98 FE + 98 SE + ME updates + patches + (hot)fixes

[RetroOS]

K891711 (or Q891711) IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS: DO NOT USE IT

For the second time (same problem as with the previous version 2 months ago) my computer was unable to restart and I had to reinstall windows.

It said "unable to load user.exe" then shut down in 1/10th of a second. Clack! (You know, the sound when the PC power is turned off). I didn't have the possibility to restart it! ===> Boot Floppy time!

Fredledingue,

See this post.

[Fredledingue]

RetroOs,

I guarantee you that I installed the last september version because I remeber having read the "removed the ",,4" + ",,,4" strings " stuff before installing it: I always save all the notes posted by MDGx and save them in text files with the same name as that of the updates. Then I read each note before applying each update.

It has nothing to do with Revolution Pack because I never installed this pack on my computer.

There is a problem obviousely not related with RP.

Anyway, I don't want to hear about "explanation" or "cause that might be": What I see is that my PC crashed and destroyed my system twice already.

I have applied dozens of patches and upgrade packs, yet this is the only one which I have got troubles with.

I couldn't compare 100 computers on this patch, but I have compared 100 patches on this computer. And this patch has something realy scary in it. If it was a "very special boot up configuration", I would have had this problem more often than only when applying this patch, isn't it?

Given the seriouseness of the computer crash, it's safe to quarantine this update to the Dangerous category.

Despite the fact that others have installed it without problem. It's not like you get a temporary BSDO and then you go in safe mode:No, You just can't turn your computer on! Can you imagine that? Clack! Suddenly the machine is off as if someone pulled the power cable off the case. I NEVER have seen this effect on a PC ever.

Without a bootable floppy and some DOS knowledge I was toast. Imagine it's a newbie...

IMVHO, it should be removed from the list until it's packed into a decent installer.

[eidenk]

RetroOs,

I guarantee you that I installed the last september version because I remeber having read the "removed the ",,4" + ",,,4" strings " stuff before installing it: I always save all the notes posted by MDGx and save them in text files with the same name as that of the updates. Then I read each note before applying each update.

It has nothing to do with Revolution Pack because I never installed this pack on my computer.

There is a problem obviousely not related with RP.

Anyway, I don't want to hear about "explanation" or "cause that might be": What I see is that my PC crashed and destroyed my system twice already.

I have applied dozens of patches and upgrade packs, yet this is the only one which I have got troubles with.

I couldn't compare 100 computers on this patch, but I have compared 100 patches on this computer. And this patch has something realy scary in it. If it was a "very special boot up configuration", I would have had this problem more often than only when applying this patch, isn't it?

Given the seriouseness of the computer crash, it's safe to quarantine this update to the Dangerous category.

Despite the fact that others have installed it without problem. It's not like you get a temporary BSDO and then you go in safe mode:No, You just can't turn your computer on! Can you imagine that? Clack! Suddenly the machine is off as if someone pulled the power cable off the case. I NEVER have seen this effect on a PC ever.

Without a bootable floppy and some DOS knowledge I was toast. Imagine it's a newbie...

IMVHO, it should be removed from the list until it's packed into a decent installer.

I don't see how this patch could screw your system to the point you report. But maybe we are not speaking about the same thing as you haven't provided a link to the installer you claim creates such problems, if I am not mistaken.

Edited October 13, 2007 by eidenk

[Fredledingue]

Nor do I. But it did: user.exe was absent from my system at the time I rebooted with the floppy disk and user.dll probably too. Amd the computer turned itself the power off as i described above.

I didn't dream it (pinching myself to check ).

[Fredledingue]

Here is the link of the file in question:

- USER32.DLL + USER.EXE Fix [419 KB, English]:

http://www.mdgx.com/files/Q891711.EXE

Here are MDGx's comment on this patch:

Q891711, Q891711F + Q891711I:

http://www.mdgx.com/web.htm#9SU

English Fix only:

Removed ",,,4" + ",,4" strings from INF CopyFiles + RenFiles sections.

Added warning to *not* install this Fix if already installed RP:

* Unofficial Windows 98 SE Animated Cursor (.ANI) + Icon Handling USER32.DLL + USER.EXE 4.10.2233 Security Vulnerability Fix

A few months ago MDGx wrote about previous versions of this patch:

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT:

You MUST REBOOT at END of INSTALL for this Fix to complete properly!

Do NOT install this Fix MORE THAN ONCE WITHOUT REBOOTING AFTER FIRST INSTALL!

IF you ALREADY installed this Fix ONLY ONCE, BUT have NOT YET REBOOTED [which

would complete the install properly], you MUST REBOOT IMMEDIATELY, otherwise

Windows will LOCK UP!

IF you ALREADY installed this Fix MORE THAN ONCE, BUT have NOT REBOOTED AFTER

FIRST INSTALL OR BETWEEN INSTALLS [which would complete the install properly],

you MUST UNINSTALL it [see the "UNINSTALL" chapter below] BEFORE trying to

REinstall it again, otherwise Windows will LOCK UP!

The author of this fix prefers to remain anonymous.

===> But this was not my case: I launched the patch only once.

[noguru]

Fredledingue, what language version Win98 do you use? I had the same. At least you're not alone.

I rebooted immediatly after install but still. No RP installed, no exotic boot-config.

This has happened with my system with the gdi.exe/gdi32.dll update too! I blew another win98se machine with the shell32.dll fix.Somewhere the installer is going very wrong, because there are no files copied. But the originals are renamed to .98o and there you go...

Both these machines have a Dutch win98se and all these files have in common that they are kernel-system files.

I always install English fixes on my Dutch system without serious issues except for these cases. But nobody ever recommended this, I blame myself.

The blown systems can easily be fixed by extracting the files manually from the installer (the files themselves work fine) and copy them to \windir\system\ in real DOS. I learnt my lesson and will have them ready before trying to install the normal way.

Sure it would be great if this could be solved in future fixes, but we can't expect the creator of the fixes to test lots of different system-configurations let alone all.

[soporific]

OK, i've been on the receiving end of some USER.EXE, USER32.DLL and EXPLORER.EXE muckups quite a few times and it really is the simplest thing to fix if you know what's going on when this happens. Yes it p***es me off no end when it happens, but, again, it is the easiest thing to fix. For me. But what about others?

I think its high time the "keep Windows 98 alive" crew, which is most of us regular posters in the "Unofficial Win98 SE Service Pack" section of MSFN, create an automatic hotfix solution to fix all those caught up in the maelstrom of our system patching activities. I'm specifically talking about the USER*.* issues. Not everyone who takes a punt by installing these updates knows what to do when it all stops working, especially the problem that stops the OS from even loading. If this is your only connection to the internet, its highly inconvenient to get a fix for the problem by the usual way of asking for help online.

I know the REAL solution would be to create hotfixes that don't muck a system up, but the real world shows us its still possible. And when the solution is so easy i think its high time we provided one for the community.

So who wants the kudos for getting this fix together? I have some ideas if someone wants to help out...

[RetroOS]

I think an easy fix option is a great idea.

Exactly how this would be assembled is something to discuss.

Perhaps a separate thread?

However, I think there may be some issue that is some times appearing with the update installers.

I had a problem some weeks ago with the OLEUP update where it did not replace the files on reboot and left them missing.

See my post here. Also this post.

Maybe a recent update has caused problems with IExpress installers in some cases?

Something to look into.

MDGx: Any comments?

[eidenk]

Here is the link of the file in question:

- USER32.DLL + USER.EXE Fix [419 KB, English]:

http://www.mdgx.com/files/Q891711.EXE

Well I have installed this patch in a virtual machine and there is nothing wrong with it. According to me it CANNOT do what you claim it does (the computer turned itself the power off).

Here is the inf file of this patch :

; Unofficial Windows 98/98 SE/ME U891711 Fix
[Version]
Signature=$CHICAGO$
AdvancedINF=2.0
[DefaultInstall]
AddReg=2R
CopyFiles=2I,2S
RunPostSetupCommands=2N
Reboot=1
[2N]
"NOTEPAD.EXE %11%\KB891711\U891711.TXT"
[DefaultUninstall]
DelReg=2R
DelFiles=2I,2S
DelDirs=2D
UpdateInis=2X
Reboot=1
[DestinationDirs]
2X=10
2I=17
2S=11,KB891711
[2I]
U891711.INF
[2S]
Q891711.DLL
KB891711.EXE
U891711.TXT
[2R]
HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices","U891711",,%11%\KB891711\KB891711.EXE"
HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\U891711",,,
HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\U891711",DisplayName,,"· Uninstall Unofficial Windows 98/98 SE/ME U891711 Fix"
HKLM,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\U891711",UninstallString,,"RUNDLL32.EXE %11%\ADVPACK.DLL,LaunchINFSection %17%\U891711.INF,DefaultUninstall"
[2D]
"%11%\KB891711"
[2X]
WININIT.INI,Rename,,"DIRNUL=%11%\KB891711"
[SourceDisksNames]
1=,,0

It is meant to backup (used for uninstall) and replace user.exe and user32.dll and it works as expected :

First stage of the install copies the patched versions of user.exe (as user.001) and user32.dll (as user32.001) to the system dir :

And creates a wininit.ini file in which we can see that on the next reboot the original files are going to be backed up as user.098 and user32.098 before being replaced by the new versions :

And thist is exactly what it does. System check after reboot :

You can see that the original files have appeared and have been replaced by the patched ones.

No can you please tell me what in this installer, if it would fail for a reason or another, would yeld the symptoms you report ?

According to me it CANNOT yeld all the symptoms you report. It is impossible.

Here are MDGx's comment on this patch:

Q891711, Q891711F + Q891711I:

http://www.mdgx.com/web.htm#9SU

English Fix only:

Removed ",,,4" + ",,4" strings from INF CopyFiles + RenFiles sections.

Added warning to *not* install this Fix if already installed RP:

* Unofficial Windows 98 SE Animated Cursor (.ANI) + Icon Handling USER32.DLL + USER.EXE 4.10.2233 Security Vulnerability Fix

OK there is a warning it is incompatible with RP.

A few months ago MDGx wrote about previous versions of this patch:

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT:

You MUST REBOOT at END of INSTALL for this Fix to complete properly!

Do NOT install this Fix MORE THAN ONCE WITHOUT REBOOTING AFTER FIRST INSTALL!

IF you ALREADY installed this Fix ONLY ONCE, BUT have NOT YET REBOOTED [which

would complete the install properly], you MUST REBOOT IMMEDIATELY, otherwise

Windows will LOCK UP!

IF you ALREADY installed this Fix MORE THAN ONCE, BUT have NOT REBOOTED AFTER

FIRST INSTALL OR BETWEEN INSTALLS [which would complete the install properly],

you MUST UNINSTALL it [see the "UNINSTALL" chapter below] BEFORE trying to

REinstall it again, otherwise Windows will LOCK UP!

With all respect due to MDGx, most of those warnings are plain nonsense IMO, especially the first one :

Indeed, the first phase of install consist only into copying two files (+ an inf file to the inf folder) and creating a wininit.ini file so that user.exe and user32.dll can be backed up and replaced on reboot. There is no risk of any lock up whatsoever here.

The second warning makes more sense as reinstalling the patch without having uninstalled it first will lead to have back up files for uninstall that are not the original ones but the patched ones as well. No risks of lockup either here.

===> But this was not my case: I launched the patch only once.

Frankly, with no pun intended, your apparent lack of grasp of the most basic mechanisms of Windows is sometimes appaling.

Especially when considering the fact that you appear to be an experienced user who even writes complex VB scripts for checking system integrity.

[Fredledingue]

From what I have read above the problem is with the wininit.ini file.

Either wininit.ini is not executed at all

Either wininit.ini execute at a later stage when user.exe is already needed by the system

Either wininit.ini wasn't written correctly by the installer.

Eidenk

It's not because a code is written, as simple as it can be, that it will always be executed as intended. There is only a relatevely high probability that the code will be executed and this probability is never 100%. Not because of the coder but because of computer imprecision, unpredictability and unknowns.

The only reason why you think that it's impossible that it's not executed properly as verified in your test, is that you ignore these concepts.

I didn't mean to offend the anonimous. I imagine that he has tested his patch before and didn't see any possible error.

Now the goal is find out the unkown and the unpredictable in order to fix it.

noguru

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. My version is english.

So I don't think it's language version issue.

RetroOs,

I also had an issue with OLEUP in the past but thanks to MDGx's infos, I could solve the problem.

The effect of the wrong install with OLEUP was not even remotely as scary as with *891711.

[Fredledingue]

It's funny... I don't have user32.dll in my system.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Fredledingue

[dencorso]

I think an easy fix option is a great idea.

Exactly how this would be assembled is something to discuss.

Perhaps a separate thread?

However, I think there may be some issue that is some times appearing with the update installers.

I had a problem some weeks ago with the OLEUP update where it did not replace the files on reboot and left them missing.

See my post here. Also this post.

Maybe a recent update has caused problems with IExpress installers in some cases?

Something to look into.

MDGx: Any comments?

RetroOS:

Happened to me too!

OLEDLG00.DLL is not deleted AND the new OLEDLG.DLL is not added.

I used the same workaround as you did.

[dencorso]

It's funny... I don't have user32.dll in my system.

But of course you do. Question is where is it. That might be a reason for the problems you reported.

I mean, mixed user.exe/user32.dll versions... Try to find it, by using LOCATE. HTH

[Fredledingue]

Sorry, I found it indeed. I must have mistyped user32.dll when I searched for it.

[the_guy]

Hey guys,

Until MDGx updates his site with unofficial IE/OE updates, the newest version of the IE updater has those updates in them.

Download from Filefront

Also, a new version of the ME SP (I will not update the main topic until MDGx posts a link on his site, consider this a pre-release special).

Download from Filefront

the_guy