 12 but that didnt. Requires kernelex but its not listed on the kernelex wiki seems xp sp2 or windows 2000.were.intended to be the minimzm versions of operating system. Maybe that you require some additional dlls.
Its supposed to be for testing (like android emulators or so) but flash player wont work.
Just a last question to nomen: Opera 12.18s dll you somehow parzly are using inside an other opera browser version does it support flash? Cause some versions of opera wont use flash at all, whereas 12.02. Im to lazy too look it up. But if the instalkation folder has a plugin-wrapper folder flash wont run atleast not on windows 9x.

Edited by winxpi

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winxpi    0

I can testify, that msfn.org login also doesnt work on older browsers for Windows 9x even with KernelEx.

Funny enough: I was able to login with IE6, but ofcourse I wasnt able to comment at all.

Firefox/Opera and even an older Webkit version didnt even allow me to login.

I checked it this morning on my Windows 98SE. KernelEx 4.5.2 is installed.

Edited by winxpi

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Back in 2009, someone did build a webkit-based browser onto Windows 98
http://arorabrowser.blogspot.com/2009/01/modern-webkit-browser-on-windows-98.html

A very old versiom of google chrome was usable on Windows ME with the use of KernelEx and blackwingcat's old chrome tool. Another way apparently was fully updating Windows 98/ME and putting XP dll's in the system.


While it's outdated now, couldn't someone backport later versions of Arora and qt5-based software onto 9x? If I'm correct it would require using Qt 4.4.3 and a Win98 compatible program compiler such as TDM-GCC 5.1.0-3. I've never coded before, so I'm not sure of this.

Edited by ~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~

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winxpi    0

@~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~ 

I might check when I got time if that webkit browser you linked to works.

The posters in the "Chrome on me" topic seem to came to the conclusion that it wasnt Windows ME at all.

At least one of them that watched the video.

User "Flasche"'s post of a PM of the user that made the video (btw. the video got deleted), also implies that that user also used Windows 2000 some times and doesnt remember how he did it.

More interesting concerning Webkit would be if one could implement also more modern webkit version files (once they are compiled). 

Its some work to do and there are also instructions on the net how to "Building Webkit".

Having a working older browser relying on webkit that could be upgraded would be an option. Also I think "Gecko" (used in Firefox, K-Meleon and others)-browsers that are not so well known might be a try. If somebody has a source code for opensource browser and programming skills (with the right tools) it might be doable somehow. 

All browsers I tested so far that are webkitbased however didnt support Youtube, another one didnt have the ability to load Wikipedia and E-Mails are another thing. This security certificates stuff is serious stuff that would maybe only work if theres a browser that allowed e-mailing before and is now available as opensource. Since many Linux users wont be so interested to support Windows users at all its not easy to say if that exists.

Edited by winxpi

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DougB    5

> I can testify, that msfn.org login also doesnt work on older
> browsers for Windows 9x even with KernelEx.

Hmmm... with Pale Moon v3.6.32 (a Firefox fork), i'm replying right now after having signed in. (Running under "pimped up" 98SE with KernelEx, of course.)

But as usual, after each forum update, it does lose some functionality. In particular, after the update last month, i can no longer see the individual headers (thin, colored rectangles with the name of poster and date) for posts. And i can sign in... but not sign out.

Maybe i should start a similar thread for Firefox / Pale Moon?

- Doug B.

Edited by DougB
punctuation

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winxpi    0
16 hours ago, DougB said:

> I can testify, that msfn.org login also doesnt work on older
> browsers for Windows 9x even with KernelEx.

Hmmm... with Pale Moon v3.6.32 (a Firefox fork), i'm replying right now after having signed in. (Running under "pimped up" 98SE with KernelEx, of course.)

But as usual, after each forum update, it does lose some functionality. In particular, after the update last month, i can no longer see the individual headers (thin, colored rectangles with the name of poster and date) for posts. And i can sign in... but not sign out.

Maybe i should start a similar thread for Firefox / Pale Moon?

- Doug B.

 

If the topic here also had the keywords Palemoon maybe it would be better.

Does it require KernelEx only or Kext too?

If its a different thing than no problem make a new topic. Additionally I could link to it from the "General discussion" posting I made. Its what I expected. IE6 allows login but you dont see alot of stuff. You could read, but you werent able to write. Logout isnt possible via button, but ofcourse in the source code you could find the link.

But thats not how browsers are meant to be used for the common users.

Edited by winxpi

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On 9/4/2017 at 2:43 AM, ABCDEFG said:

@~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~

You need Qt if you want to compile it.

https://download.qt.io/archive/qt/4.4/

But this is old browser, it's allmost useless now...

Yea, it's outdated now but can't it be upgraded? It is open source after all. If I can just figure out how to backport features from newer webkit web browsers such as Qupzilla into arora then Windows 9x users can finally use the internet without hassle. Needed features would require HTML5 support, Flash?, Protocols, maybe spoofing to avoid being blocked, and others things I probably don't know of.

Edited by ~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~

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ABCDEFG    7

Both Arora and Qupzilla are based on QtWebEngine which now uses code from Chromium.

https://wiki.qt.io/QtWebEngine

And it seams that they are just small modifications on Qt demo browser.

I compiled Arora and Qt demo browser, if someone need this they are here:

Arora Browser

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=79658569515155393611

Qt_demo - Browser

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=35884629957549681339

They work natively on w98/Me.

Edited by ABCDEFG
  • Upvote 1

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winxpi    0
21 hours ago, ABCDEFG said:

Both Arora and Qupzilla are based on QtWebEngine which now uses code from Chromium.

https://wiki.qt.io/QtWebEngine

And it seams that they are just small modifications on Qt demo browser.

I compiled Arora and Qt demo browser, if someone need this they are here:

Arora Browser

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=79658569515155393611

Qt_demo - Browser

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=35884629957549681339

They work natively on w98/Me.

Cool. Have to try it out when on the 98se pc again.

Btw ABCDEFG I wrote a topic regarding Webkit in another area of MSFN board:

If you have time you might want to read my question. Since you compiled the source codes, you may know what these tutorials mean maybe.

I want to try out "building" /compiling a webkit version for Windows(if the tutorials really are right and usable on Windows). 

I think the webkit original files from the webkit homepage might only be testable on Windows 2000 and upwards since the issue for chrome (not runable on Windows 9x) existed already when Blink wasnt even an engine yet. You can just do basic things ofcourse with an engine as far as I know.. Thats why browsers are browsers(have plugins and other stuff too).

 

Edited by winxpi

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ABCDEFG    7

@winxpi

Maybe there can be some issues.

1. Cygwin. The problem with cygwin is that they made changes too fast and they don't keep older versions.

2. http://blog.ashodnakashian.com/2011/09/building-webkit-on-windows/ ->

Quote

Install QuickTime SDK in the default location.

Download the Support Libraries from Apple.

I don't know which version? Are they still available for download? And how they are licensed?

Edited by ABCDEFG

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