[Eck]

And that $20 Upgrade cd isn't worthless if you've got 98 Gold installed first. It upgrades you to a normal 98SE. That was its purpose, not to install fresh on a blank HD. That's why it was $20, not $99 like the regular upgrade cd. It is a full 98SE cd disc with just the setup from dos disabled.

[bizzybody]

The cheap 98SE Update CD Microsoft used to sell would also upgrade Windows 95 to 98SE. That's why MS quit selling it so quickly, they didn't think to put in a version check to make it work only on 98 original.

[UltWing]

In reply to Krick, that was what I had planned too. I've already ordered a computer w/ 120GB as the first drive then 160GB. I'm just wondering if there are going to be issues with the drives being SATA.

[iWindoze]

MDGx, on Jun 13 2005, 06:00 PM, said:

iWindoze, on Jun 13 2005, 12:10 AM, said:

I my copy of SE is an upgrade
(full retail) version...not the MS Upgrade cd that Axcel216 talks about
on his site which was more or less worthless due to a crippled no dos
setup routine.

Could you elaborate what exactly you read at my site, eventually with a small quote and/or URL, please?
Thanks.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.mdgx.com/98-4.htm#C98SEUI

"As you know the Win98 Second Edition (SE) Upgrade (NOT Updates, a.k.a. SEU) has the DOS Setup disabled by default, meaning you can't do a clean install from a newly formatted hard disk. ....."

Did I misunderstand something you said?

--iWindoze

[MDGx]

iWindoze, on Jun 22 2005, 09:31 AM, said:

MDGx, on Jun 13 2005, 06:00 PM, said:

iWindoze, on Jun 13 2005, 12:10 AM, said:

I my copy of SE is an upgrade
(full retail) version...not the MS Upgrade cd that Axcel216 talks about
on his site which was more or less worthless due to a crippled no dos
setup routine.

Could you elaborate what exactly you read at my site, eventually with a small quote and/or URL, please?
Thanks.

http://www.mdgx.com/98-4.htm#C98SEUI

"As you know the Win98 Second Edition (SE) Upgrade (NOT Updates, a.k.a. SEU) has the DOS Setup disabled by default, meaning you can't do a clean install from a newly formatted hard disk. ....."

Did I misunderstand something you said?

--iWindoze

This is a tip I've posted a long time ago, as sent by this guy [Michael] on how to work around the 98SE Upgrade CD DOS setup limitation.
I don't have a 98SE Upgrade CD, so I can't test this.
But if u know different, and if native MS-DOS based setup works from 98SE Upgrade CD to perform a clean install on an empty HD [eventually with explanation guide on how to do this step by step, because officially this is not possible as far as I know], I'll correct the tip, and add your guide to it.

Thanks.

[Eck]

I don't think he has that. That's why he used his full upgrade cd, as he said.

Interesting though. I thought I had read somewhere long ago some instructions that worked around the dos restriction by copying the installation folder to the HD and then changing something. Unfortunately I don't remember what! But there was a guide. I remember seeing it. I didn't think I'd ever make use of it that way so I didn't print it out. I just noticed it with vague, fleeting interest.

That cd did have some quirks. It would mess up when copying the Windows\Media folder and some of the Windows sounds would be the incorrect files. Heh, the recycle bin sound in the Utopia theme would by used for several things like menu popups, etc. I always needed to uninstall the sounds and reinstall them from add/remove, Windows components, Multimedia. It also would install Briefcase and wouldn't put it in the list of Windows components so I'd be able to uninstall it. I would just delete the thing from the desktop, then a registry clean would further interfere by deleting the send to shortcut for it. So then I couldn't use it if I wanted to! Not that I would. I've never owned a Laptop. I wonder what else is buggy? Stuff seemed to work like a normal 98SE, but if it messed up that stuff I wonder what I wasn't aware of.

[MDGx]

I assume you are reffering to these setuppp.inf tweaks:
http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=45373...ndpost&p=343155

[krick]

UltWing, on Jun 19 2005, 08:47 PM, said:

In reply to Krick, that was what I had planned too. I've already ordered a computer w/ 120GB as the first drive then 160GB. I'm just wondering if there are going to be issues with the drives being SATA.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not positive but I think SATA *might* be a problem for the boot drive as SATA didn't even exist when 98SE came out.

Windows 2K and XP have a step during the installation setup where you can insert a floppy with SATA/RAID/SCSI etc.. drivers if necessary. Windows 98SE doesn't.

I'd give it a try first to see what happens. If it doesn't work, you could always get an SATA to EIDE adapter...

Addonics ADSAIDE SATA-IDE/ATAPI converter

Who knows, after you have it all installed including the SATA drivers, maybe you'll be able to remove the adapter and plug it back into the SATA connector.

[Eck]

If your Bios has the Sata Boot built in which is the case with most recent motherboards then, in my experience, Windows 98SE installs but has the system setup in Ms-Dos Compatibility Mode.

On my system I installed the Via Hyperion 4-in-1's, rebooted, installed the Via Sata driver, rebooted, then installed the Via USB 2.0 drivers and rebooted. Make sure you use the 4-in-1 set at ViaArena and not the newer Hyperion Pro, as 98SE needs the IDE driver left out of the Hyperion Pro since Windows XP doesn't need it.

When all was done Windows 98SE had everything properly installed in Device Manager and was in your normal optimal mode of operation.

Now, if your board doesn't have the Sata Bios built in so you need a seperate Sata controller, then this most likely won't work. In that case you could install Windows 98SE with a normal IDE hard drive and later install the Sata controller and use the Sata drive as a second hard drive. Make sure you have a reletively powerful power supply for this as modern videocards eat up a lot of power that makes weak power supplies balk at adding additional hard drives.

Hopefully your board supports Sata built in so you can just hook things up, install Windows and the drivers, and everything will just work.

Edit - The newer Via Hyperion Pro now has the needed 98SE IDE drivers. I guess they put that back in because lots of folks don't read the information and wondered why their systems didn't work.

So the latest Hyperion Pro's are now fine for 98SE.

This post has been edited by Eck: 28 October 2005 - 10:49 AM

[bristols]

Here is an installation order I've put together. I've been trying to keep up with developments on these boards regarding the latest version and build numbers for all available Windows 98 SE files. Therefore, some of the builds of certain files here are later than those included in Gape's SE SP 2.1a.

I'd be grateful if anyone could have a look at the following installation order and leave comments or criticisms of any kind. Any mistakes, omissions or superfluous installations are likely to be quite obvious to many of you, but I don't mind! Point them out anyway, please.

Note: This installation uses Win98 SE SP 2.1a (Gape's current Service Pack), so ignore the version number in this thread's title. It is quite a full installation. It includes the SAPI 4 and 5.1 speech add-ons, for example. I may not install everything here, but I've included those parts of the installation for future reference.

Basic Installation

1. Win98SE
2. DirectX 9.0c
3. Drivers: motherboard (Via Hyperion Pro 4-in-1), monitor (Viewsonic), graphics card (NVIDIA), audio (Realtek ALC655), mouse (Logitech) VIA USB 2.0 and modem (Intel)

IE6 SP1 and updates

4. IE6 SP1
5. Microsoft Installer v.2.0
6. 885258 - Incorrectly-scaled images fix
7. IEAK IE6WZD fix
8. Maximus-Decim's Data Access Component Update 1.0 beta 6
which includes:
- MDAC 2.8 SP1 (includes MSXML 3.0 SP7)
- Jet 4.0 SP8 (837001)
- Jet 4.0 Repl (321076)
- MSXML 4.0 SP2 + 887606
- 2 files Jet 3.5 SP3 (msjet35.dll, msrepl35.dll)
- 2 files MDAC 2.5 SP3 (vfpodbc.dll, drvvft.chm - Visual FoxPro Driver)
- XMLinst 3.0
- 3 files IE6 SP1 + 832414 (msxml.dll, msxmld.dll, msxmlr.dll - MSXML 2.5 SP3)
- MSXML 2.6 SP2 + 887606
9. 823353 - Outlook Express Cumulative Update
10. 870669 - ADODB.Stream fix [requires MDAC v.2.5 or above's prior installation]
11. 833989 - GDI buffer overun fix
12. 887797 - Outlook Express Cumulative Update [requires 823353's prior installation]
13. Root Certificates Update - rootsupd.exe
14. QFEInstalled reg. tweak
15. Hhupd.exe - Unofficial Help Update 1.41 (or official equivalent - 896358)
16. 905915 - IE6 SP1 Cumulative Update [replaces 903235 & 896727 & 896688; requires Help Update's prior installation]
17. MSXML 3.0 SP7/MSXML 4.0 SP2/887606 - ? [905915 requires this to be installed AFTER its own installation - ?]
18. 98TSHOOT.EXE - or an equivalent Troubleshooter fix [905915 requires this to be installed AFTER its own installation]
19. SHDOCFIX - ?

Java

20. MS Java 3809
21. MS Java 3810
22. Sun Java 1.5.0.6 (current version)

Windows Media Player 9

23. WMP 9
24. 891122 - WMP 10 Codecs for WMP 9
25. MP892313 - Unofficial WMP9 update
26. MP832353 - Unofficial WMP9 update
27. 817885 - WMP 9 patch
28. WMV9VCM - WMP 9 Video Compression Manager
29. WMBonusXP - WMP 9 Bonus Pack

'Add-ons'

30. .NET Framework 1.1
31. .NET Framework 1.1 SP1
32. .NET Framework 2
33. SQLXML 3.0 SP3 [requires .NET Framework's prior installation]
34. GDIPlus [build 5.1.3102.1360]
35. SAPI Speech 4
36. SAPI Speech 5.1
37. 904706 - DirectX 9.0c Update

38. 98SE Unofficial SP 2.1a

Other Optional and/or Unofficial Updates

39. ASPI 4.71a
40. DXM9X.EXE - Unofficial DirectX update
41. DXTXTRA.EXE - Unofficial DirectX update [requires .NET Framework's prior installation]
42. 249824 - Unofficial Devices Additions & Removals Error VOLTRACK.VXD fix [build 4.10.1999]
43. TTFPAK.EXE - Unofficial True Type Font Pack
44. RICHED9X.EXE - [updates SE SP 2.1a RICHED20.DLL build 5.30.23.1221 to 5.31.23.1224]
46. 269388 - [updates SE SP 2.1a vip.386 build 4.10.2226 to 4.10.2227]
47. OLEUPD.EXE - Unofficial OLE Update [updates SE SP 2.1a asycfilt.dll build 2.40.4522 to 2.40.4526, Olepro32.dll build 5.0.4522 to 5.0.4526, and Stdole2.tlb build 2.40.4522 to 2.40.4526 - see also OLEUPD2.EXE]

Modifications

48. MDGx's 98SE2ME (including options requiring ME disk)
49. Reinstall Maximus-Decim's DAC - [reinstallation necessary prior to Maximus-Decim's Native USB?]
50. nusb22e.exe - Maximus-Decim's Native USB 2.2
51. nusb221e - Maximus-Decim's Native USB 2.2e Update

QUESTION:

Do some of the items following IE6 SP1 require Visual Basic 6 and/or Windows Scripting Engines v.5.6 (build 5.6.0.8825) to be installed PRIOR to their own installation?

ANOTHER QUESTION:

Quote

10. 870669 - ADODB.Stream fix [requires MDAC v.2.5 or above's prior installation].

So:

i) 870669 needs MDAC installed PRIOR to it being installed (I'm using the latest one, 2.8 SP1).
ii) MDAC 2.8 SP1 includes MSXML 3.0 SP7 as part of its install.

Ok, fine. But:

iii) further down the list at #16, 905915 - the latest IE6 SP1 Cumulative Update - requires MSXML 3.0 SP7 to be installed after its own installation.

As you can see, it would have been installed already, before 905915.

So, is this a problem? Would I simply reinstall MDAC2.8 SP1 (or more specifically, the MSXML 3.0 SP7 part of it) after 905915? Is it as simple as that? Or will the fact that MSXML 3.0 SP7 was already installed mean that 905915 will not install properly?

This sort of question about the consequences of installation order seems to come up often for me, and I'm often unsure about what the best course of action. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks for looking.

This post has been edited by bristols: 15 December 2005 - 10:23 AM