Jump to content

Stripped down 98 DOS?


azagahl

Recommended Posts

Is there a way to strip down 98 SE so its nothing but a DOS shell?

I'm using Win2K now and it's not very compatible with some DOS games I'd like to run

(for example, Tyrian 2000). I tried DOSBox emulator but it's ridiculously slow, even though my

CPU is Athlon 64 3400+. The best way to run DOS games seems to be to dualboot 98, but I

only need the DOS portions from it.

Is a stripped down ME a better idea? Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Hi azagahl.

Is there a particular reason why you want to run your DOS games via Win98? Seems to me like you're better off just creating a small FAT16 partition and using a third-party bootmanager to boot straight to DOS 6.22 or 7. Or am I missing something?

By the way, that game you mention looks pretty neat. Reminds me of an Amiga game I played way back when (can't for the life of me remember what that one was called though...)

Cheers

Edited by nil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

DOS in Windows 98 comprises of the stuff in the windows\command, along with command.com, himem.sys, emm386.exe, setver.exe from the windows directory, along with IO.SYS, mscdex.exe

You essentially need only IO.SYS, these drivers, your cdrom driver and a command processor. A mouse would be handy.

In config.sys, put DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO . The NOAUTO tells windows to use the paths, and not to autoload the junk. Hunt down a program at powerload:

http://oldfiles.org.uk/powerload/download/3xStart.exe

This patches the dos7.1 to load windows 3.1, and a few other proggies. They also have an "MS-DOS 7.1" diskette, suitably modified in this way.

The rest of the DOS configuration is then straight Windows.

EDIT from Windows 2k/XP will work under MS-DOS. It's not hard to find.

You can add a bootsector for the MS-DOS partition to the NTLDR Boot Menu, by using something like bootpart.exe at http://www.winimage.com/

The thing would then be useful enough to not only run your game, but run some other utilities, such as partition-magic, ghost, etc.

W

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've thought about this for a while. Just using SYS to install IO.SYS and COMMAND.COM is too easy.

What I want is the best installation of DOS 7.1 I can get, excluding all non-DOS files. The point is to have a nice 9x DOS environment for playing DOS games when I'm not using Win 2K.

So, Windows\smartdrv.exe should be retained, but Windows\notepad.exe should be deleted.

I tested a bunch of exes in the windows directly manually and unexpectedly found several that are usable from DOS mode. The logos are still usable. There are also a lot of windows\*.txt files that pertain to DOS usage. The WAV's are still usable (I have a DOS-compatible sound card) but not of much value really.

I think to do this I will install

98 SE

98 SE USP2.02

98SE2ME

olddos.exe and dossup.exe (I can't remember the names exactly, but I have these two DOS 7.1-related packages from Microsoft's ftp site)

3xStart?

XXCOPY?

I could go crazy installing lots of nice tools like savepart, Ranish partition manager, NANSI, etc.. AVGFreeEdition's boot-time anti-virus scanning could be installed, though this would have to happen before Windows support is removed since the installer is Windows-only.

Then I will clean out irrelevant files.

Is anyone else interested in this? Or has someone done this sort of thing before? I am not sure how to distribute the results of the work. Just a TXT file listing the relevant files might be useful. Maybe a BAT file doing the work would be good. Is osbetaarchives is a better place to discuss this?

Edited by azagahl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The DOS from microsoft Win98, with assorted fixes etc, should fit onto a floppy disk, prehaps two. Treat the package as if it were MS-DOS 6.22 or something.

You can then add what you want.

For a minimal install, i suppose someone could write an install batch that simply wrips the stuff out of a Win98 install, and then patches the stuff.

W

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In config.sys, put DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO . The NOAUTO tells windows to use the paths, and not to autoload the junk.

Could you expand on the NOAUTO a little? ie. what paths, and what wont it autoload. Will it just boot to a command prompt, then you type "win" to fully load the windows GUI or something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you use NOAUTO, io.sys does not look in the Windows directory to find and load himem.sys, etc.

Its main use is to allow you to use different switches etc with HIMEM.SYS, EMM386 &c, although you can use a replacement memory manager. QEMM does not work here, because it is not Win9x compat.

If you want to set up a system that either boots DOS or DOS + Windows, you do it something like this. For a floppy-disk or cdrom boot, it is best to have Logo=0 here.

;MS-DOS 7.10 System Configuration File
;(C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1981-1999

[Options]
AutoScan=0
BootDelay=2
BootGUI=0
BootMenu=0
BootMulti=0
BootSafe=0
BootWarn=0
DoubleBuffer=0
Logo=1
SystemReg=0
;
;For compatiblity with Windows 9x GUI only:

[Paths]
WinDir=.
WinBootDir=.
HostWinBootDrv=C

;
;=====================================
;MS-DOS 7.10 System Configuration File
;(C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1981-1999
;=====================================
;
;XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
;XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
;

You then have a config.sys like this. You could stick all the stuff into a DOS directory, but if you are multibooting DOS versions, it is better to split off the drivers (which are version independent).

device=c:\msdrv\himem.sys
device=c:\msdrv\vide-cdd.sys /d:mscd0001
dos=high,umb,noauto
lastdrive z
shell=c:\command.com c:\ /p
rem INCLUDE THIS IF YOU WANT TO RUN WIN9X
rem IFSHLP.SYS from any version of Win9x.
device=c:\msdrv\ifshlp.sys

You move the drivers into the directory. The Win98SE is the latest version. WinME version just updates the version number.

You can run Windows 3.1 and Windows 98 from the same session, although the Win98 exit is a reboot. You could run Win95 from this DOS as well. (Yes, i done all of this).

For these, you need a batch file that does something like this. You simply change what gets added to the path, and launch windows from the %windir% directory.

@echo off
:: Run Windows 3.1
set oldpath=%PATH%
path %PATH%;c:\win31;c:\win31\utils;
c:
cd \win31
win
path %OLDPATH%
rem this fixes a prompt-bug in MS-DOS 7,1
cd \

For Windows 3.1, you need to apply the W31Start.exe patch, (which patches Windows 9x to run Win3.1 as well), along with this fix to win31\system.ini, to allow Windows to run in machines with lots of memory:

In [386Enh], create or set PageOverCommit=2

Wendy

Edited by os2fan2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What did Microsoft do(probably on purpose) to stop win3.1 from running under dos7.1, I take it this is known as their is a fix out.

Also does anyone know what MS has done to stop hex editing of the WinMe (dos 8) IO.SYS. Can it be unpacked or is it enccypted?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lots of code in programs like io.sys and win.com is simply deactivated, for reasons that if it ain't broken, don't fix it, and so that it could be activated.

While the DOS in Windows 9x is meant to be there for compatibility mode, the idea is that the need for it is being progressively being withdrawn. DOS in Windows 9x is primarily a loader for Windows, but it *can* run old DOS stuff with a bit of effort.

MS-DOS 7.0 introduced support for long file names. Even so, this is a new direction for DOS, and Windows 95 is intended to co-exist with a previous DOS. This is why it supports dual boot, and its DOS is pretty much compatible with previous releases of DOS. Users at the time would have had many DOS / Win31 stuff. The fat32 driver was drvspace3, included in P!us95.

MS-DOS 7.1 introduces support for fat32 partitions, and larger drives. At this time, one might expect patchy support for DOS, and the dual boot mode is less-well supported. None the same, some parts were made into dead code, which *could* be activated by a simple hex edit. I think in practice, the way MS-DOS 7.1 works is that it has to be fed cookies in the right order to activate the DMPI server, and Windows 3.1 does not do that. A simple patch to the files fixes this.

MS-DOS 8.0 is more intended to simply load windows, and separate DOS mode is not supported here. In fact, it has two different command.com and io.sys, and most of the utilities are either straight string-edits on the MS-DOS 7.1 stuff, or actually run under 7.1. Since this DOS is intended to support just one application (windows), it is more written to be in essence, a windows driver, rather than a standalone OS. None the same, you can defang this DOS too, but even defanged, it still won't run Windows 3.1.

MS-DOS 7.1 will work without doing the 3xStart patch, but you can't run lots of things. And if all you really want to do is run some kind of Win9x, then the MS-DOS 8.0 is the way to go. Yes, MS-DOS 8.0 will load Win95. But if the intent is to have a DOS that can run DOS stuff, and load Windows, then MS-DOS 7.1 is the option to look for.

What did Microsoft do(probably on purpose) to stop win3.1 from running under dos7.1, I take it this is known as their is a fix out.
There are several fixes. I use the 3xStart.exe fix, personnally.
Also does anyone know what MS has done to stop hex editing of the WinMe (dos 8) IO.SYS. Can it be unpacked or is it enccypted?

DOS 8.0 is no more encripted than DOS 7.1. It just does not have the code there. It automatically loads himem functions inside io.sys. The himem.sys is a string-hacked version of the Win98 one, and in WinME is about as useful as a choclate teapot.

While DOS 8 is not really good as a general purpose MS-DOS, it makes a much better loader for Win9x than eithe MS-DOS 7.0 or MS-DOS 7.1.

I may be wrong but is there not a option to start dos only from win98 then you had

to use this cmd to start window

C:\>win

I have not use that os in a few years but it was sort of like the above cmd.

If you load to either the command prompt, or use BootGUI=0, you can start windows by the win command.

The point of the current exercise is to recreate a modern version of MS-DOS 6.22, which we need the string hack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MS-DOS 7.1 will work without doing the 3xStart patch, but you can't run lots of things.

odd, The only application people have told me that has not worked is win3x, what other dos programs don't work in dos7.1.???

Every dos game and applications I have used since 1991 on Dos 5 all work 100% on realmode Dos7.1.

DOS 8.0 is no more encripted than DOS 7.1. It just does not have the code there. It automatically loads himem functions inside io.sys. The himem.sys is a string-hacked version of the Win98 one, and in WinME is about as useful as a choclate teapot.

I want to open Windows Me DOS 8 IO.SYS file with an hex editor to change some ASCII strings (which is possible in Dos7.1 Io.sys), but the file seems to have been compressed with an unknown (for me) utility. It's compressed because it has half size than previous versions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QEMM does not work here, because it is not Win9x compat.
Actually QEMM 8.0x and 9.0 [last one] releases are [or should be] compatible with all Win 9x builds, according to the Quarterdeck docs.

This also depends which of QEMM extra "features" one uses.

If used strictly as a plain EMS/XMS memory provider, without using any of the "stealth" modes or "advanced" switches, QEMM 9.0 should be almost 100% compatible with all Win 9x builds.

I believe QEMM 9.0 is still available here [4.8 MB]:

http://downloads.planetmirror.com/pub/dv/qemm97.zip

Make sure to read the install guide in info#2.txt .

I've been experimenting with QEMM 9.0 on Windows 95 OSR2.1, 98, 98SE and ME, and worked great most of the time.

This is the config.sys line I was using:

DEVICE=C:\QEMM\QEMM386.SYS X=F000-FFFF I=B000-B7FF RAM AU BE:N DM=128 HA=240 MA=128 TA=32

More info:

http://www.mdgx.com/newtip20.htm#9SMM

Please see also MEMORY.TXT, part of W95-11D.EXE [1.25 MB]:

http://www.mdgx.com/95.htm

W95-11D.EXE also contains autoexec.bat + config.sys files with examples of use for QEMM 9.0 and 2 text files [DOS9XMEM.TXT + WIN9XMEM.TXT] with MEM/A/C/P stats while using QEMM both in native MS-DOS and in a DOS box.

Hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

This has already been done, more or less. Here you go:

How to get MS-DOS 7.0 from Windows 95 or Windows 98

If you want to minimize disk space requirements, you could try deleting the Windows folder (or just not copying it). Or you could use 98Lite to install a minimal installation of Windows 98 SE (98micro). That way you'd also be able to run Windows 98 SE if you ever need to. BTW, 98lite is able to produce a stripped-down Win98SE that takes up less than 50 MB. That's less disk space than many software packages require!

:D

Phil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...