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Israel begins Gaza Strip pullout


mop

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i am from israel and its a very very sad day for us ,but who knows if it will lead to peace then i can accept it .

Israeli troops have arrived at the biggest settlement in the Gaza Strip to serve eviction notices, as Israel starts implementing its pullout plan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4150028.stm

please take a moment and look at this video :

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?Cli...30&ak=null&nb=1

Edited by mop
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Hi, I'm from the Netherlands, and I'm very curious about the views of the Israeli people on this.

In the media which I can receive here, I only get the views of the settlers in the occupied areas, but I hardly get to see the "average" Israeli (or Palestinian for that matter) on tv.

(Especially CNN and Al-Jazeera are very good in showing biased footage (of both sides). Although it's very hard to find an unbiased broadcaster.)

The fact that the parlement has voted in favour (which in my opinion is very bold, but very good indeed) means the majority of the Israeli people is pro-pullout, as the parlement is chosen by the people.

What can you say about this? And how closely tied to the situation are you personally? I'm very curious.

My personal opinion here on this very tricky and complecated matter is as follows:

I can understand the feelings of the settlers, some have lived there for over 30 years, but the settlers were there illegally since 1967 and they've occupied (fertile) Palestinian ground, which, in my opinion, belongs to the Palestinian people.

Personally I think Sharon isn't doing this because he's pro-Palestine, I think he swayed under international pressure and it's also miltary and economically easier. There are more than 1000 soldiers in the Gaza-strip protecting about 8000 soldiers, which is quite expensive, and very hard to do.

And apart from that, it'll be easier and cheaper for Israel to control their borders.

It's also a token of goodwill (made under international pressure) and I sincerely hope this will promote peace in the Levant, which the people there (both Israelians and Palestinians) are in dire need of.

The sad part of this situation is that there are 4 (or more) parties involved here.

Apart from the Israelians and the Palestinians (of which the majority just want a peaceful life), the are the radical Muslims (Hamas, Jihad, Al-Aqsa martyrs, etc.) and on the other side the ultra-orthodox Jews (of which the Kach-movement is about the most dangerous).

I'm afraid there will be some violoence in the next coming weeks, especially from members of the (illegal) Kach-movement. As they believe in a "Greater Israel", and the withdrawal crushes this 'dream' of theirs. Although there will also be trouble in Palestine because of the power-struggle between the ruling parties and Hamas.

But the Palestinian people are, in my opinion, fully entitled to the full Gazastrip and the West-Bank. Although I personally think Jerusalem should be split 2- or 3-ways (aren't there any Christians who also want a piece of the religious pie?), or should be governed in a shared Israeli-Palestinian council, maybe even under UN-supervision.

Mind you, I feel I'm not biased.

Nor for or against the Palestinians, nor for or against the Israelians. I'm from Jewish descent myself (although I'm an atheist, no religion to be found here), and almost my whole family died in the holocaust.

But the Israeli's did illegally occupy the Gaza-strip and the West-bank (I won't mention the rest of Israel, that's a discussion in itself), and those areas do belong to the Palestinians.

If someone would squat a room in my house I'd want them out, one way or another. (or to change it around: If I would break-in into somebody else's house and squat there I shouldn't be complaining if the owner of the house would want me out).

But unfortunately in the end it are just pure politics, not people :(

I just wish the best of peace, love and prosperity for both the people of Israel and Palestine alike!

Edited by anandus
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The fact that the parlement has voted in favour (which in my opinion is very bold, but very good indeed) means the majority of the Israeli people is pro-pullout, as the parlement is chosen by the people.
not so true ,israeli people is not a pro pullout ,like 50%+- saying that we shuld stay there.
What can you say about this? And how closely tied to the situation are you personally? I'm very curious.

i support this only if it will bring peace,i am not so sure about that,and i wonder what will we do when after this ends the arabs will attack us again

My personal opinion here on this very tricky and complecated matter is as follows:

I can understand the feelings of the settlers, some have lived there for over 30 years, but the settlers were there illegally since 1967 and they've occupied (fertile) Palestinian ground, which, in my opinion, belongs to the Palestinian people.

lets not start another topic about that please

Personally I think Sharon isn't doing this because he's pro-Palestine, I think he swayed under international pressure and it's also miltary and economically easier. There are more than 1000 soldiers in the Gaza-strip protecting about 8000 soldiers, which is quite expensive, and very hard to do.

correct!

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My personal opinion here on this very tricky and complecated matter is as follows:

I can understand the feelings of the settlers, some have lived there for over 30 years, but the settlers were there illegally since 1967 and they've occupied (fertile) Palestinian ground, which, in my opinion, belongs to the Palestinian people.

lets not start another topic about that please.

I can understand this you don't want a topic about that (it always ends up in the same yes-no discussion), but wasn't that why you opened this topic?

Essentially it's what this is about, short-term contemporary politics put aside.

But I'll try to avoid those issues :)

But I'd like to know more about how you, and other Israelians and Palestines on this forum (if there are any), experience this situation, how you're directly or indirectly involved.

I can imagine it to be very hard on some people, but there surely is a positive thing on this whole issue, being the fact that it, hopefully, will lead to peace and a peaceful co-existance between Palestine and Israel.

Maybe a weird question, but I only see upset Israelians on tv, but are there also (jewish) Israelians that are happy about this withdrawal? Or is the sentiment of the majority more like your own: "It's very sad, but if it promotes peace then it's a neccessary sacrifice to make"?

It's very hard to make an objective picture from the outside... :unsure:

Edited by anandus
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But I'd like to know more about how you, and other Israelians and Palestines on this forum (if there are any), experience this situation, how you're directly or indirectly involved.
i am not involved,i am go to the army only next year.

i don`t think that the pull out is done well now,cause first we need to sign some agreement and then pull out.

all the arabs are looking at this like israel is pulling out because of terror ,and they will continue to bomb us,cause they saw that they can achive things by terror

I can imagine it to be very hard on some people, but there surely is a positive thing on this whole issue, being the fact that it, hopefully, will lead to peace and a peaceful co-existance between Palestine and Israel.

i hope so,but it not gona happen,now they want jerusalem to :\

Maybe a weird question, but I only see upset Israelians on tv, but are there also (jewish) Israelians that are happy about this withdrawal? Or is the sentiment of the majority more like your own: "It's very sad, but if it promotes peace then it's a neccessary sacrifice to make"?

It's very hard to make an objective picture from the outside...  :unsure:

there are happy israelis to,but what u r looking at now on the tv is the israelians that are pulled out ,they not supposed to be happy.

and yes many of us thinks like me about that .

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But I'd like to know more about how you, and other Israelians and Palestines on this forum (if there are any), experience this situation, how you're directly or indirectly involved.

i am not involved,i am go to the army only next year.

i don`t think that the pull out is done well now,cause first we need to sign some agreement and then pull out.

all the arabs are looking at this like israel is pulling out because of terror ,and they will continue to bomb us,cause they saw that they can achive things by terror

That's interesting.

Do many Israeli's feel that this is because of the bombing/the second Intifada?

I was under the assumption that the relative 'cease fire' (although there is still some bombing) was one of the main reasons the Israeli government went ahead with the pull-out.

It actually never occured to me as "giving in to terrorism" (and still doesn't)

Arguably this could also be seen as the effect of terrorism ("We'll stop bombing if you'll hand over... blahblah..."), but I think there's a bigger picture involved here, to which both sides are slowly coming to terms with, somewhat reluctant, but they don't have much choice.

But in the end it's a tit-for-tat story.

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Do many Israeli's feel that this is because of the bombing/the second Intifada?

I was under the assumption that the relative 'cease fire' (although there is still some bombing) was one of the main reasons the Israeli government went ahead with the pull-out.

It actually never occured to me as "giving in to terrorism" (and still doesn't)

its not because of the cease fire,the cease fire will be over when we will be out of gaza
Arguably this could also be seen as the effect of terrorism ("We'll stop bombing if you'll hand over... blahblah..."), but I think there's a bigger picture involved here, to which both sides are slowly coming to terms with, somewhat reluctant, but they don't have much choice.

no one coming to terms,they want only the all territory of israel ,and they wont stop,even abuala (palestinian chairman or smth) told that first gaza then all jerusalem

give me a break they don`t want peace.

i hope that it will be quit here after we pul out but its not going to happen

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no one coming to terms,they want only the all territory of israel ,and they wont stop,even abuala (palestinian chairman or smth) told that first gaza then all jerusalem
Do you mean Mahmoud Abbas?

Yeah, I saw him on the tv saying that. But you say like he's saying something strange?

Part of the peace-plan is handing over the West Bank to Palestine, I reckon.

Although there are no concrete solutions for Jerusalem, and Jerusalem will be a hard issue.

I'm wondering, as you said you'll agree to the withdrawal from the Gaza-strip if it promotes peace, are you willing to give up the West-Bank as well? (Jerusalem not included?

give me a break they don`t want peace.
And may I ask who you mean by "they" in "they don't want peace"?

Do you mean the Palestinians as a whole, the radicals like the Hamas,or the Palestinian government, the Israeli government or the Jewish settlers?

It's very easy to say "they", but in fact it's only a small few who are the evil ones.

(I don't mean this personally, so please don't get offended) It's just like saying every Israeli soldier on a bus is a potential terrorist.

Because almost all of them are not terrorists, and it's the same with Palestinians.

There are some (Hamas) that are bent on the destruction of Israel, that's very true, just like there are Israelians (Kach) who are bent on the destruction (or deportation) of Palestinians.

i hope that it will be quit here after we pul out but its not going to happen

No, there's still a very long way to go, and I hope I'll see a solution in my lifetime (I'm only 26), but I'm afraid it'll take a while until the people of the Levant can live together.

Everyone has the right to live in peace.

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