98SE2ME = Killer Replacements: ME -> 98 SE

[MDGx]

Hi MDGx/PsycoUnc,

I've had similar questions myself about 98SE2ME.

No matter which updates/SPs/patches/fixes/upgrades/replacements/etc you have installed, Win98 SE OS still remains Win98 SE OS. Therefore you can only install Win98 SE updates/patches/fixes/SPs/etc.

Please see READ1ST.TXT for more info [the "FAQ" section]:

READ1ST.TXT

* Win98 SE OS build/edition/release/revision/version does NOT change no matter

which NOR how many (hot)fixes/patches/updates/service packs/etc you install,

including 98SE2ME, Gape's Service Pack 2 (SP2), Maximus-Decim's Cumulative

Update, Maximus-Decim's Native USB and even Tihiy's Revolutions Packs.

Therefore when installing MS Windows Updates:

http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/

and/or MS (security) patches or (hot)fixes:

http://www.mdgx.com/web.htm#98SE

http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm

http://www.mdgx.com/ietoy.htm

http://www.mdgx.com/wmp.htm

http://www.mdgx.com/dx.htm

you will be able, just as before, to install ONLY system files created

specifically for Win98 SE, and MOST ALL OTHERS (except certain hardware

drivers designed for all Windows 95/98/ME releases) will probably be rejected.

So this means that:

1. The ME updates that you periodically post MDGx in the New 98 FE + 98 SE + ME patches thread are of no use to those who have installed 98SE2ME, even when an updated ME file introduced into 98SE by 98SE2ME is included in a ME update posted to the above thread?

2. Sometimes newer 98SE updates, which include files that surpass the functionality of a ME file introduced to a 98SE system by 98SE2ME, should be installed on such systems to replace an older (but of course, with a later build number) ME file?

3. If 'yes' to 2., a person would have to have some detailed knowledge about the functionality of the files in question, in order to decide whether or not the newer 98SE file should replace the older (but with a later build number) ME file?

-Or do you update your 98se2me project every time an appropriate update is posted/released, thereby showing us whether or not we need to apply the specific update ourselves and which version to apply?

I had assumed that this was the case. I think it is. So for example, the latest 98SE2ME release contains the unofficial GDI32 WMF fix for ME. That's generally right, isn't it?

Hah, sorry to be finicky/blind to any explanations provided so far.

Right.

Win98 SE no matter which updates/patches/SPs/(hot)fixes/replacements/etc you apply does not change its core, kernel + OS build. It will always identify itself as Windows 98 SE build 4.10.2222.

Updates I post here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=46581

can be installed on Win98 SE only if they are designed for Win98 SE.

WinME updates can only be installed on WinME.

I add WinME system files [like the GDI*.* WMF patch] to 98SE2ME to improve functionality/performance and/or eliminate bugs, but that doesn't mean those files are normally created/meant for 98 SE.

Example:

After you install updated GDI*.* files from WinME [by selecting 98SE2ME option 1 or 2] on your Win98 SE OS, if you try to install the 98 SE GDI*.* files from:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/...n/ms06-001.mspx

Direct download [393 KB, English]:

http://www.mdgx.com/files/Q912919.EXE

you'll get a nagging dialog box telling you the files you already have are newer [build 4.90.3002] than the ones you are trying to install [build 4.10.2226], and you can click "Yes" to keep them, or click "No" to replace them with the older ones.

Therefore 98SE2ME always installs the newest files available [if appropriate].

Please keep in mind that I'm experimenting with WinME system files for over 5 years, so I kinda know most that are ok to replace and I always make sure they work properly with Win98 SE.

But even with the 2 GDI*.* files from WinME patch, Win98 SE OS is still Win98 SE OS, and will not allow to install WinME patches, unless you unpack the EXEs manually using a CAB tool [ http://www.mdgx.com/toy.htm#ZIP ], and then manually install them from native MS-DOS [where appropriate].

Hope this helps.

[bristols]

Right.

Win98 SE no matter which updates/patches/SPs/(hot)fixes/replacements/etc you apply does not change its core, kernel + OS build. It will always identify itself as Windows 98 SE build 4.10.2222.

Updates I post here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=46581

can be installed on Win98 SE only if they are designed for Win98 SE.

WinME updates can only be installed on WinME.

Sure. This I understand.

Please keep in mind that I'm experimenting with WinME system files for over 5 years, so I kinda know most that are ok to replace and I always make sure they work properly with Win98 SE.

This is clear also. I wasn't questioning your knowledge at all.

But even with the 2 GDI*.* files from WinME patch, Win98 SE OS is still Win98 SE OS, and will not allow to install WinME patches, unless you unpack the EXEs manually using a CAB tool [ http://www.mdgx.com/toy.htm#ZIP ], and then manually install them from native MS-DOS [where appropriate].

Right! This is kind of nearer to what I personally was asking about - installing individual files from ME updates, rather than trying to install ME hotfixes on 98SE by executing the .exe. I guess my question is/was quite simple (and the answer obvious, probably), but I just wanted to run it by you, to be 100% clear.

Take for example the file WINSOCK.DLL - one of the 98SE files updated by 98SE2ME to a ME file. If in the future a ME hotfix turns up with the latest known build of this file - a later build than the one supplied by 98SE2ME - is there any reason why a person should not unpack the hotfix and replace their 98SE2ME-replaced WINSOCK.DLL file with a newer build? So, is it ok to manually update files that 98SE2ME has previously updated? Or, is the answer less than clear cut, so that one has to decide on a file-to-file basis?

I hope these are slightly different questions to the one you have already answered.

Edit:

Will/could there be compatibility/funtion issues when only some of the ME files are (gradually) replaced by (updated) 98se files?

Thanks for asking that one again, PsycoUnc. I deliberately left that question out in this post, because it's my guess that this is possible, but that which of the newer 98SE files replacing older ME files will cause problems will be mainly only known as the result of trial and error, and in many cases these particular problems remain to be encountered (because I guess not many people have been installing 98SE2ME and then allowing 98SE updates to install files with lower build numbers than those of the ME files installed by 98SE2ME). Just for the record (for anyone who didn't follow the thread, and as an example of the situation we're talking about here), the recent unofficial CRYPT9x update contained a higher build-numbered but older and 'less functional' ME file than the latest, newer but lower build-numbered 98SE file (in fact I think it was the file CRYPT32.DLL, which had been updated for 98SE but not for ME). Petr pointed this out, and after that the older ME file in CRYPT9x was replaced by the newer 98SE file. Gah, I hope this makes sense.

Edited March 4, 2006 by bristols

[PsycoUnc]

-lol, yes, it makes sense, was just hoping it wasn't going to be this complicated to know exactly which updates to apply, how/when to apply them, etc. when using 98se2me... it's my fault, my general laziness, I should have been keeping a running log of all this stuff/updates/files, but hoped I wouldn't have to, hoped that such concerns would already have been taken care of by the uber-experienced pro's doing 98se2me+updates...

-so, it does boil down to my original post: we have to do a file-by-file comparison of new updates, both for 98se and ME, to see which files apply to our 98se2me'd OS, and which ones don't, and then take a chance when it turns out that a 98se updated file needs to replace an old ME one... -Not extremely reassuring, considering I use 98se2me and MDGx's updates for stability reassurance, but now it's a bit more "iffy"... still a major plus, tho, don't get me wrong! Still VERY appreciative for everything MDGx, Gape, etc are doing! I'm just a little "OCD" when it comes to worrying about potential stability issues/unknowns...

{...and I'm far too FLAKY these days to keep track of everything in my head (too dam many meds, lol), + too lazy to chart it all down on paper/file; not a great combination B) }

>;]

(...was just hoping MDGx could tell us, during each new posted update, whether it's also appropriate for 98se2me'd OS's, instead of just "for ME" or "for 98se"... as he mentioned in his last post, he's pretty good by now at knowing right away which it is, would save us the time/effort/guesswork...)

Edited March 5, 2006 by PsycoUnc

[celtish]

No matter which updates/SPs/patches/fixes/upgrades/replacements/etc you have installed, Win98 SE still remains Win98 SE ...

That's something I'd been wondering and worrying about but I found W98SE2ME.EXE worked okay. BTW, my diagnostics come up with build 2222 or sometimes 2222A - what's the difference?

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

after installing 98se2me i go 2 microsoft updates and there is a storage supplement shutdown update. is it newer or older than the one from 98se2me and should i install it

[Marius '95]

Did anybody notice a decrease of speed when copying large files from network after installing 98SE2ME?

[MDGx]

Right! This is kind of nearer to what I personally was asking about - installing individual files from ME updates, rather than trying to install ME hotfixes on 98SE by executing the .exe. I guess my question is/was quite simple (and the answer obvious, probably), but I just wanted to run it by you, to be 100% clear.

Take for example the file WINSOCK.DLL - one of the 98SE files updated by 98SE2ME to a ME file. If in the future a ME hotfix turns up with the latest known build of this file - a later build than the one supplied by 98SE2ME - is there any reason why a person should not unpack the hotfix and replace their 98SE2ME-replaced WINSOCK.DLL file with a newer build? So, is it ok to manually update files that 98SE2ME has previously updated? Or, is the answer less than clear cut, so that one has to decide on a file-to-file basis?

I hope these are slightly different questions to the one you have already answered.

Edit:

Will/could there be compatibility/funtion issues when only some of the ME files are (gradually) replaced by (updated) 98se files?

Winsock.dll cannot be replaced on its own, it depends on other files [you can find them all listed inside the INF files located in %windir%\INF].

This is also stated here [explaining why one must install also vip.386 + vtcp.386]:

http://www.mdgx.com/98-5.htm#KRM9S

If you install Win98 SE VIP.386 4.10.2227 Fix:

http://www.martini-man.com/pub/HPOmnibook/...DOCKING/269388/

and VTCP.386 4.10.2223 Fix:

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=236926

you can also replace ALL Winsock files (MSWSOCK.DLL, MSWSOSP.DLL, WINSOCK.DLL,

WS2_32.DLL, WS2HELP.DLL, WS2THK.DLL, WSCTHUNK.DLL, WSOCK32.DLL, WSASRV.EXE,

AFVXD.VXD, WSHTCP.VXD, WSIPX.VXD, WSOCK.VXD + WSOCK2.VXD) with WinME's, which

work ONLY IF those 2 files are already installed.

And it is also explained in 98SE2ME READ1ST.TXT:

READ1ST.TXT

FYI:

You'll probably find more info in READ1ST.TXT that might answer your questions.

Please see especially the "FAQ" section.

Hope this helps.

________________________________________________

(...was just hoping MDGx could tell us, during each new posted update, whether it's also appropriate for 98se2me'd OS's, instead of just "for ME" or "for 98se"... as he mentioned in his last post, he's pretty good by now at knowing right away which it is, would save us the time/effort/guesswork...)

Will do in the future.

FYI:

Usually the same day I post updates here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=46581

I also post a new 98SE2ME update to include new WinME files I got a hold of, if those files are appropriate for 98 SE OS.

And each 98SE2ME update:

http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=46349

lists complete details about files/whatever/etc was changed in that particular release.

So if you watch both these forums for updates:

http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=46581

http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=46349

there is not much guesswork involved.

This forum:

http://www.msfn.org/board/?showtopic=46581

states at the top that:

... some [ME patches]have already been added to 98SE2ME.

Hope this helps.

[MDGx]

my diagnostics come up with build 2222 or sometimes 2222A - what's the difference?

None.

Windows 98 SE OS identifies itself as 4.10.2222 or 4.10.2222 A, depending on which diagnostics/detection tools are used.

That's because different system files either display the A or do not, when called upon to identify the OS version/release/edition/build.

More info:

http://www.mdgx.com/ver.htm

http://www.mdgx.com/win.htm

For example, if u right-click on My Computer desktop icon and select Properties, you'll see something like this:

http://www.mdgx.com/ver95.gif

That means Win98 SE OS will always be 4.10.2222 [with or without the A] no matter which/how many updates/(hot)fixes/patches/SPs/replacements/etc you install.

And that means you will only be allowed to install Win98 SE patches/(hot)fixes/SPs, even if u install [or not] 98SE2ME or individual ME/2000/XP/2003/Vista/etc files.

That's because u can't replace the OS core files, like: krnl386.dll, krnl386.exe.

Of course, you could hex those files to display whatever OS build/version, but why would you want to do that for? It would only screw everything up, the 1st time you try to install a patch/fix not intended for 98 SE [or which does not properly detect the OS build], and doing so will lock up your OS.

And if you don't know how to replace system files from native MS-DOS or don't have a backup to restore from, you would have to reinstall your OS.

Hope this helps.

__________________________________________________

after installing 98se2me i go 2 microsoft updates and there is a storage supplement shutdown update. is it newer or older than the one from 98se2me and should i install it

98SE2ME does not install any 98 SE patches/fixes except the ones listed in READ1ST.TXT:

READ1ST.TXT

and those are installed only for the purpose of being able to use WinME system files.

Therefore 98SE2ME does not install any shut down supplement files.

Complete list of files installed by 98SE2ME is also found in READ1ST.TXT and all WinME files installed are listed here:

http://www.mdgx.com/98-5.htm#FME

This info is detailed in READ1ST.TXT:

READ1ST.TXT

Please see especially the "FAQ" section.

Hope this helps.

[MDGx]

Did anybody notice a decrease of speed when copying large files from network after installing 98SE2ME?

I have not.

I've been using 98SE2ME [WinME files] for over 5 years, never noticed internet/network slowdown.

IMO:

Could it possibly be another cause for your slowdown?

This depends on too many factors, making it dificult to narrow it down to 1 cause:

- time of day

- day of the week

- particular server

- MTU/RWIN/IPMTU/Black Hole/TCP/etc registry settings:

http://www.mdgx.com/modem.htm#MY

http://www.mdgx.com/toy.htm#MTU

- the reliability of your ISP

- if using dial-up/56k/analog modem depends on: land line length/reliability, phone company provider etc:

http://www.mdgx.com/56k.htm

Hope this helps.

[Petr]

my diagnostics come up with build 2222 or sometimes 2222A - what's the difference?

None.

Windows 98 SE OS identifies itself as 4.10.2222 or 4.10.2222 A, depending on which diagnostics/detection tools are used.

That's because different system files either display the A or do not, when called upon to identify the OS version/release/edition/build.

More info:

http://www.mdgx.com/ver.htm

http://www.mdgx.com/win.htm

For example, if u right-click on My Computer desktop icon and select Properties, you'll see something like this:

http://www.mdgx.com/ver95.gif

That means Win98 SE OS will always be 4.10.2222 [with or without the A] no matter which/how many updates/(hot)fixes/patches/SPs/replacements/etc you install.

And that means you will only be allowed to install Win98 SE patches/(hot)fixes/SPs, even if u install [or not] 98SE2ME or individual ME/2000/XP/2003/Vista/etc files.

That's because u can't replace the OS core files, like: krnl386.dll, krnl386.exe.

Of course, you could hex those files to display whatever OS build/version, but why would you want to do that for? It would only screw everything up, the 1st time you try to install a patch/fix not intended for 98 SE [or which does not properly detect the OS build], and doing so will lock up your OS.

And if you don't know how to replace system files from native MS-DOS or don't have a backup to restore from, you would have to reinstall your OS.

The version information (4.10.1998/4.10.2222) used by both IExpress packages and MS Installer is stored in kernel32.dll file.

It is interesting that kernel32.dll 4.10.2222 works well in Windows 98 Standard (First, Gold) edition and this enables to install Adobe Reader 6.04 on this OS. After install it can be replaced back to 4.10.1998.

The version information (4.10.1998/4.10.2222) displayed by right-clicking the My Computer icon is stored in sysdm.cpl file.

The sub-version information (A, B) is stored in registry in HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion key in text value "SubVersionNumber". " A" (please note space betore A) is standard after clean install, it is changed to "B" (without space) by appying updates from Windows 98 SE Security Update CD (February 2004). It is known that "B" causes that some programs won't install.

Petr

[bristols]

(...was just hoping MDGx could tell us, during each new posted update, whether it's also appropriate for 98se2me'd OS's, instead of just "for ME" or "for 98se"... as he mentioned in his last post, he's pretty good by now at knowing right away which it is, would save us the time/effort/guesswork...)

Will do in the future.

This would be great. Thanks MDGx.

Edited March 11, 2006 by bristols

[celtish]

my diagnostics come up with build 2222 or sometimes 2222A - what's the difference?

None. Windows 98 SE OS identifies itself as 4.10.2222 or 4.10.2222 A, depending on which diagnostics/detection tools are used.

That's because different system files either display the A or do not, when called upon to identify the OS version/release/edition/build. More info:

http://www.mdgx.com/ver.htm

http://www.mdgx.com/win.htm

For example, if u right-click on My Computer desktop icon and select Properties, you'll see something like this: http://www.mdgx.com/ver95.gif

MGDx

That means Win98 SE OS will always be 4.10.2222 [with or without the A] no matter which/how many updates/(hot)fixes/patches/SPs/replacements/etc you install. And that means you will only be allowed to install Win98 SE patches/(hot)fixes/SPs, even if u install [or not] 98SE2ME or individual ME/2000/XP/2003/Vista/etc files. That's because u can't replace the OS core files, like: krnl386.dll, krnl386.exe.

Petr

My System Properties comes up with Windows98SE whereas 'Run winver' (as suggested by MDGx) comes up with Windows Millenium! How come so? I have installed W98SE2ME and Gape's latest SP. Edited March 12, 2006 by plonkeroo

[PsycoUnc]

1) -MDGx, the poster asking about network speeds I believe was referring to speeds between LAN'd puters, not internet transfers, and I've wondered myself lately, because when running XP on BOTH puters, my transfers between them are very much faster, but if either puter has 98se running it's slow (have tried it w/2 diff routers, and several different network drivers)... I haven't tried it w/OS installs without 98se2me, tho, so don't know if it's 98se2me or just 98se vs. XP (which is probably the case)...

...

2) -thx for offering the additional info in future updates, appreciate it! I've noticed in the past that u also update 98se2me when appropriate, but lately didn't notice this trend (always) continuing, and your update thread's statement of "some [ME patches] have already been added to 98SE2ME" kinda made me worry that we/I might be missing some... but I'll just keep an eye on both threads, as always, and trust that all is well (I'll firmly stamp my OCD worry-instinct into the ground, lol)

...

3) -when u do occasionally remove a (troublesome) ME replacement file from 98se2me's list, how do we know where to get the latest (possibly updated) win98se file? The original OS CD/cab's file(s) may very likely be outdated, buggy, security-flawed, etc, so is there some (easy) way to find out if that particular file has been updated, and which is the latest version, without plying thru every MS official AND unofficial update package to see if that file is listed, and if so, which update contains the latest version? A VERY daunting task, indeed! -the only way I can think of, is to keep two constantly updated OS versions going: one with 98se2me, and one without, as comparison... which is kinda annoying, as well, tho much less so perhaps and undoubtably safest... any other ideas? (I of course deliberately don't mention trusting WinUpdate in this regard)

Edited March 15, 2006 by PsycoUnc

[Eck]

I've always noticed that internet downloads are zippier when using XP, for some reason. Whether I use TCPDoctor to manually set some of the speeds doesn't seem to make much of a difference. The broadband tests always tell me everythings looking great.

But it's just zippier on XP. I don't get it.

Don't thing it's any Service Pack or 98SE2ME relation. It's just something in XP that is better optimized for broadband.

Yes, it does get a bit confusing just knowing whether you have all the right updates. I guess we just need to do the best we can without obsessing over it. I know I'm not about to look at every stinking file to see if it's the right one. We all have better things to do.

[PsycoUnc]

-for several years now on broadband (comcast cable modem, 5mbps) I've always used one quick, easy tweak which has always greatly improved download/surfing speeds (often doubling the average! really!):

TCP receive window: 32120 (the middle-range setting; not the max 64k, not the low default)... I set it using the tiny simple PcPitstop "Autofix" from long ago, takes a little searching these days to find it online sometimes, but it's been absolutely reliable on every comcast-broadband puter I've worked on... quick, simple, totally reliable... -it's the only setting I mess with, since I've not seen consistency with any others on this type connection...

>;]

...

[ps: Eck: ...I don't have a life, so "...obsessing..." about insignificant, petty things is pretty much my primary hobby. ]

...

[pps: hmm, I'm really thinking about doing the "dual 98" OS thing, one w/98se2me, one without, for 3 reasons now:

1) the reason mentioned previously; see 2 posts ago;

2) it would also make a nice testbed for any potential probs w/98se2me, "ME" updates, etc...

3) ...and it wouldn't take much effort, just an additional 2 directories and the occasional extra few minutes to apply the secondary updates each time... worth it

]

Edited March 16, 2006 by PsycoUnc