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98SE2ME = Killer Replacements: ME -> 98 SE

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#101
Eck

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PychoUnc,

Naah. I have an ATI Radeon 9600XT on the Asus A7V880 you see down in my signiture with Windows XP Home, and an Asus Radeon 9550GE on the Asus A7V333 with Windows 98SE. (I also occasionally play with an old Abit KT7A with a Voodoo 5 5500 AGP.) I install the latest official Catalysts available from ATI for both and generally leave the settings alone, apart from setting DirectX to use 75 MHz refresh rates instead of the random or 60 it'll use by default.

I used to be a heavy gamer years ago (I mean the beginnings of video gaming). I still have my Nintendo consoles (NES, both regular and NES2, GameBoy original and color, SuperNES, the original and another later edition for backup, and the N64) along with all the games I bought back then. I'm mostly at my computer now, so if I want to revisit the games I usually just use FCEUltraNES or SNES9x rather than firing up the old boxes, but I sometimes want to use the original controllers so at times I do use the consoles.

When I bought my first computer I was still into seeing what it could do in gaming so I also have a lot of PC games circa 97-2001. I got more interested in building my own machines and tinkering with Dos and Windows to get stuff (including games) to work than in playing the games themselves.

Now, I mostly listen to mp3's and play DVD's for leisure. My favorites for occasions when I want to game are simple arcade stuff, pinball games, and some old Ms-Dos games. Having to sit and master a game's controls and solve a long adventure doesn''t interest me anymore. I like up, down, left, right, A, B, and maybe left toggle, right toggle. I have no interest in teaching my fingers to use 10 or more gamepad buttons to play a game.

I never got excited by 1st person shooters so all the interest in high frame rates and overclocking to get them never came my way. I want the card to be able to process fast, but I'm more concerned with stability and keeping everything working smooth. Personally, I'd rather have stuff look better than go faster. (In games, not computers!)

So, okay, I got a little boring with my gaming after playing everything that was out there in the old days! I look at new stuff and say,"I played the same thing with not as good graphics." And I'm certainly not going to spend limited funds to buy them with my shelves filled with a lot of games I never even got to yet.

Oh, and I never install Option 3. I use Option 2. If I wanted Windows Me Shell I'd install Windows Me. I just want the good improvements that Me had transferred to 98. 98 always was faster and more reliable than Me and I think one of the reasons was the graphical tricks used by the Me Explorer and Shell that slowed things down. I don't consider that one of the "improvements" I want. If I want to temporarilly make things look different I'll just use a Theme.
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#102
Wolf_Demon

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is it a bad thing if win386.swp doesn't get backed up?

#103
PsycoUnc

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-eck: yeah, I'm more of an Old School gamer myself, too... I like em simple, too stressed 'n crusty for most of the "involved" games today... Dinosaur I am, I miss the atari 2600's joystick w/only ONE button! :P (tho I used to be a Master arcade gamer, way back b4 all the arcade games turned into boring "street fighter" style games :realmad: ; actually won a 10-speed once, accidentally, didn't even know there was a contest on for that game; almost won 2! And every week I won foot-long coneys (6 of em!) and 4 dozen donuts, at the local strip mall, just playin... ah, fun!) -MAME32's oldieMoldies DOS arcade games work for me, along with "just 20 BOTs w/knives" cstrike1.6... And don't forget VERY simple yet suprisingly addictive Jardinains! (really gets fun, after Round 250... on round 700+ now...)

-well, about option 3, looks like I'll be reviewing the notes regarding exactly what improvements are gained, and if stability IS increased, then I'll stick w/it; on my main system here any performance loss is unnoticeable and the stability improvement is VERY noticeable, so we'll see...
>;]

#104
Eck

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Others will have to fill you in on specifics. For me, the Explorer, Shell, and System Health stuff was what was bad about Windows Me. The updated system files were what was good, and why I used Me for a 9x system until these folks started coming out with 98SE service packs and stuff.

Now, there's no question that 98SE is the most updated 9x system available as Windows Me's System File Protection has made it too much of a hastle for folks to bother putting together updates for. Plus the fact that many folks never bothered buying Windows Me. I'm glad I did since for a long time it was the most advanced 9x system and now I have the cd so I can use 98SE2ME!

I hadn't played games for a while (except for Baseball Mogul and Microsoft Baseball 2001) so you lit up a little fire in me! I installed Microsoft Entertainment Pack, Atari 80 Classics, Activision Anthology Remix, Microsoft Return Of Arcade, and Microsoft Revenge Of Arcade after getting done replying to you. I also installed all the Carmen Sandiego games. See what you did? Now I'll be wasting time playin' instead of workin'!

Played a little JezzBall, Galaxian, Pac-Man, Pole Position, and the old version of Where In the USA Is Carmen Sandiego already. Geez, I haven't scratched the surface. This stuff could take up day and night. Cool!

I remember in the late 70's when I was managing a gas station/candy store type of place and we had a deal with a video game guy. Once every couple of weeks he would swap out a machine and we would share the quarters 50/50. I played a lot of the old arcade games for the first time on those machines, but I was a little peeved that my boss got my quarters! (All's fair. I was playing on his company time!)
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#105
randiroo76073

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Hate to breakup the reverie, but just noticed the ME[legal copy] I have is a ME upgrade disk, has a shiny surface that you have to turn in light just right to read. Please tell me I don't have to go swapmeeting[altho enjoy it] to look for a full retail ver again, to do a clean install 98se/sp2/982me. TIAFAI

#106
PsycoUnc

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-the Upgrade disc should have all the ME CABS.... so 98se2me should be good 2 go...

-now, reinstalling 98se first, that'll take a 98se disc (upgrade or not) -or- the 98se CABS on hard drive, prob at \windows\options\cabs...

Edited by PsycoUnc, 18 June 2005 - 11:31 AM.


#107
MDGx

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It's strange that the file MSCONFIG.EXE in the W98SEOLD folder is a 4.90.3000 then.

Is is there probably because u installed a 98SE2ME edition older than 6-14-2005, which installed Tihiy's msconfig.exe in %windir%\system BEFORE making the c:\w98seold backup.
This is because modded msconfig.exe + regenv32.exe are installed as part of mandatory components, BEFORE the backup is created. But starting with the 6-14-2005 edition, msconfig.exe is renamed to meconfig.exe and then installed in %windir%\system , so it does not replace the 1 u already have anymore, whichever version that is.
So if u used 98SE2ME from before 6-14-2005 u have Tihiy's msconfig.exe [4.90.3000 = please note that build number is identical with original file from WinME CD] in c:\w98seold .
Please see READ1ST.TXT for details:
READ1ST.TXT

The version of Themes.exe installed by the Microsoft 98 Plus! cd is an updated one that fixes the issue of the program not displaying the Title Bar colors correctly.  When running 98SE2ME this is replaced by another version (probably from Windows Me) that fixed other problems in the original 98 version of Themes.exe.  However this again breaks the title bar color.  They appear solid dark blue instead of the correct dark blue on the left fading to light blue.  I now must extract the version on the 98 Plus! cd to fix the problem.
Perhaps you can use the one from the 98 Plus! cd as one of the forced updates in the 98SE2ME batch file?  It works perfectly, fixed the same problems that the one in Windows Me fixed, but it doesn't have the title bar color problem.

Thanks a lot for noticing.
I'll update 98SE2ME to remove WinME setup CD themes.exe + themes.cpl files, because the ones from Plus! 98 are newer.
I won't include the files from Plus! 98 because u need to have the Plus! 98 CD to install them [legal license issues].

Heh, heh, my dos games seem to need a reboot to start again after I close them.  If I try to run them again, the screen goes to black (trying to open the game full screen-it does this for most games whether or not I check the pif's full screen box), then immediately returns to Windows desktop.  Then Explorer crashes (I think it's related to winoldap.  I remember having problems with that in the days before XP and Dosbox and vdmsound).  So, if I exit a dos game I need to reboot to run it again.  Even with clean booting using msconfig (whatever version it is I have) with just the Windows stuff running.  Perhaps it's my Radeon 9550 driver getting confused with the resolution changes, who knows.

This is probably a video hardware problem, not related to 98SE2ME.

Hope this helps.

#108
MDGx

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Hate to breakup the reverie, but just noticed the ME[legal copy] I have is a ME upgrade disk, has a shiny surface that you have to turn in light just right to read. Please tell me I don't have to go swapmeeting[altho enjoy it] to look for a full retail ver again, to do a clean install 98se/sp2/982me. TIAFAI

U can install 98SE2ME no matter which version of WinME CD u have: Full, Upgrade, Update, OEM, MSDN etc.
Please see READ1ST.TXT, the "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT" chapter for more details:
READ1ST.TXT

Hope this helps.

#109
MDGx

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To my knowledge the differences [added WinME files] between early + current 98SE2ME editions should not slow down UI loading.
This is true only if 98SE2ME option 3 is not installed, in which case you would have the slower ME explorer + shell.
I'm testing + using all files from 98SE2ME on my PC, and also personally installed 98SE2ME [various editions] on 10+ other computers, and never noticed slower performance, unless option 3 is installed.

? -option 3 slows down performance? Then it's only there for increased stability? I thought it was there for both... ?

Option 3 only adds "annoying" WinME UI interface to 98SE, which in most cases is slower than "normal" 98SE UI interface.
Does nothing to increase performance, that's why I keep it separate from all other options. ;)

Edited by MDGx, 18 June 2005 - 04:24 PM.


#110
randiroo76073

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Thnx PsycoUnc & MGDx, you just saved my doggies from barkin :lol: Dldg latest 982ME now, everything else is already on hdd, will start this eve, w/lotsa coffee & patience & printcopy of SP guide & 982ME handy[for some reason haven't got em memorized]

#111
MDGx

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is it a bad thing if win386.swp doesn't get backed up?

No. This is actually a good thing, cuz the SWP file may contain private data that can be harvested by viruses/trojans/worms.
And this file is recreated every time your OS boots up anyway. ;)

#112
PsycoUnc

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Option 3 only adds "annoying" WinME UI interface to 98SE, which in most cases is slower than "normal" 98SE UI interface.
Does nothing to increase performance, that's why I keep it separate from all other options. ;)

-ok, but does option 3 increase/decrease stability at all? (I perused your readme.1st again, but didn't notice an answer to this question...)

#113
MDGx

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-ok, but does option 3 increase/decrease stability at all?  (I perused your readme.1st again, but didn't notice an answer to this question...)

ME shell + explorer probably do decrease stability, because it is possible that certain ME API functions may not be properly supported by 98SE.
That's the other reason why I keep option 3 separate.
READ1ST.TXT, under the "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT" + "98SE2ME.PIF COMPLETE GUIDE" [the "* Option 3:" paragraph] chapters, contains a little hint:
CAUTION:
WinME files installed by option 3 may change/lose Win98 SE interface
functionality!
You may also want to ask Tihiy, he's the author of Revolutions Pack, based on API functions from ME + XP.

UPDATED 6-19-2005:
I just updated READ1ST.TXT:
READ1ST.TXT
to include this statement:
CAUTION:
WinME files installed by option 3 may change and/or lose Win98 SE interface
functionality, stability and/or performance!
under the "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT" + "98SE2ME.PIF COMPLETE GUIDE" [under the "* Option 3:" paragraph] chapters.

Hope this helps.

#114
charly

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-ok, but does option 3 increase/decrease stability at all?  (I perused your readme.1st again, but didn't notice an answer to this question...)

ME shell + explorer probably do decrease stability, because it is possible that certain ME API functions may not be properly supported by 98SE.
That's the other reason why I keep option 3 separate.
READ1ST.TXT, under the "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT" + "98SE2ME.PIF COMPLETE GUIDE" [the "* Option 3:" paragraph] chapters, contains a little hint:
CAUTION:
WinME files installed by option 3 may change/lose Win98 SE interface
functionality!
You may also want to ask Tihiy, he's the author of Revolutions Pack, based on API functions from ME + XP.

UPDATED 6-19-2005:
I just updated READ1ST.TXT:
READ1ST.TXT
to include this statement:
CAUTION:
WinME files installed by option 3 may change and/or lose Win98 SE interface
functionality, stability and/or performance!
under the "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT" + "98SE2ME.PIF COMPLETE GUIDE" [under the "* Option 3:" paragraph] chapters.

Hope this helps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


MDGx,
How do you back out of option 3-- I reinstalled explorer+shell32+comdlg32 and ran your ZIP files -- the one "To fix the Start button issue" W98SE.BAT(W98SE.INF)
and this made START button work except SEARCH, but MY COMPUTER default is
now -SEARCH- and FOLDER when you click are the default OPEN HERE COMMAND.
How do you change the default for MY COMPUTER and FOLDERS--right click and
you can select OPEN and it works, but can't set as default--this is not set in register
anywhere and FILE TYPES can't set it? Does this have anything to do with DESK.CPL? Versions for the explorer,shell32 and comdlg reinstalled from 98CD
with SFC.
Any HELP here for this?

#115
MDGx

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MDGx,
How do you back out of option 3-- I reinstalled explorer+shell32+comdlg32 and ran your ZIP files -- the one "To fix the Start button issue" W98SE.BAT(W98SE.INF)
and this made START button work except SEARCH, but MY COMPUTER default is
now -SEARCH- and FOLDER when you click are the default OPEN HERE COMMAND.
How do you change the default for MY COMPUTER and FOLDERS--right click and
you can select OPEN and it works, but can't set as default--this is not set in register
anywhere and FILE TYPES can't set it? Does this have anything to do with DESK.CPL? Versions for the explorer,shell32 and comdlg reinstalled from 98CD
with SFC.
Any HELP here for this?

U can restore 98SE original files from:
Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs -> select "98SE2ME Option 3: Restore
Win98 SE Explorer + Shell32
" -> click Add/Remove button -> reboot.
This works only after u already installed option 3 by running 98SE2ME.PIF.
Most [if not all] 98SE shell + UI functions should be restored this way.
This restore funtion does not use 98SE CD, all necessary files were renamed in %windir%\system when u ran option 3.
This procedure is fully detailed in READ1ST.TXT [see "* Option 3:" paragraph]:
READ1ST.TXT
If u care to see exactly how this works, just open RSTR3F.INF in Notepad.
The command to copy RSTR3F.INF to %windir%\INF and to add the proper entry to Add/Remove Programs are run during option 3 installation from these 98SE2ME.BAT lines:

C:\9!M\START/W RUNDLL32 %windir%\SYSTEM\ADVPACK.DLL,LaunchINFSection C:\9!M\RSTR3F.INF,3M
IF EXIST %windir%\INF\RSTR3F.INF C:\9!M\ATTRIB.COM/B +A -H -R -S %windir%\INF\RSTR3F.INF>NUL
IF EXIST C:\9!M\RSTR3F.INF COPY/Y C:\9!M\RSTR3F.INF %windir%\INF>NUL

As ar as I know DESK.CPL has nothing to do with this, because CPL files cannot be registered by regsvr32.exe, so they can't change UI functionality, except Control Panel UI for the respective CPL file.

Hope this helps.

#116
RJM

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Mystery solved.

Quote: eidenk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2|SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\VarLDID
Not sure of course this is the cause of your problem.

PS : I am a Win ME user.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I started over last weekend with an old backup, windows add/remove worked,
installed Gapes SP2.01, windows add/remove worked, backed up my registry
and then ran 98SE2ME.Windows add/remove did not work. I restored my registry
from the backup and it still did not work. I then went to my unmodified version
of WIN98SE on another machine and compared the registry entries under VarLDID.
In the version that I had run 98SE2ME on the entries28720, 29600, 29601, 29602, 30400
were missing before I had run the update. When I was looking for this problem
on the web I could only find this problem as being a Windows ME problem.
It seems that Windows 98SE does not care if these five registry entries are missing
but with the updated files from Win ME it does. Below are the correct registry entries
for VarLDID for Windows 98SE. In case this problem ever shows up again as I could
only find the entries for Windows ME VarLDID on the web.

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\VarLDID]
"28700"="C:\\PROGRA~1"
"28701"="C:\\Program Files"
"28702"="C:\\PROGRA~1"
"28710"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\ACCESS~1"
"28720"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\ACCESS~1\\HYPERT~1"
"28730"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\COMMON~1"
"28732"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\COMMON~1"
"28740"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\COMMON~1\\MICROS~1"
"28742"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\COMMON~1\\MICROS~1"
"29000"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1"
"29001"="C:\\Program Files\\Internet Explorer"
"29002"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1"
"29400"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1\\CONNEC~1"
"29401"="C:\\Program Files\\Internet Explorer\\Connection Wizard"
"29402"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1\\CONNEC~1"
"29600"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\Chat"
"29601"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\Chat"
"29602"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\Chat"
"29800"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\NETMEE~1"
"29801"="C:\\Program Files\\NetMeeting"
"29802"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\NETMEE~1"
"30000"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\OUTLOO~1"
"30001"="C:\\Program Files\\Outlook Express"
"30002"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\OUTLOO~1"
"30100"="C:\\WINDOWS\\system"
"30400"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\Plus!\\Themes"
"30800"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\WINDOW~1"
"30801"="C:\\Program Files\\Windows Media Player"
"30802"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\WINDOW~1"
Caution: The information on this web site may be unreliable, misleading, out-of-date, or just plain wrong.

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#117
PsycoUnc

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-RJM: I've never seen (or heard) of your Add/Remove problem b4... -it's probably user-specific (nice way of saying it's something you've done to your system, not 98se2me ;) )... -have ya tried doing a "clean" w98se install (no extra frills; just std stuff), and then take it one step at a time, watching Add/Remove?

...and on a different note:

-MDGx: thx again for all your excellent, detailed help. :D -as for option 3, I'm not sure which UI I prefer, and I've been enjoying such wonderful stability w/#3... I'll have to experiment, remove #3, see how that affects stability/UI...

>;]

#118
RJM

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PsycoUnc,

What I am trying to say, is that as eidenk said back on page 10 about this problem, is that some registry cleaners will remove registry entries in VarLDID. While this was not an issue for Win98 users it was for Win ME users, as a web search will confirm. And as there is no posting of the VarLDID section of the registry on the web for Win98 as there was no problem with the add/remove windows components with Win98. I decided to post it here as the problem will probably surface in the future as more people try 98SE2ME.

Edited by RJM, 20 June 2005 - 05:23 AM.

Caution: The information on this web site may be unreliable, misleading, out-of-date, or just plain wrong.

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#119
Excalibur007

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I have not used 98SE2ME since one of it's early first versions. Back then, as MDGx promised, it delivered super speed, with Windows  98se ready to go as soon as the desktop appeared. But the latest version is actually slower than a clean install of Win98SE followed by Gape's service pack. The cursor stays busy for a good 10 to 15 seconds and  windows don't open as fast either. Any other folks having this problem? Has speed been sacrificed for compatibility and latest file versions?

Thanks for your feedback.
I've never heard of such problem before. :(
To my knowledge the differences [added WinME files] between early + current 98SE2ME editions should not slow down UI loading.
This is true only if 98SE2ME option 3 is not installed, in which case you would have the slower ME explorer + shell.

But if anybody else can confirm similar experience, I'll look into it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a similar problem. My 98SE runs pretty fast, but after using 98SE2ME (without option3) I've noticed some slowdown from a fresh boot and it just gets worse from there. I find myself needing to reboot after doing only a few tasks or else it feels like I'm using my old Commodore 64 again. ;)
If I install option3, I tend to get wierd glitches that end up crashing my system. I like the UI, but I can't use it for long. Yesterday, I gave it another shot and it ended up giving errors on every file I'd try to open, saying it could not be found. I tried to open Control Panel to uninstall that option, but Control Panel wouldn't open due to a runtime error. A similar problem occurred after installing Tihiy's Revolution's Pack.

I've tried installing the 98SE2ME several times, but each time I find myself having to restore shortly after. I've ordered a DVD burner so I can back up my HD, reformat, and do a clean install of Win98SE. I'm hoping it will help. Before using this, I had Windows running pretty smooth, but since I've tried this, things haven't been quite right. For example: I'm experiencing the reboot hangups (try to restart and it exits windows and hangs) again and can't seem to get rid of it no matter what.

Here's my specs:
1GZ AMD Athlon
512 MB RAM
64MB Nvidia GEForce4 MX 420 (so I chose to "avoid using 32bit icons" with RP3.6)
Win98SE 4.10.2222A
BIOS - AST Research 10/12/00

BTW, I've installed all the updates available through Windows Update, as well as the Unofficial SP 2.01. I keep my PC pretty clean as far as viruses, spyware, and adware are concerned... so I know there's no problem there.

Also, I've read through the included documents several times and read through much of mdgx.com, but I'm still unclear about this.... After installing 98SE2ME, just what updates/fixes/etc. are there left to do from the lists? ex: Do I need to do the XP SP2 functionality serperately?

Thanks for all the work you've done. I'm sure I'll get it working right eventually.

Best Regards,
-Ex

#120
PsycoUnc

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PsycoUnc,

What I am trying to say, is that as eidenk said back on page 10 about this problem, is that some registry cleaners will remove registry entries in VarLDID. While this was not an issue for Win98 users it was for Win ME users, as a web search will confirm. And as there is no posting of the VarLDID section of the registry on the web for Win98 as there was no problem with the add/remove windows components with Win98. I decided to post it here as the problem will probably surface in the future as more people try 98SE2ME.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

-yes, that's what I mean, using some over-zealous registry cleaners caused potential probs in your system, which were made evident when 98se2me was installed... Every registry cleaner I've tried (with the single exception of MS Regclean 4.1a) has caused problems, sometimes delayed or hidden until something "triggers" it later... if you hadn't used the cleaner, this problem wouldn't be here... even tho it took 98se2me to trigger the prob, the potential for the prob was still there, and only because of the registry cleaner... which means, there very well could be (& prob are) more potential probs lurking w/in your registry, because of the cleaner, just waiting for another trigger... not good... and that's why I called it "user specific", cause many reg cleaners are VERY well known to cause just such problems, and should be avoided like the plague, IMHO... >;]

#121
Eck

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Microsoft RegClean is really, really old. There are plenty of programs now that install stuff that is only registered while the program is in use. Even Microsoft DirectX has registry entries dealing with the gamepad controllers that are only connected while a joystick is in use. And forget about Office programs. RegClean was simply not designed to recognize these kinds of things.

A regcleaner that is safe like the old RegClean, but updated for new types of programs is Macecraft Software's Jv16Powertools 2005. It is now a commercial program, where in years past (while "jv" was a "16" year old kid) it was free. But it is the best out there, and quite usefull for more than simple registry cleaning as well.
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#122
Eck

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MDGx,

Ah, that explains it. The 98SE2ME installed here is from 6-11-2005. So I now have 2 of the same versions, as I renamed one of them to MECONFIG! No problem. I'll just delete that one.

The nag screen at bootup if msconfig is used still shows up though. Was that one of the ones Tihiy removed? If so, then I do have the patched newer version as msconfig and the Tihiy version as meconfig. And that's the way 98SE2ME sets things up now, so I'll leave it alone. I use it infrequently anyway. Whatever's there is working, but it is just strange having the static vxd and environment tabs instead of autoexec and config. I'll just ignore that stuff for now. If I want to clean boot I know what to do!

Should I extract the Themes.cpl too? I just extracted the Themes.exe from the 98Plus! cd as I didn't know the control panel applet was different as well. It's too bad everyone can't use the fixed version of Themes.exe. I guess the only Microsoft release of it is on the 98Plus! cd. But the same can be said of 98SE2ME. Folks need to buy WinMe to use it, as well. And Microsoft never seems to give up on stuff. Ms-Dos use still needs a license! They should do what Rockstar Games does with GrandTheftAuto 1 and 2! Use our old stuff free and maybe you'll buy our new stuff.

It's pretty weird that Dosbox runs dosgames better than Dos. Just thinking aloud here, don't mind me.
Epox EP8KRAIPRO AthlonXP3200+ NVidia GeForce 6600GT AGP Audigy 2 ZS Crucial 2x1024MB 3200 RAM

#123
PsycoUnc

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Microsoft RegClean is really, really old.  There are plenty of programs now that install stuff that is only registered while the program is in use.  Even Microsoft DirectX has registry entries dealing with the gamepad controllers that are only connected while a joystick is in use.  And forget about Office programs.  RegClean was simply not designed to recognize these kinds of things.

A regcleaner that is safe like the old RegClean, but updated for new types of programs is Macecraft Software's Jv16Powertools 2005.  It is now a commercial program, where in years past (while "jv" was a "16" year old kid) it was free.  But it is the best out there, and quite usefull for more than simple registry cleaning as well.

-true, old regclean doesn't do much... I occasionally have to go in there and yank old stuff out myself... but I'd rather suffer thru that, rather than risk the results of an automated aggressive regcleaner, because once your reg is corrupted (which often isn't obvious; can be very sneaky), your whole install is untrustworthy... and I've had far too much experience w/that scenario :wacko: ... now, I've used jv16 (free) in the past, and liked it, but is it worth the risk? It can make it seem like new progs are buggy, when in fact it's your "cleaned" reg which is at fault, and I like to test new progs all the time... -then again, I've only tried freeware, maybe the paid stuff is more reliable, but again, is it worth the risk of never being sure if your reg may be corrupted? (I'd rather have old stuff lingering around in there, to be yanked manually by me every now and then...)
>;]

#124
Eck

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PsychoUnc,

I know what you mean. It depends how one uses the thing though. It's great for when I'm experimenting a bit like with Creative software. After uninstalling it and even using DriverCleaner, I can go in the jv16powertools2005 and look at the installed programs list. In the Creative example I would see stuff like ASIO, CDDB Control, etc and from past experience know that If I tell jv16 to remove the related entries like that it will be better to do so before removing the Creative program folder as this will unregister the stuff Creative leaves behind before I delete the files. This actually saves me from breaking an association since jv16 checks for what registry entries are associated with the particular installed program and when I click remove, it gets rid of them automatically. And believe me, Creative stuff isn't all located in one conveniant registry tree!

I also do trust the registry cleaner part of it (the original program he started with). But I only run it once in a while when I'm going to do a whole temp folder file deletion, Scandisk, Defrag.

It did mess up some stuff on my XP box but that was my fault. I now know to just close the taskbar notification area background tasks but not to clean boot using msconfig when I'm going to run the registry cleaner. See, I clean boot with the ethernet card connection disabled and ZoneAlarm off and everything except the Microsoft services unchecked in msconfig before running Disc Defragmenter. I don't suggest doing this and then running a registry cleaner! When I did that it deleted my startup shortcuts from the StartMenu's Startup folder (like Office and stuff), and the ATI Catalyst Control Panel's systray icon's startup routine. When I went back to normal startup in msconfig these things did not come back! Even checking show icon in systray in the ATI software didn't bring it back to run at startup. I needed to run the Catalyst Control Panel's add/remove programs uninstaller and repair the install, and I needed to run the office repair tool from the Word program's help menu to get back those startup shortcuts. After doing these things everything seemed okay, but as you said I didn't really know!

So I now run it as I said, with just clicking exit on the stuff in the systray, deleting the contents of my system temp folder and the Windows/Temp folder, empty my browser cache's then run registry cleaner. I then reboot. After that I disable the net, tell ZoneAlarm to go away at startup, and uncheck all but the main Windows stuff in msconfig's startup, and leave only the Microsoft stuff checked in services, reboot and then do a quick checkdisc from the GUI and run Disc Defragmenter. And I only do all this once in a blue moon or after I've installed a bunch of things to the HD or have been doing some video editing and have put in and removed large DVD size files.

So, I do trust the thing but I recognize that it's only a computer program and will botch things up if I hide everything from it! It didn't know, "Oh, he disabled some stuff so I'd better not delete those things." We learn by screwing up. Generally, if ya don't mess aroung with the startup controls it is very aware of what not to delete. And, it was my choice not to let it back up what it was deleting. It does offer to do so before making any changes. I just remembered having a problem with jv16 crashing when it had built up some backups so I usually don't bother and pray it knows what it's doing! The fact that it is the latest and very recent version comforts me about that.
Epox EP8KRAIPRO AthlonXP3200+ NVidia GeForce 6600GT AGP Audigy 2 ZS Crucial 2x1024MB 3200 RAM

#125
Eck

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MDGx,

I just went ahead and used Winzip to extract Themes.cpl from the Plus98! cd and overwrite the Me one. I figured that it was safe enough as that is what runs fine on 98SE anyway. No problems.

I think stuff is as it should be now. I'm gonna go play somethin'.
Epox EP8KRAIPRO AthlonXP3200+ NVidia GeForce 6600GT AGP Audigy 2 ZS Crucial 2x1024MB 3200 RAM




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