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Is MSFN.org now practically unusable for win-98/Opera 12?

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17 hours ago, ABCDEFG said:

@winxpi

Maybe there can be some issues.

1. Cygwin. The problem with cygwin is that they made changes too fast and they don't keep older versions.

2. http://blog.ashodnakashian.com/2011/09/building-webkit-on-windows/ ->

I don't know which version? Are they still available for download? And how they are licensed?

I downloaded a "cygwin-downloader.zip" the files in it are are from february 2008. And since both pages write about different stuff (like the mentioned QuickTime SDK) according to "blog.ashodnakashian.com" its confusing. 

If the questions related to the webkit version in general : Randomly I found a google hit for a webkit version, throw the link into web.archive.org and it was downloaded.

But this doesnt work always. It all depends if the file ever was safed  by the webarchive. Some are safed some are not. The webkit homepage seems to be one of these cases where it was stopped being crawled by search machines if my assumptions are right (its not uncommon, its the reason some pages are not listed in google at all and if you remove it afterwards when the page was already crawled once google just wont list the newest content in search results).

Also the webarchive.org seems to only backup pages/files that were really often accessed it seems.

I dont know about QuickTime SDK or even the DirectX SDK, but I do think QuickTime SDK could only be found on "oldversions" "oldapps" or by research. It didnt work for the Apple page as far as I remember. 

Thanks for you input =).

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54 minutes ago, winxpi said:

I downloaded a "cygwin-downloader.zip"

This is not Cygwin! Like it's name says, it's just downloader for Cygwin packages. Complete Cygwin with all packages is big, it's size is in GigaBytes, lots of GigaBytes!

When Cygwin installer/downloader is started it show list of mirrors where packages can be downloaded from, but problem is because they don't keep older packages.

I have almost complete Cygwin archive from 2002-2007 it's size is ~30GB.

You said that source is from 2012, so they probably used cygwin packages from 2011-2012.

I have everything except cygwin(2011-2012) and this Apple libraries and QuickTime SDK.

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On 9/6/2017 at 3:01 AM, ABCDEFG said:

Both Arora and Qupzilla are based on QtWebEngine which now uses code from Chromium.

https://wiki.qt.io/QtWebEngine

And it seams that they are just small modifications on Qt demo browser.

I compiled Arora and Qt demo browser, if someone need this they are here:

Arora Browser

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=79658569515155393611

Qt_demo - Browser

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=35884629957549681339

They work natively on w98/Me.

Thank you so much! I'll test these two tomorrow morning.
So in theory, someone can create a newer web browser for Windows 9x. It would just require building off from either  building off the Arora Browser or the Qt Demo Browser using Qt 4.4 (and reprogramming newer versions by self). I have no idea how much more limited/difficult Qt 4.4 would be compared to the current version 5 when implanting/backporting code.

My stupid head still can't figure out how to use Qt. (Still need to get my head wrapped around if anything else is needed besides a compiler)

I'm going to test this on my 98SE installation tomorrow.
EDIT: I can confirm both work natively on Windows 98SE :D

EduexJT.jpg
But a LOT of work would be required in order to make it up-to-date.

Opera 12.02 has a score of 292 and scored 100% on the acid3 test >_<

Edited by ~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~
  • Like 1

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@ ABCDEFG Ok thanks for that info about cygwin.

 

Just for your info, if you read the first two pages of the topic somebody claimed that MSFN login and writing does still work for Palemoon 3.6.

I havent tested Palemoon on Windows 98SE yet, but its a fork of Firefox, so maybe this just means Firefox 3.6 and better are required now.

Anyway that doesnt change the issues with Opera. I also read (but as far as we know Opera 12.02 is the highest version running so this maybe more intersting for systems with Windows 2000) that the best Opera version with presto is not Opera 12.18 but Opera 12.14.On some russian board regarding opera somebody claimed (if translations were correct) that Opera 12.14 had a better code than the ones that followed, so that rendering of pages was worse with 12.15 and up. So just as an info if somebody uses Opera 12.1x for other systems .

The Opera 12.5 (alpha) Next versions only worked with KEXT so thats no real solution for the common MSFN user (and honestly the best would if a browser allows the most important things on Windows 9x  vanilla but hm I dont know if its likely).

I dont think Retrozilla works better on this page (or does it maybe).

You cannot run Opera Mini (for phones) or UC Browser (althought Windows 2000 said to supports it) on Windows 9x, but "Opera Mobile Emulator" may work (with KernelEx).

This is were you can get it from:

https://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/sdlbream/

 

I never tried the html5test or wrote down the useragent. I think it uses webkit but might be presto. Its just an emulator for the mobile browser.

Flash wont work but HTML5 could/should (didnt on mine). The last version I could try for 9x was 11.50. Version 12 and higher wont work atleast they didnt on my Win 9x.

They are outdated now, but someone might want to know about it anyway. Runs ofcourse only with KernelEx.

Login also didnt work with that versions. But there might be someone that wanted to try it too.

Edited by winxpi

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Maybe i will try it when i find some time, but i can't promise anything...
 

 

Edited by ABCDEFG

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On 8.9.2017 at 7:23 AM, ABCDEFG said:

This is not Cygwin! Like it's name says, it's just downloader for Cygwin packages. Complete Cygwin with all packages is big, it's size is in GigaBytes, lots of GigaBytes!

When Cygwin installer/downloader is started it show list of mirrors where packages can be downloaded from, but problem is because they don't keep older packages.

I have almost complete Cygwin archive from 2002-2007 it's size is ~30GB.

You said that source is from 2012, so they probably used cygwin packages from 2011-2012.

I have everything except cygwin(2011-2012) and this Apple libraries and QuickTime SDK.

Btw. before I forget to ask:

Yeah we are in the Opera 12 section so I must post also something regarding the issue here.

Silly is yesterday I was able to go here with the Opera mobile browser 12.10 (on Android ofcourse not Win9x) but also on that system some functions where missing. The quote feature didnt work for example.

Opera Mobile 12.10 uses presto, just like the desktop version for Windows. Its also slow like the version for Windows 98 when loading the board(but ofcourse also other sites).

However the Windows 98 (Kernelex) version Opera 12.02 didnt even allow login. Could be just a random incident, still it would be interesting to check how Windows 2000 users are doing with Opera to see if this is Opera 12.02 <= specific or just has to do maybe with the operating system (what I rather dont think).

I think its about the certificates since I had such problems with outlook page too sometimes, and when I for example cleaned the cache it would work.
 

So now to why Im quoting.

What exactly are the Apple libraries?

Are they part of the QuickTime SDK or just another must-have for webkit on Windows?!

Edited by winxpi

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This new version of the forum is very slow in Opera 12. Scrolling doesn't work work: scrollbar always indicates the top of the page and dragging it down causes a blank screen to show. I have switched to using Firefox on WinXP.

I don't see why the forum dedicated to discussing and supporting old operating systems needs this bloated forum engine.

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Disable JS. I switched the theme and its now at least as good as before in SM2.0.14 (like FF/PM 3.6) on 98se+Kex2016.

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Posted (edited)
On 9/6/2017 at 3:01 AM, ABCDEFG said:

Both Arora and Qupzilla are based on QtWebEngine which now uses code from Chromium.

https://wiki.qt.io/QtWebEngine

And it seams that they are just small modifications on Qt demo browser.

I compiled Arora and Qt demo browser, if someone need this they are here:

Arora Browser

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=79658569515155393611

Qt_demo - Browser

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=35884629957549681339

They work natively on w98/Me.

Did you just use Qt 4.4.3 alone or use creator too? If so, what version of creator? I wanna see if I can find a compatible version of Qt creator for Windows 98. I've begun to take a programming class in Java and hope to take a crack at this. In theory, all I need is the interface functions, seperate protocols (because Windows 98's is outdated), and the actual functions right?

I wanna start by obtaining Arora browser and fixing its certificate issue.

Is there a certian folder you accessed Qt for an interface? I installed it a while back and still can't figure it out.

Edited by ~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~

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On 19/09/2017 at 5:08 AM, winxpi said:

What exactly are the Apple libraries?

Are they part of the QuickTime SDK or just another must-have for webkit on Windows?!

https://developer.apple.com/opensource/

WebKit Support Library and WebKit Auxiliary Library

Their name is self-explanatory...

Old version is not available and license looks retarded - https://developer.apple.com/opensource/internet/webkit_sptlib_agree.html

-

@~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~

No, I don't need to use Qt Creator.

This is only thing i used -> qt-win-opensource-4.4.0-mingw.exe - https://download.qt.io/archive/qt/4.4/

And old MinGW v3.2.0

 

  • Upvote 1

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For three or four days, I get only a blue background here on this board and a short text "ipsfocus42-november1". All Opera versions (10.1 up to 12.5) are affected. Do you have the same problem and did you find a setting or workaround?

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On 10/14/2017 at 9:46 AM, ABCDEFG said:

https://developer.apple.com/opensource/

WebKit Support Library and WebKit Auxiliary Library

Their name is self-explanatory...

Old version is not available and license looks retarded - https://developer.apple.com/opensource/internet/webkit_sptlib_agree.html

-

@~♥Aiko♥Chan♥~

No, I don't need to use Qt Creator.

This is only thing i used -> qt-win-opensource-4.4.0-mingw.exe - https://download.qt.io/archive/qt/4.4/

And old MinGW v3.2.0

 

Can you link me to MinGW 3.2.0? I can't seem to find an older version.

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@schwups I confirm the issue. The text is visible in only-text mode, but the rest is unusable. The blue background doesn't appear with IE6(!) and Firefox 2/3, so the board is readable, but, anyway, practically unusable for the rest as for Opera.

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Hi Schwups.
It seems that we are the only ones interested in this.
Anyway, i would have found a workaround, using the opera content block. But i'm just not 100% sure if, for the board rules, i'm allowed to write it here.
I ask permission to admin before. Can i report it? Thanks

This is my actual layout: 21ceg3s.jpg

Edited by Commodore
Add print screen
  • Upvote 2

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