[saugatak]

@FDV, I figured out how to get Nero and VMWare working. It turns out that my laptop went into hibernation mode in the middle of running HFSLIP and I burned an incomplete ISO image After I ran HFSLIP again and made sure it was complete, no problems.

Here are some additional items that can be removed by editing FDV's fileset.

1. To remove WordPad (who's running Windows w/o running Word?), put a ; in front of the following entries in LAYOUT and TXTSETUP. This example is taken from LAYOUT. The numbers in TEXTSETUP differ but filenames are the same.

[SourceDisksFiles]

;wordpad.chm = 1,,31191,,,,,,3,3
;wordpad.exe = 1,,185104,,,,,,3,3
;wordpad.hlp = 1,,25770,,,,,,3,3
;wordpad.inf = 1,,6780,,,,,20,0,0

2. To remove the Accessibility Options from the Accessories folder in the Start Menu (never use 'em), put ; in front of the following files in SYSSETUP.IN_ [FDV provided most of the information plus some suggestions, which I tried out and this setup works.]

[StartMenuGroups]
;Accessibility = %accessibility%,0

[Accessibility]
;%magnifier% = magnify.exe,magnify.exe,,0,%magnifier_infotip%
;%reader% = narrator.exe,narrator.exe,,0,%reader_infotip%
;%screenkeyboard% = osk.exe,osk.exe,,0,%screenkeyboard_infotip%
;%utilman% = utilman.exe,"utilman.exe /start",,0,%utilman_infotip%

3. To remove Win2k's built in disk cleaner, put a ; in front of the following entry in LAYOUT and TXTSETUP. This example is taken from LAYOUT. The numbers in TEXTSETUP differ but filenames are the same.

[SourceDisksFiles]

;cleanmgr.exe = 1,,42256,,,,,2,0,0

Instead of using Win2k's cruddy diskcleaner, I suggest you use CrapCleaner (that's the real name ) instead. It's free and it's awesome. Get it at ccleaner.com

4. If you use a text editor other than notepad, you may want to remove Win2k's built-in notepad, which kinda sucks. Here's how:

a. Put a ; in front of the following entries in SYSSETUP.IN_

[Accessories]
;%notepad% = notepad.exe,notepad.exe,,0,%notepad_infotip%

[Files.NoWin31.System32ToSysroot]
;NOTEPAD.EXE

b. Put a ; in front of the following entries in LAYOUT and TXTSETUP. This example is taken from LAYOUT. The numbers in TEXTSETUP differ but filenames are the same.

[SourceDisksFiles]

;notepad.chm = 1,,24616,,,,,21,0,0
;notepad.exe = 1,,50960,,,,,2,1,0
;notepad.hlp = 1,,12566,,,,,21,1,0

5. If you have a real defrag utility (I have O&O and it's awesome) and never use Win2k's built-in defrag, here's how to get rid of it.

a. Put a ; in front of the following entries in SYSSETUP.IN_

[Infs.Always]
;dfrg.inf,DefaultInstall

[OleControlDlls]
;11,,dfrgsnap.dll,R
;11,,dfrgui.dll,R

b. Put a ; in front of the following entries in LAYOUT and TXTSETUP. This example is taken from LAYOUT. The numbers in TEXTSETUP differ but filenames are the same.

[SourceDisksFiles]

;defrag.chm = 1,,22354,,,,,21,0,0
;defrag.hlp = 1,,12855,,,,,21,0,0

;dfrg.inf = 1,,2429,,,,,20,0,0
;dfrg.msc = 1,,98304,,,,,2,0,0
;dfrgfat.exe = 2,,62224,,,,,2,0,0
;dfrgntfs.exe = 2,,76048,,,,,2,0,0
;dfrgres.dll = 1,,28160,,,,,2,0,0
;dfrgsnap.dll = 2,,42768,,,,,2,0,0
;dfrgui.dll = 1,,109328,,,,,2,0,0

P.S. 95% of these "tips" came from FDV.

@FDV, in going through your fileset, I noticed that you don't put a ; in front of the following entry which appears in both TXTSETUP and LAYOUT:

;welcome.exe = 1,,366864,,,,,1,0,0

Wouldn't it be a good idea to get rid of the "Welcome" file? Anyone who uses HFSLIP and your fileset doesn't need the Welcome to Windows tour.

I left the above entry alone because I thought you had a reason to keep it in since all the other entries associated with "welcome.exe" are commented out with a semi-colon.

This post has been edited by saugatak: 09 October 2005 - 07:38 AM

[tain]

What about this method: http://support.micro...om/?kbid=255771

Quote

In the [Components]section, add the following items based on which components you do not want installed:

accessopt=off
calc=off
cdplayer=off
certsrv_client=off
charmap=off
chat=off
deskpaper=off
dialer=off
fp_extensions=off
freecell=off
hypertrm=off
indexsrv_system=off
iis_pwmgr=off
media_clips=off
media_utopia=off
minesweeper=off
mousepoint=off
mplay=off
mswordpad=off
objectpkg=off
paint=off
pinball=off
rec=off
solitaire=off
templates=off
TSClients=off
vol=off

If some of these items should be installed, exclude the items from the Winnt.sif file.

Doesn't that accomplish the same thing, but easier?

[fdv]

saugatak - thanks for giving the info. i left welcome in because it's a sneaky way to get any binary you want to run, right off the bat! just make your EXE file with IEXPRESS, compress it, and replace the welcome.exe file that's already there. the thing is, i've never bothered with it, but for folks who want an easy automatic install, it's all arranged for you (you could have an EXE that installs a bunch of INF files or somesuch).

glad you got nero "fixed"

TAiN - this is completely possible. many of these don't get installed anyway. i comment files out because some folks who use my files insist on running without WINNT.SIF, the unattended file, in order to install special drivers at setup by hitting F6.

[Oleg_II]

saugatak
I just replace notepad with the other program:

1. First rename say Mark.exe to notepad.exe.
2. Run modifype notepad.exe -c.
3. Run makecab notepad.exe.
4. Place notepad.ex_ in FIX folder.

TAiN
Unfortunatelly not all components can be removed/not installed through winnt.sif.

fdv
I offered you to include all CHM and HLP files in DELFILES. I can help doing this (not in a couple of days of cause but I'll have more free time by the end of the week and I can do it in two days time.

OR
I can do the job with CHM and HLP files manually. But if somebody with scripting knowlege can help creating BAT or CMD file that can add comma before file-names taken from a file say COMMA.txt in txtsetup.sif and dosnet.inf. This way everyone can compile his own COMMA.txt with the files he wants to remove from the source.

I also suggested gathering more information about all components and corresponding files that can be removed from the source. If somebody removes a component he can also include corresponding files in COMMA.txt and run the new script removing the files.

This post has been edited by Oleg_II: 09 October 2005 - 11:00 AM

[tommyp]

Cool thread, thanks for starting saugatak.

FWIW, I did a task on seeing what services W2K actually needs. Here's what I have running.
Event Log
Plug and Play
Remove Procedure Call (RPC)
Workstation
Network Connections
Protected Storage
Remove Access Connection Manager
Telephony
Windows Management Instrumentation Driver Extensions

I'm sure some of the above services can be eliminated too, but the above list works fine for me. Maybe this will help slim down the source a bit more?

[tain]

@TommyP: The trusted resource for Win2K services info was BlackViper but his site appears to have disappeared.

I found a cache of it here: http://web.archive.o...blackviper.com/

Very useful info.

Here is what I have running:

Quote

Application Management
Event Log
Logical Disk Manager
Network Connections
Plug and Play
Print Spooler
Remove Access Connection Manager
Remove Procedure Call (RPC)
RunAs Service
Security Accounts Manager
Telephony
VMWare services (3x)
Windows Management Instrumentation Driver Extensions
Workstation

I should probably trim this down a bit...

[fdv]

help files
the question is, should i remove help files, like i used to in my SP4 fileset?
my thought is this: if you are ripping IE out, then you probably know how to use windows and don't need the built in help files. does nlite even offer this option? i have not used it since two versions ago.
i think we should go ahead on this. Oleg_II you have a PM from me.
i will put the help files into an INF so that users have a choice of installing them later if they want them.

services
this is going to be kind of a rant, so feel free to ignore. this is NOT aimed at anyone here, it's mostly me taking a poke at people in other forums who would throw out their printers so that they don't have to run the Print Spooler... but they run garbage like Internet Explorer.
here is the bottom line: what sucks up memory? DLLs!!
i recommend The Elder Geek -- this site actually lists people's experience with various settings.

i read in other forums about these so-called tweakers that, for example, shut off Fax Services and think they're allright -- guess what? if the Fax DLLs are on your hard drive, the shell will make calls to them... those DLLs are loaded in memory. "which services can i shut off on my machine that is bogged down with gigs of useless dlls anyway" has become a whole industry on its own with probably hundreds of web pages dedicated to the subject. and as for removing dlls? there are only three guys out there listed (paragraph four).

not much is running anyway if you use my fileset. (remember, manual without a "started" and disabled both mean the service isn't running). i use:

 
[size=1]
Computer Browser
COM+
DHCP Client
Distributed Link Tracking
DNS
Event Log
IPSec
Logical Disk Manager
Network Connections
Plug and Play
Print Spooler
Protected Storage
RPC
Removable Storage
Remote Access Conn. Manager
RunAs
Security Accounts
Server
System Event Notification
Telephony
TCP/IP Helper
Workstation
WMI
[/size] 

Messenger, Alerter, BITS, Remote Registry, Alerter, Indexing Service, Clipbook, NetDDE, RPC, QoS, Wireless, Smartcard, etc etc etc etc etc etc all of those are off (or not even there). you can even comment out COM and WMI in the SYSOC file before install and skip these, because Windows will run without COM and WMI. (there is software that needs them, but if you're a gamer or you don't use much software you go run without them. even the administrative stuff in windows will run fine without them.

services? meh, who cares, with my fileset the major resource hogs are all already off. i have a network, which right off the bat means i need a bunch of these like Computer Browser and Server and Workstation. RunAs - get rid of it? what am i going to do, logoff and back on as admin every time i want to install software?!

i read with some interest some suggested services to kill like Distributed Link Tracking Client. on a home machine, yeah, it would seem useless. i'm going to need to reboot a few times to see if it actually does save 4mb of memory. i can't see sparing any others, maybe Security Manager, but I have DHCP running, and there is a dependency there. TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper Service? mmkay try filesharing without it. i guess if you have a standalone machine running only games, dumping all of your services could make sense.

is that really the scenario for all these guys whose posts i read? they put a few shiny 512Mb sticks of Corsair in their Pentium 4 overclocked PC, but they act scared to actually put any of it to use. sure, they get a more responsive system, which is good for all of that number crunching they do simulating nuclear reactions and studying protein aggregation for curing diseases, but then they get a glitchy system that can't browse a network... and then they're on the 'net asking people why.
[/services rant off now]

This post has been edited by fdv: 09 October 2005 - 10:52 PM

[saugatak]

@FDV: Should this entry in SYSOC.IN_ be edited out?

AutoUpdate=ocgen.dll,OcEntry,au.inf,,7

Is this the Windows AutoUpdate program?

Also, in my FDV'd HFSLIP Win2k (with Notepad, Defrag, Cleanmgr.exe and WordPad removed), I noticed that the following programs normally found in a non-FDV Win2k were missing:

a. Start ==> Programs ==> Accessories ==> System Tools ==> Character Map

b. Start ==> Programs ==> Accessories ==> Paint

c. Start ==> Programs ==> Accessories ==> Calculator

I don't care that the above 3 programs are missing. I was just wondering if my edits to the FDV files had the unintended effect of removing the above 3 programs?

@Oleg_II: THANKS for the tip on Notepad. I am going to do as you suggested.

This post has been edited by saugatak: 09 October 2005 - 11:34 PM

[fdv]

saugatak, did you comment out from SYSOC the following line:
AccessUtil=ocgen.dll,OcEntry,accessor.inf,,7
or did you in any way alter accessor.inf?
have a look inside this INF; you can adjust what gets installed. i used my FDV files (of course) and paint and calc installed fine for me.

about AU... that's left on purpose. right now its a blank INF but in the future i might put automatic update in it (this is not the same as windows update). that's a big maybe. it has to get tested first and i haven't done that yet. you will find my experimental new version of au.inf viewable here.

[saugatak]

fdv, on Oct 9 2005, 10:31 PM, said:

saugatak, did you comment out from SYSOC the following line:
AccessUtil=ocgen.dll,OcEntry,accessor.inf,,7

Ooops! I am changing it back right now.

Quote

or did you in any way alter accessor.inf?
have a look inside this INF; you can adjust what gets installed. i used my FDV files (of course) and paint and calc installed fine for me.

I didn't touch accessor.inf. Just looked at it now. I agree with your choices there. All of the files you left untouched are useful or have co-dependencies. The only thing I'd do is use the method Oleg suggested to replace Win2k's built in Calculator and Notepad. If you have a real Paint program (which I don't) you might want to take out Paint but that's about it.

Quote

about AU... that's left on purpose. right now its a blank INF but in the future i might put automatic update in it (this is not the same as windows update). that's a big maybe. it has to get tested first and i haven't done that yet. you will find my experimental new version of au.inf viewable here.

OK I'll check it out.

P.S. I agree with you and Oleg that the help files are not needed and can go.

P.P.S. I read in the nLite forum that if you take out extra languages (one of my suggestions earlier), Office 2003 won't work right as it's built to use all the languagues M$ supports.

This post has been edited by saugatak: 09 October 2005 - 11:51 PM

[Oleg_II]

saugatak
Have a look at LANG folder - if you need any of languages from here just leave it alone (I leave only two CHS and CHT - Chinese Simplified and Chinese Traditional as I use both somethime And you can delete the rest of the folder LANG itself if you don't use these languages. It saves about 63MB.

As for the service Print Spooling - it takes about 3-5MB and I make it starting manual by default. And I have a few CMD files with shortcuts in Start Menu, one of them is Printing.cmd:

@echo off
MODE CON COLS=60 LINES=3
Title Printing the document
color 1e
net start "Print Spooler"
%programfiles%\"silex technology\PRICOM CX\JRMON.EXE"
goto :eof

When I click the shortcut "Printing" it starts Print Spooler service and I can print (it also starts my wireless printer monitor).

I also have the similar CMD for Scanning and I'm going to explore Internet connections too I'm not using printer, scanner or not in the net everytime on my laptop. I think it's a good idea to start services when you need them. Automatically of course

You can use the same technics starting VMWare and its services by only one click.

This post has been edited by Oleg_II: 10 October 2005 - 01:49 AM

[saugatak]

@Oleg

Are you talking abouth the LANG folder in the SOURCESS\I386 folder?

Just delete extra ones is your suggestion?

[Oleg_II]

Yes! If you don't need any of the languages just delete the folder LANG in SOURCESS.
And if you didn't know: you may saftely delete COMPDATA, WIN9XMIG, WIN9XUPG, WINNTUPG also.

[Oleg_II]

Acomplishing the task of commenting CHM files int txtsetup.inf I found that not all of *.CH_ files in the source are CHM in fact, there are a few files that have CHQ extention.

I found a usefull batch by Yzöwl that expands multiple files in a folder so that one can see the real extention.

This post has been edited by Oleg_II: 10 October 2005 - 11:25 AM

[saugatak]

Oleg_II, on Oct 10 2005, 07:41 AM, said:

Yes! If you don't need any of the languages just delete the folder LANG in SOURCESS.
And if you didn't know: you may saftely delete COMPDATA, WIN9XMIG, WIN9XUPG, WINNTUPG also.

@ Oleg. Thanks for the tip.

2 things:

1. I read somewhere in the nLite forum (can't find the post, they have their version of the 76 pages of posts also ) that Office 2003 requires all the languages. Do you know if there's any truth to this?

2. I get deleting unused languages from LANG. I presume WIN9XMIG and WIN9XUPG refer to upgrading from Win95/98/ME editions and that's not an issue for clean installs. I presume WINNTUPG is for upgrading from Windows NT and that's not an issue either, don't need it.

I don't know what the role of COMPDATA is, however. What do I lose by deleting it?

[saugatak]

MODIFICATION TO FDV FILESET TO REMOVE OS/2 SUBSYSTEM

FDV's fileset removes POSIX files, but leaves OS/2 subsystem untouched. At this point in time, I doubt too many people need the OS/2 subsystem.

I think this is the way to do it. I'll test it out tomorrow after the latest Windows updates come out tomorro and include them in my latest HFSLIP FDV Win2k and report back.

This link tells you which files need to be removed to get rid of OS/2 and POSIX.

http://arstechnica.c.../memory-1.ars/2

WINNT/system32 directory: OS2.exe, OS2SRV.exe, PSXSS.EXE, OS2SS.exe, and POSIX.exe

PSXSS.EXE and POSIX.exe are commented out in LAYOUT and TXTSETUP in FDVfileset, but the OS2 files are left alone. FDV, is there a reason for this?

In addition, there are the following files not mentioned in the above article:

WINNT\system32\os2\oso001.009
WINNT\system32\os2\dll\doscalls.dll
WINNT\system32\os2\dll\netapi.dll

I commented out all of the above OS2 files in LAYOUT and TXTSETUP as follows (example taken from TXTSETUP, same files as LAYOUT but numbers differ):

[SourceDisksFiles.x86]
;doscalls.dll = 1,,,,,,,8,0,0

;netapi.os2 = 1,,,,,,,8,0,0,netapi.dll

;os2.exe = 1,,,,,,,2,1,0
;os2srv.exe = 1,,,,,,,2,1,0
;os2ss.exe = 1,,,,,,,2,1,0

;oso001.009 = 1,,,,,,_x,6,1,0

What I found weird is that there are a bunch of files that appear to be related to the weird "oso001.009" file which appear in both TXTSETUP and LAYOUT

oso001.007 = 1,,,,,,_x,6,1,3
;oso001.009 = 1,,,,,,_x,6,1,0
oso001.010 = 1,,,,,,_x,6,1,3
oso001.012 = 1,,,,,,_x,6,1,3
oso001.016 = 1,,,,,,_x,6,1,3
oso001.029 = 1,,,,,,_x,6,1,3

These files look like they relate to the OS/2 subsystem ("6" is the key to OS/2) but aside from "oso001.009" I wasn't able to find any other file starting with "oso" so I left those alone.

[Oleg_II]

saugatak, on Oct 10 2005, 12:57 PM, said:

The only issue I see is that when you make so many mods to TommyP's and FDV's filesets, and then they come out with new ones, you have to make those mods again.

That is why I ask fdv if he agrees me doing the job with commenting CHM and HLP files - there are 400+ files to find and comment in 2 files and if he comes with the new version of files

As you suggest including some modifications proposed by users, I'd suggest making a plugin system - sub batch files that acomplish small but concrete purposes. For examle, fdv agrees me to comment out CHM and HLP but he wants to include an INF file that will install these files if needed (and I understand why - some people could ask him for this). It means the file names won't be included in DELFILES and the files will still in the source. And I would like to have a smaller source.

This example is very easy because I can still have a list of files and can include their names in DELFILES myself. But with a pluging system apart from a Basic set of IE removal files we may have a batch that could delete the files specified in say DELFILESPLUS from the source for those who want a smoller distributive There could be lists of files possible to delete and everyone can choose which of the list he would like to include in this DELFILESPLUS (for example, only CHM, only HLP or both types).

This post has been edited by Oleg_II: 10 October 2005 - 01:37 PM

[Oleg_II]

COMPDATA - is just a folder with TXT and HTM files. I don't know exactly what are they for but I don't think they are functional.

LANG - I don't know about issues with M$ Office as I don't use it I use Open Office. But don't think there should be issues either. I know for sure that Office 97 and Office 2k hadn't any issues with this folder as I installed a few laptops in our office with these versions and they are working now using 3 different languages.

I heard (I don't know for sure, just read about it somewhere) that one of the folders is needed for installing Recovery Console. Sorry no more info. I don't install Recovery Console too - I use DOS version of Drive Image that can be run directly from W2k and reboot to DOS utility (it's a part of big software, I use only 7 files from the package and don't install it at all

[saugatak]

Here are some links on Office 2003 and the language problem. It appears that if you remove languages, you have difficulties autoupdating Office 2003.

The fact that I can't use AutoUpdater doesn't concern me since I am using FDV's fileset. I'm wondering if not having all the languages will prevent manual hotfixes to Office 2003, i.e., download the hotfix, extract it and run it.

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showto...20updates&st=10

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showto...04&#entry402004

http://www.msfn.org/...showtopic=41553

[tommyp]

You can remove tons of junk from the mdac too. I wrote a script to yank it off the source, which I typically run after running nlite. I based this script from something I read a while back... the pre-nlite days. I attached the file. It's a destructive process.... because it deletes files from the sourcess folder. To run, place this file alongside the hfslip.cmd file and run it. It creates a folder called optional and puts all the crapola there.

Attached File(s)

•  z4_mdac.cmd (8.29K)
  Number of downloads: 27

This post has been edited by tommyp: 10 October 2005 - 02:44 PM