[midiboy]

Hi !

I have not found any mention of this on the forum yet. Has anyone noticed that Benjamin seemingly decided to discontinue work on Wihu ?



I just read about this on his homepage.

What a pity ! While I understand that Benjamin should probably direct more of his time to his studies I don´t think that completely discontinuing Wihu should be the only solution.

Maybe it could be at least possible to update version 2.1.x from time to time, fix bugs etc. instead of completely abandoning Wihu or make a complete rewrite.

Quote

Second reason is, there are really many tools like this now, just take a look at MSFN forum.

Mhh, actually the only tool I found during a quick look on MSFN that seems to do a similar thing as Wihu is Xplode. However, this tool seems EXTREMELY complicated to use/setup from my point of view, not only because it relies on XML. Other than that, I could not find a similar thing to Wihu anywhere.

Quote

I don't find any motivation to recreate my tool since most users seems don't to use it.

I can´t talk about other people here obviously, but I use Wihu regularily. Actually I wouldn´t even know what to do with my precious unattended installation DVD without Wihu ! Just so you know how important Wihu is to some of us ....

A small request at the end ...

Could you maybe fix this bug in the current version that prevents the desktop symbols/other files to be copied over from the default user\Desktop folder to the Desktop folder of a newly created user if the Desktop location is moved from the original location to any other location like D:\Desktop ?

You said you would fix this in the upcoming rewrite but seemingly this won´t happen so ...

Anyway, even if you are really discontinuing Wihu ... thanks for your work over the last months and good luck for your studies (at least finish quickly and THEN sell a new Wihu to us )

Bye,
Alex

[XPect]

Bad news !

Any chance to come back on your decision ?

Anyway thanks for your work.

XPect

[BenjaminKalytta]

As I promised on my web page, I'll fix critical bugs also in future. And also, midiboy I'll add your format feature as I promised one time.
Please could you describe the shell folder bug again?

Benjamin Kalytta

[midiboy]

Hi Benjamin,

hello and thanks for still adding the format feature

The shell folder bug:

in the current last version, everything works fine if you leave the location of the Windows Desktop at the default position in C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\NewUser\Desktop. All the content of C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\DEFAULT USER\Desktop is copied over to the new users Desktop.

However, if you choose to move the location of the Windows Desktop to any other place in Wihu (during creation of a new user), lets say to D:\Alexander\Desktop, then nothings gets copied to the new Desktop folder on D:\Alexander\Desktop although Wihu properly created that folder.

Thanks for your help,
Bye,
Alex

[BenjaminKalytta]

Hmm, no I think there was another problem. Doing as described by you above is currently possible in WIHU. May be I fixed this some weeks ago when I fixed another shell folder specific bug.

[midiboy]

Benjamin,

sorry to say that but you must be wrong ...

I just checked this. I am using the latest version ( I think) of Wihu: It is 2.1.17.1

I have quite a few lnk files in C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Default User\Desktop.
Those files should normally be copied over to the Desktop of a new user.

I created a new user in Wihu named Bernd. I set Windows Desktop to D:\%ThisUser%\Desktop in Wihu.

I then logged on as that user and the Desktop was empty.

Sorry ...

Bye,
Alex

[BenjaminKalytta]

So I added format feature, I also fixed the bug, please could you verify if it works as expected?
Please note: WIHU isn't able to create partitions, or to detect unmounted volumes. Only unformated mounted volumes can be formated.
Wie du siehst scheint es wirklich niemanden zu interessieren, also so wie ich es angenommen hatte;) Hier war ja auch eh nichts mehr los im Forum.

Benjamin Kalytta

[midiboy]

Hi Benjamin,

many thanks for fixing this bug. I just tested it. Works fine now, thank you very much !

As for the format feature ... wow ... that was quick ! I thought that would take longer ..



Can you quickly describe how it works ? I guess it works "automatically" if user shell folders are set to D:\ for instance, and Wihu tries to create them there and the volume is not formatted yet, it will pop up a message and ask for format parameters ... at least thats what I could think of.

Quote

Wie du siehst scheint es wirklich niemanden zu interessieren, also so wie ich es angenommen hatte;) Hier war ja auch eh nichts mehr los im Forum.

´

Verstehe ich ehrlich gesagt nicht ganz. Wo sind die Leute alle hin ? Was benutzen die jetzt ? Xplode scheint das einzige "Konkurrenzprodukt" zu Wihu zu sein (zumindest hab ich nichts anderes gefunnden) und das hab ich nicht ganz durchschaut ...

Ich find´s schade. Wihu ist echt cool und funktioniert wirklich zuverlässig. Das einzige "mühsame" ist das neunummerieren von Einträgen in der Installationsliste wenn man mal wo was einfügen will, aber das stört mich persönlich ned so wahnsinnig. Die Leute da draussen sind wohl alle xml freaks, obwohl ich persönlich xml noch ned wirklich durchschaut hab, naja ... bin ja auch kein Programmierer.

Danke jedenfalls nochmal für deine hilfe und Arbeit über die letzten Monate ! Ich hoffe ich werde dich bezüglich bugs nicht allzu oft quälen müssen !



Bye,
Alex

[BenjaminKalytta]

Quote

Can you quickly describe how it works ? I guess it works "automatically" if user shell folders are set to D:\ for instance, and Wihu tries to create them there and the volume is not formatted yet, it will pop up a message and ask for format parameters ... at least thats what I could think of.

These are test images:



Yes, if WIHU detects an unformated mounted drive, it first asks if the user want to format. (MessageBox will close in 10 seconds in /AutoInstall mode btw.)

Quote

As for the format feature ... wow ... that was quick ! I thought that would take longer ..

It's for a long time now already finished and integrated in WIHU but it was not activated.

Quote

Xplode scheint das einzige "Konkurrenzprodukt" zu Wihu zu sein (zumindest hab ich nichts anderes gefunnden) und das hab ich nicht ganz durchschaut ...

Naja, da gibt es noch WPI, auch wenn ich es persönlich etwas kitschig finde und es auch nicht allzugroße Funktionalität hat. Was halt dort vorhanden ist, ist glaube ich die Möglichkeit direkt auch über das Tool neue Dateien usw. einzubinden, d.h. man muss sich nicht durch eine INI Datei wühlen. Ich hatte ja eigentlich auch vorgehabt so ein INI Erstellungstool zu erstellen was die Sache erheblich vereinfacht hätte.

Benjamin Kalytta

[midiboy]

Hi Benjamin,

vielleicht bringt das "format feature" ja wieder paar user zurück zu Wihu

Ich habs gerade in einer virtuellen Maschine ausprobiert. Funktioniert super ! Du bist echt genial !!!

Eine kleine Verbesserungsmöglichkeit gäbs da aber noch ...

Es sollte aus dem Formatierungsdialog heraus möglich sein zurück zur Userinstallation in Wihu zu gelangen. Es könnte ja zb. sein, daß man vergessen hat die Shellfolder zu ändern oder zb. während des Formatierungsdialogs draufkommt daß das Laufwerk zb. mit einem Linuxformat formatiert wurde etc.

Wäre das schwierig, das noch einzubauen, das die Installation sozusagen abgebrochen wird und man nochmal zurück gelangen kann ?

Wenn ja, vergiss es. Wenn nein, wärs schon cool !

Und eine kleine Frage noch: Es kann garantiert nicht passieren, dass Wihu ein formatiertes Laufwerk als unformatiert erkennt oder ? Nicht, daß da mal was passiert ...

Thanks,
Alex

PS:

SORRY guys for writing all this in German, I only realized this half way through and was too lazy to write everything again ...

[BenjaminKalytta]

Quote

Es sollte aus dem Formatierungsdialog heraus möglich sein zurück zur Userinstallation in Wihu zu gelangen. Es könnte ja zb. sein, daß man vergessen hat die Shellfolder zu ändern oder zb. während des Formatierungsdialogs draufkommt daß das Laufwerk zb. mit einem Linuxformat formatiert wurde etc.

Wäre das schwierig, das noch einzubauen, das die Installation sozusagen abgebrochen wird und man nochmal zurück gelangen kann ?

Ist machbar, müsste das allerdings dann vor der eigentlichen Abarbeitung prüfen, könnte kompliziert werden. Werde mir mal überlegen ob sich es lohnt das zu ändern.

Quote

Es kann garantiert nicht passieren, dass Wihu ein formatiertes Laufwerk als unformatiert erkennt oder ? Nicht, daß da mal was passiert ...

Quote

It's not possible that WIHU will detect an formated drive as unformated?

No that's not possible as long Windows will detect the drive as formated with known filesystem. Linux drives for example will be detected as unformated! Also broken drives (after big system crash for example) may be deteced as unformated. However in later case your aren't able to access this drive in windows anymore.

Benjamin Kalytta

[Maelstorm]

midiboy, on Apr 3 2005, 02:15 PM, said:

Hi !

I have not found any mention of this on the forum yet. Has anyone noticed that Benjamin seemingly decided to discontinue work on Wihu ?

Nope. This was the first time that I have heard of it.

Quote

I just read about this on his homepage.

What a pity ! While I understand that Benjamin should probably direct more of his time to his studies I don´t think that completely discontinuing Wihu should be the only solution.

Well, the source code is available. Maybe some enterprising individual could take up the cause and run with it.

Quote

Quote

Second reason is, there are really many tools like this now, just take a look at MSFN forum.

Mhh, actually the only tool I found during a quick look on MSFN that seems to do a similar thing as Wihu is Xplode. However, this tool seems EXTREMELY complicated to use/setup from my point of view, not only because it relies on XML. Other than that, I could not find a similar thing to Wihu anywhere.

Quote

I don't find any motivation to recreate my tool since most users seems don't to use it.

I can´t talk about other people here obviously, but I use Wihu regularily. Actually I wouldn´t even know what to do with my precious unattended installation DVD without Wihu ! Just so you know how important Wihu is to some of us ....

I actually use both WIHU and XPlode. The select install of XPlode is clunky at best. So what I do is select the options with WIHU and use XPlode to install them.

A note to Benjamin:
There are only 3 programs that allow unattended installs, that I know of. WPI, WIHU, and XPlode. WPI does what I want in the wrong way and there is a somewhat steep learning curve with XPlode. Don't think that because people don't post a whole lot doesn't mean that they don't use it. For what it's worth, I use it. It is a good tool.

Hmm... Now that I have VS2K3, I might try a couple of things with the source code...

[midiboy]

Quote

Ist machbar, müsste das allerdings dann vor der eigentlichen Abarbeitung prüfen, könnte kompliziert werden. Werde mir mal überlegen ob sich es lohnt das zu ändern.

Hi Benjamin,

ich will dich nicht wieder vom Studium ablenken, wie gesagt, wenn es leicht geht wärs echt super, ansonsten lass es. Danke auf jeden Fall !

Quote

There are only 3 programs that allow unattended installs, that I know of. WPI, WIHU, and XPlode. WPI does what I want in the wrong way and there is a somewhat steep learning curve with XPlode.  For what it's worth, I use it. It is a good tool.

I agree. There are NOT many options. I did not look at WPI yet but I did have a look at Xplode and I have no idea how to use that tool. That may be because I could not for the life of it find any sort of beginners guide ... it certainly looked intimidating enough for me to forget about it.

Quote

Don't think that because people don't post a whole lot doesn't mean that they don't use it.

Agreed. It could also mean that people use it and have no problems with it ! Which is a good thing ...

Quote

Well, the source code is available. Maybe some enterprising individual could take up the cause and run with it.

Yeah, Wihu is certainly worth it !

Bye,
Alex

[gmx]

Quote

Don't think that because people don't post a whole lot doesn't mean that they don't use it.

Agreed. It could also mean that people use it and have no problems with it ! Which is a good thing ...

second that...

please dont discontinue it

[Maelstorm]

gmx, on Apr 5 2005, 04:09 AM, said:

Quote

Don't think that because people don't post a whole lot doesn't mean that they don't use it.

Agreed. It could also mean that people use it and have no problems with it ! Which is a good thing ...

second that...

please dont discontinue it
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which was the point that I was making.

[tjhart85]

I love your program Benjamin. I have tried WPI, XPLODE, Ktool, W.A.I.T, and others, WIHU is the ONLY one that works properly and the way I want it to.

I really hope you decide to change your mind. Not only is your program the best, you are a great devoloper, and even others using your source code, WIHU will never be the same.

[BenjaminKalytta]

Quote

ich will dich nicht wieder vom Studium ablenken, wie gesagt, wenn es leicht geht wärs echt super, ansonsten lass es. Danke auf jeden Fall !

Kann dieses Semester leider eh keine Prüfungen mitschreiben weil ich nun mein Vordiplom nicht habe was laut Studienordnung in meiner FH dann nicht möglich ist. Werde da also noch etwas machen, auch wenn vielleicht in einer anderen Form.

So eveyone, what should I do now?
Fact is, Im not able to continue my work as fast as in past which means, it would take long time until new features will be added in future.

Quote

Don't think that because people don't post a whole lot doesn't mean that they don't use it.

Hmm, of course it doesn't necessarily mean this, but it is an indication.

I think more people would use WIHU if there were an WIHU Ini file creation tool for easy manipulating the ini file. But currently there is no time to create this.

Quote

So what I do is select the options with WIHU and use XPlode to install them.

Hmm, does it mean, installation done by XPlode is better than WIHU installation routine? If yes, what do you miss in WIHU?

Quote

Hmm... Now that I have VS2K3, I might try a couple of things with the source code...

Believe me, changing anything in my code is more difficult from day to day;)

Benjamin Kalytta

[midiboy]

Hi !

First of all ... maybe Benjamin would be more inclined to continue development of Wihu if all of you guys actually using his tool on a regular basis would make a little donation. I still can´t believe that I am the only one who did that so far. I just feel that if I am relying on a tool that someone created using lots and lots of time and effort he should at least be able to get a few beer for free or go to the movies ...

I am using Wihu more often than MS Office and there are more alternatives to Office than there are for Wihu so my decision on that one was clear from the beginning.

Benjamin never asked for money but I am sure he would be a little bit more motivated if people would appreciate his work in a more material way so to say ...

Quote

So eveyone, what should I do now?

Well, first you have to make a decision for yourself I think. Your main argument for stopping development was lack of time because of your studies. If that is indeed the main reason behind your decision, nobody will be able to convince you otherwise.

You would simply have to know if you can either continue your studies more slowly while continuing developing Wihu on the side or if you need to spend all your time on studying.

If, on the other hand, your main reason for stopping Wihu was the lack of response and feedback from your userbase, THEN it might be a good idea to continue developing Wihu (even if that means less updates and slower response) because in my opinion, it IS the best tool for the job, even if the ini creation process is not the best yet.

Quote

I think more people would use WIHU if there were an WIHU Ini file creation tool for easy manipulating the ini file. But currently there is no time to create this.

Maybe the ini creation tool could come from someone else ?

Also ... I have no idea how much of a problem the status of your code is right now. You once said that it is impossible to manage by now and you need to start again. If that is indeed the case and progress is impossible with the current version you might consider working on 3.0 when you have free time. I am sure no one here will be angry if it takes a few months but it would be a pity if you stopped development completely just because you THINK no one uses Wihu anyway.

Maybe the ini creation tool is indeed more important than Wihu 3.0 though to get more people to use it.

Quote

Kann dieses Semester leider eh keine Prüfungen mitschreiben weil ich nun mein Vordiplom nicht habe was laut Studienordnung in meiner FH dann nicht möglich ist. Werde da also noch etwas machen, auch wenn vielleicht in einer anderen Form.

Dann hast ja jetzt eh Zeit

Ciao,
Alex

[KoppieKoffie]

.....What Can I say?

WIHU is a standard on all my UA cd's and a big hit with everyone who never heard of setup.exe (dad, uncles etc.).

Besides the ini file, which is just a bit more work but very straightforward, the rest is ' id*** proof' and that's the whole purpose of this tool right?

My apologies for not complaining about the tool on a regular basis

CupOfCoffee

[Maelstorm]

BenjaminKalytta, on Apr 6 2005, 04:33 AM, said:

So eveyone, what should I do now?
Fact is, Im not able to continue my work as fast as in past which means, it would take long time until new features will be added in future.

It's not a problem. As a software developer myself, I do understand that it is very time consuming. Your studies should take precedence though, and I will not try to convince you otherwise. But, if you need help writing the code due to your personal situation, I can personally lend you a hand, but I don't understand Windows programming all that well myself. I understand C, but not C on Windows because most of my software programming experience in C is on the Unix platform. I am learning though. Also, my plate is also a little full right now too.

Quote

Quote

Don't think that because people don't post a whole lot doesn't mean that they don't use it.

Hmm, of course it doesn't necessarily mean this, but it is an indication.

I think more people would use WIHU if there were an WIHU Ini file creation tool for easy manipulating the ini file. But currently there is no time to create this.

Once again, this is quite understandable. But another poster mentioned this before, but maybe the reason that you do not hear alot about your tool is probably because people don't have problems with it...which is a good thing. I can only speak for myself, but I only speak up if I want a new feature, find a bug, or have some other problem with it.

midiboy, on Apr 6 2005, 07:16 AM, said:

Maybe the ini creation tool could come from someone else ?

Maybe the ini creation tool is indeed more important than Wihu 3.0 though to get more people to use it.

I agree, but it cannot be done in VBScript unless you use a prepared source file so that the script can convert it over to the ini format. I did something similar with my XPlode XML code generator, which I'm still working on, but the ini file format presents some odd programming problems. Any ini creation tool would make it easier to use WIHU, but the tool itself would need to be easy to use.

I just thought of something...Taking a page from WPI, why not have the creation tool embedded inside WIHU? There you could just highlight an item, right click to edit, and have a dialog box popup...Or add new sub-tree, etc..., etc.., etc...

Quote

Quote

So what I do is select the options with WIHU and use XPlode to install them.

Hmm, does it mean, installation done by XPlode is better than WIHU installation routine? If yes, what do you miss in WIHU?

The main thing that XPlode has going for it is that it is more visually appealing than WIHU. But, for user interface ease of use, WIHU beats XPlode. I'm sorry, but XPlode's UI for the select install is...lacking, IMO. On my setup, because XPlode does not support conditionals on an unattended install, I use WIHU to call a script file with an index. From there, it automatically generates the needed data file and converts them to XML format for installation under XPlode during the RunOnceEX installation at first login (I call it Phase 3). WIHU runs at the T-12 portion of the setup (I call it Phase 2) and all the needed files get built at that time.

Quote

Quote

Hmm... Now that I have VS2K3, I might try a couple of things with the source code...

Believe me, changing anything in my code is more difficult from day to day;)

Benjamin Kalytta
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to discount your programming abilities, and I'm not trying to be rude or insulting, but I do have some constructive critisim about your source code. The one glaring problem that I have with it is the fact that there are almost no comments in the code. For someone like me who is new to Windows programming, that would be a big help in following the logic of the program.

midiboy, on Apr 6 2005, 07:16 AM, said:

Hi !

Hello.

Quote

First of all ... maybe Benjamin would be more inclined to continue development of Wihu if all of you guys actually using his tool on a regular basis would make a little donation. I still can´t believe that I am the only one who did that so far. I just feel that if I am relying on a tool that someone created using lots and lots of time and effort he should at least be able to get a  few beer for free or go to the movies ...

That brings up a good point, but how? There is no way to specify a donation that I could see. Futhermore, I would buy him a few beers or take him out to a movie or two, but I'm in the United States. So right now the only thing that I can offer is to help work on the software.


Benjamin:
And I have a really good idea about the software architecture of WIHU... I noticed in your source code that you are using monilithing programming practices. Why not use objects? This type of application would be much easier to implement I think. I'll email my ideas to you.