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dork

Is Vista a lost cause on modern hardware?

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burd    50
2 hours ago, Dibya said:

Dx9 is far faster than dx11 regards of performance . Donot believe? Do some benchmark 

You believe on stupid words of ms. Anyway modern ssd do trim at their chipset level so no need of such stupid features anymore.  After one year when I ran trim command on my ssd how long it has run? Any one can guess.  Less than 10 second yes man I am not joking. 

can xp and vista have inbuilt trim support with modification? is it possible?

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Dibya    230
15 minutes ago, burd said:

can xp and vista have inbuilt trim support with modification? is it possible?

It is not needed in modern SSD more over  intel ahci driver do it for you .

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burd    50
30 minutes ago, Dibya said:

It is not needed in modern SSD more over  intel ahci driver do it for you .

Ok,but i have fernando's modded driver not intel,will that also do?

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xpclient    183
2 hours ago, Dibya said:

You believe on stupid words of ms. Anyway modern ssd do trim at their chipset level so no need of such stupid features anymore.  After one year when I ran trim command on my ssd how long it has run? Any one can guess.  Less than 10 second yes man I am not joking. 

Actually the benchmarks that I've done and my own usage of Vista and Windows 7 over the years showed me the same thing - that dwm.exe was consuming a significant amount of memory as more apps were opened in Vista - the memory usage scaled linearly with the number of windows opened, whereas in Win7, 8, 10 it is more constant. So I didn't just "believe on stupid words of ms." :) 

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7 hours ago, xpclient said:

Don't get me wrong. I love Vista for its innovations and it's far better than Windows 10! :crazy: I think the animation smoothness might just be an internal setting? that you can't control - they tweaked the animation speed in 7 and again in 8. I remember they were smoother in Vista (especially noticeable when minimizing windows) but it's such a minor thing. My eyes aren't sharp enough to notice any differences between 7 and 8.1's animation smoothness, but now that you mention it, I'll check this when I reboot to 7. :D

But Vista's DWM does consume more memory (read the Reduced Memory Footprint section of this article: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/e7/2009/04/25/engineering-windows-7-graphics-performance/). And Windows 7 does support TRIM making use of SSDs possible without the SSD's performance reducing over time.

Anything is better than Windows 10, lol.

Yes, the animations are much smoother in Vista compared with 7. The animations in 7 aren't necessarily slower, just more... I don't know, jagged? Rough around the edges? It's hard to put into words since as you pointed out, it's a minor thing. I'm not the only one who's noticed this though so at least I know I'm not crazy, lol.
What you pointed out regarding DWM's footprint is a nice improvement, but that's really only an issue on lower-end hardware. If you have enough RAM and a powerful video card, this shouldn't be an issue unless you open a crap ton of windows.
Regarding TRIM, yeah I forgot to mention that as an advantage for 7 in my last post, forgive me. But even then, Windows 8.1 triumphs over Windows 7 because 7 doesn't support TRIM for NVME SSDs, whereas 8.1 does. As for using Vista on SSDs, I actually happen to use Windows Vista on a Samsung 840 EVO SSD (and have done so since April 2014, nearly 4 years ago), and I have turned off automatic defragging, disabled search indexing, superfetch, and installed the Samsung Magician software, which provides the TRIM command for Windows XP and Vista for Samsung SSDs: http://prntscr.com/gu5t25
Thanks to Samsung Magician, my SSD's performance has not decreased at all over time and has kept in TRIM. Other SSD manufacturers have also provided tools of this nature, such as Corsair's SSD Toolbox and there are other third party tools available which send TRIM under XP/Vista such as Diskeeper 12 and SSD Tweaker.

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burd    50
1 hour ago, 2008WindowsVista said:

Anything is better than Windows 10, lol.

Yes, the animations are much smoother in Vista compared with 7. The animations in 7 aren't necessarily slower, just more... I don't know, jagged? Rough around the edges? It's hard to put into words since as you pointed out, it's a minor thing. I'm not the only one who's noticed this though so at least I know I'm not crazy, lol.
What you pointed out regarding DWM's footprint is a nice improvement, but that's really only an issue on lower-end hardware. If you have enough RAM and a powerful video card, this shouldn't be an issue unless you open a crap ton of windows.
Regarding TRIM, yeah I forgot to mention that as an advantage for 7 in my last post, forgive me. But even then, Windows 8.1 triumphs over Windows 7 because 7 doesn't support TRIM for NVME SSDs, whereas 8.1 does. As for using Vista on SSDs, I actually happen to use Windows Vista on a Samsung 840 EVO SSD (and have done so since April 2014, nearly 4 years ago), and I have turned off automatic defragging, disabled search indexing, superfetch, and installed the Samsung Magician software, which provides the TRIM command for Windows XP and Vista for Samsung SSDs: http://prntscr.com/gu5t25
Thanks to Samsung Magician, my SSD's performance has not decreased at all over time and has kept in TRIM. Other SSD manufacturers have also provided tools of this nature, such as Corsair's SSD Toolbox and there are other third party tools available which send TRIM under XP/Vista such as Diskeeper 12 and SSD Tweaker.

Wont the systems performance drop with superfetch disabled? Or does this not apply with ssd's

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3 hours ago, burd said:

Wont the systems performance drop with superfetch disabled? Or does this not apply with ssd's

Good question, burd. You see, superfetch preallocates some applications you use most frequently into RAM. This results in faster performance (since RAM can be accessed instantly, whereas on the hard drive the data must be "read" first). With SSDs, superfetch is useless because SSDs are instant and have no moving parts unlike standard HDDs, so it takes almost no time to read the data to launch the application(s) you want to open and ends up being about the same speed as RAM. So it saves memory to turn it off.

In Windows Vista, superfetch was much more aggressive with RAM compared to Windows 7, where superfetch was greatly toned down. Vista's algorithm was just not practical for systems with less than 2 GB of RAM, but on systems with more RAM than that, it was fine (at least until modern applications started to use more RAM... now you'd probably need even more than 2 GB, optimally). 7's algorithm works almost the same, but I suppose it doesn't preallocate as many applications into RAM so it doesn't use as much memory. That's great for low-end hardware but could cause a slight performance decrease coming from Vista on systems with more RAM, if you use several different applications. I doubt it's all that noticeable, though.

Edited by 2008WindowsVista
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98SE    14
On 10/4/2017 at 6:47 PM, 2008WindowsVista said:

Well of course Vista will "work" on Coffee lake, just as it did with Haswell, Skylake, and so on. But the problem is finding proper drivers for Vista to communicate with the hardware. The Asmedia components might work on Vista with the board that you mentioned (AsRock Z370 Tai Chi), but there's another huge problem with Vista when coupled with Haswell (and newer) platforms, which I'm about to go into now:

Vista was very unstable for me when trying to use it on my Haswell hardware (ASUS H97-M board, Core i5 4460). Half the time, the OS wouldn't boot without an error popping up on the screen just before the startup orb animation appears that contained the following information: "The interactive logon process initialization has failed. Please consult the event log for more details." Upon closing the error, sometimes the machine would hang on a black screen or it would boot to a semi-usable desktop. If the latter occurred, many services failed to start and I was forced to reboot the machine to get them to start correctly, provided the machine even decided to boot properly on the next boot attempt (again, maybe 5 out of 10 times the OS would boot properly, but otherwise it would either display the aforementioned error or random services would fail to start, leaving the OS in an unusable state). I even installed Intel's own chipset drivers for XP/Vista for Haswell, and doing so had no effect: the error simply persisted.
Other users of Haswell/Skylake coupled with Vista (such as @11ryanc, @burd, and @dork) had the exact same problems with different Haswell/Skylake boards and CPUs than what I was using, so I know the problem wasn't caused through any fault of my own - Vista just simply doesn't work properly with any Intel platform after Ivy Bridge. I don't know why this is the case (even Windows XP at least successfully boots consistently on Haswell), but the fact of the matter is that it's more than likely to remain unfixed for the foreseeable future. If you're more technically inclined to fix or have the patience to deal with those issues, more power to you. But most people aren't going to have the patience or know-how when it comes to these errors and will simply opt to use Windows 7/8.x/10 instead (which is what I was forced to do until I went with Ivy Bridge). Since this issue has carried on through Haswell/Broadwell, Skylake, and Kaby Lake, it's pretty safe to assume that Coffee Lake will have the same problem. Just know that if you're buying Coffee Lake to run Vista, you're running the risk of either being forced to use Win7+ against your will, having to deal with the mess of problems I just mentioned, or having to return the hardware and just embrace Sandy/Ivy Bridge.

I'll be flabbergasted if this problem somehow doesn't occur with Coffee Lake, but I really don't see that happening. Just don't get too hopeful.

Here's the bad news for Vista on SkyLake.

I did a barrage of around 50+ Reboot tests for SkyLake on Vista Ultimate 64-Bit SP1.

I haven't done any Ivy Bridge tests of this magnitude so I can't confirm if this is just a Haswell+ only issue.  So this could be just a Vista issue.  A better test would be X79 Ivy Bridge to see if happens or is flawless.

Here are the different errors I have seen so far.

 

 

Logon Process Initialization Failure

"The interactive logon process initialization has failed. Please consult the event log for more details."

 

Closing this window allowed it to login to the desktop screen.

 

The other issues are a Windows Defender error "Application failed to initialize: 0x800106ba.  A problem caused this program's service to stop.  To start the service, restart your computer or search Help and Support for how to start a service manually."

 I disabled Windows Defender and never saw this issue again using Programs, Windows Defender and unchecking everything and Reboot.

 

I saw a few versions of the Black Screen with mouse cursor still working.

How to bypass this using "Ctrl+Alt+Del".  Hitting the Enter Key sometimes did something.  My guess is the display output is somehow not showing up properly.

This will trigger another screen where you can Logoff and then Logon again and it should go to the desktop like normal.

 

Another time a Black Screen occurs if you look at your hard drive activity light you can see it's doing something.

After a minute or two it would attempt to go to the desktop.  Now on the desktop you will see this other balloon error at the bottom right corner.

 

! Failed to connect to a windows service

Windows could not connect to the Group Policy Client service

The problem prevents limited users from logging on to the

system

As an administrative user you can review the System Event

Log for details about why the service didn't respond

 

 

At this point you need to reboot the system since you can't access anything in your user account like you normally should.

 

 

These problems experienced can happen and out of the 50+ Reboots but the occurrence is actually rare if you consider most people don't usually reboot non stop and once in the OS they keep it running 24/7 in some cases.

If you're finicky about these rare occurrences it can be enough to consider switching to Windows 7 64-Bit SP1.

Edited by 98SE

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burd    50
35 minutes ago, 98SE said:

Here's the bad news for Vista on SkyLake.

I did a barrage of around 50+ Reboot tests for SkyLake on Vista Ultimate 64-Bit SP1.

I haven't done any Ivy Bridge tests of this magnitude so I can't confirm if this is just a Haswell+ only issue.  So this could be just a Vista issue.  A better test would be X79 Ivy Bridge to see if happens or is flawless.

Here are the different errors I have seen so far.

 

 

Logon Process Initialization Failure

"The interactive logon process initialization has failed. Please consult the event log for more details."

 

Closing this window allowed it to login to the desktop screen.

 

The other issues are a Windows Defender error "Application failed to initialize: 0x800106ba.  A problem caused this program's service to stop.  To start the service, restart your computer or search Help and Support for how to start a service manually."

 I disabled Windows Defender and never saw this issue again using Programs, Windows Defender and unchecking everything and Reboot.

 

I saw a few versions of the Black Screen with mouse cursor still working.

How to bypass this using "Ctrl+Alt+Del".  Hitting the Enter Key sometimes did something.  My guess is the display output is somehow not showing up properly.

This will trigger another screen where you can Logoff and then Logon again and it should go to the desktop like normal.

 

Another time a Black Screen occurs if you look at your hard drive activity light you can see it's doing something.

After a minute or two it would attempt to go to the desktop.  Now on the desktop you will see this other balloon error at the bottom right corner.

 

! Failed to connect to a windows service

Windows could not connect to the Group Policy Client service

The problem prevents limited users from logging on to the

system

As an administrative user you can review the System Event

Log for details about why the service didn't respond

 

 

At this point you need to reboot the system since you can't access anything in your user account like you normally should.

 

 

These problems experienced can happen and out of the 50+ Reboots but the occurrence is actually rare if you consider most people don't usually reboot non stop and once in the OS they keep it running 24/7 in some cases.

If you're finicky about these rare occurrences it can be enough to consider switching to Windows 7 64-Bit SP1.

The Thing About the black screen is, the explorer.exe process hangs or doesnt start, you can have to create a new process and type "explorer" it should fix it or you can just wait for the process to start up incase the process is on if not then manually start it by making a new task, the windows defender problem is also a random one, it will work sometimes, there is another problem the audio functions dont startup along with windows so you have to manually start them from the audio logo itself or from "services.msc"

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98SE    14
1 hour ago, burd said:

The Thing About the black screen is, the explorer.exe process hangs or doesnt start, you can have to create a new process and type "explorer" it should fix it or you can just wait for the process to start up incase the process is on if not then manually start it by making a new task, the windows defender problem is also a random one, it will work sometimes, there is another problem the audio functions dont startup along with windows so you have to manually start them from the audio logo itself or from "services.msc"

In the Event Viewer Log it seems to have errors pointing to DCOM.  I'm not sure if this could be the cause of all the login related problems as I am kind of spent on Vista.

https://www.grc.com/freeware/dcom.htm

If you disable the service with this program and see if this fixes the problem.

https://www.grc.com/files/DCOMbob.exe

 

Edited by 98SE

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burd    50
12 minutes ago, 98SE said:

In the Event Viewer Log it seems to have errors pointing to DCOM.  I'm not sure if this could be the cause of all the login related problems as I am kind of spent on Vista.

https://www.grc.com/freeware/dcom.htm

If you disable the service with this program and see if this fixes the problem.

https://www.grc.com/files/DCOMbob.exe

 

Will try this in a bit and see what happens.

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burd    50
9 hours ago, 98SE said:

In the Event Viewer Log it seems to have errors pointing to DCOM.  I'm not sure if this could be the cause of all the login related problems as I am kind of spent on Vista.

https://www.grc.com/freeware/dcom.htm

If you disable the service with this program and see if this fixes the problem.

https://www.grc.com/files/DCOMbob.exe

 

Errors still coming and Black Screen Still Appearing after disabling....

I normally wouldnt get it frequently but ive done a fresh install so its happening :(

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98SE    14
On 10/16/2017 at 1:50 PM, burd said:

Errors still coming and Black Screen Still Appearing after disabling....

I normally wouldnt get it frequently but ive done a fresh install so its happening :(

Check your Event Log Viewer.  A clue might be in there as to what's causing it.

Did you check your Services to see if the DCOM was still showing as enabled or Automatic startup? or Disabled and stopped?

When I get more time to test Windows 7 64-Bit to see if this login problem happens on SL.

 

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burd    50
2 hours ago, 98SE said:

Check your Event Log Viewer.  A clue might be in there as to what's causing it.

Did you check your Services to see if the DCOM was still showing as enabled or Automatic startup? or Disabled and stopped?

When I get more time to test Windows 7 64-Bit to see if this login problem happens on SL.

 

Didnt check because i presumed the program would do the job, will check the next time i boot up vista

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