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How to boot/install from USB key ?


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#301
iceangel89

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hi,

i am thinking of doing a boot from HDD, but yes i think some may think its a bit impossible that since i do not have much experience doing such things... but hope some1 can give me a guide here?

jaclaz, nice to see u helping me so much, but maybe its better to have "guides" instead of reading hundreds of posts... but still it helps, or try to tell me which post ;)

Edited by iceangel89, 11 August 2007 - 06:37 AM.



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#302
Legolash2o

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thx been looking for this

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#303
iceangel89

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can some1 tell me how to do this? or which post/page has the answer?

reading through so many posts and cant seem to get anything done

#304
jaclaz

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can some1 tell me how to do this? or which post/page has the answer?

reading through so many posts and cant seem to get anything done



Links to the most relevant posts (link already given, here):
http://www.boot-land...?...ic=2807&hl=
are in this post :
http://www.msfn.org/...opic=99453&st=3

Last one is here:
http://www.msfn.org/...o...1384&st=293


Eventually, and that means WHEN everything will be found to be working and it will be tested, ilko_t will publish a complete guide, but there is NO "road-map" established, it may happen in the next 15 days as well as in the next 15 months, this procedure is something experimental and everyone contributing to it do so in their spare time, so please, do not ask for a release date, just wait and check back once in a while or experiment with info already provided.
Check this:
http://www.msfn.org/...o...1384&st=273

By the way, it is rather amazing how at this moment the thread had 51,818 views and the number of people that have actually contributed or gave a useful feedback can be counted on fingers without taking one's shoes off.... :whistle:
To provide a solution that works on the most hardware we need some people that test the procedure on their hardware and report problems or success.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 13 August 2007 - 04:13 AM.


#305
wimb

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The automatic making of a bootable USB-stick for Install of Windows XP using prepare2.zip was tested.
Collecting files in a Virtual Disk and file editing with Fedit.exe are very handy in this approach :)

Fresh and Repair Install of Windows XP from the bootable USB-stick was realised successfully,
after some modifications in the _prepare.cmd file as described below:

For my version of XP it was necessary to remove the :all option in the winnt32.exe command.
Otherwise in making the LocalSource I get Error messages for missing files: tabletpc.cab and mediactr.cab

The /h /k option is not valid in the copy command, but gives no problem.

MakeBS3.cmd .... was replaced by CALL MakeBS3.cmd ....
in order to see the messages and to return to the following statements in the _prepare.cmd ;)

It is interesting to integrate also CALL MkMigrateInf of cdob for giving the USB-stick drive letter U:
because without it the USB-stick gets the unwanted drive letter D:
and consequently the drive letters of other partitions on the harddisk are changing.

Fedit.exe was used in _prepare.cmd to make
the for the Repair option necessary change in the presetup.cmd of BTS DriverPacks.

The btinifix4.cmd was made ready for unattended install by removing the pause and the YES confirmation.

I think the automatic approach is very worthwhile and removes the previous risc of someone forgetting
to reset boot.ini after the winnt32.exe command, resulting after reboot in an unexpected install of Windows XP.

Edited by wimb, 18 August 2007 - 03:12 AM.


#306
ilko_t

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Hi wimb :)

Here are some results in my tests:

For my version of XP it was necessary to remove the :all option in the winnt32.exe command.
Otherwise in making the LocalSource I get Error messages for missing files: tabletpc.cab and mediactr.cab

It's tricky, if :all is not used some folders are not copied, e.g. when preparing MCE and GUI setup will complain about missing files/folders. If it is used some files cannot be found by WINNT32 as it is looking at the wrong place for them, for example test with DELL XP Home SP2:
Here is part of TXTSETUP.SIF:

[SourceDisksFiles]
.......
startoc.dll = 100,,,,,,,32,0,0
startoc.inf = 100,,,,,,,20,0,0
startoc.cat = 100,,,,,,,,3,3
startoc.cab = 2,,,,,,_x,,3,3

Part of LAYOUT.INF:

[SourceDisksFiles]
.............
startoc.dll = 100,,22016,,,,,32,0,0
startoc.inf = 100,,109098,,,,,20,0,0
startoc.cat = 100,,167601,,,,,,3,3
startoc.cab = 2,,8672998,,,,_x,,3,3


And part of DOSNET.INF

[Files]
...........
d1,startoc.dll
d1,startoc.inf
d1,startoc.cat
d2,startoc.cab


startoc.cab is the only file, not found by WINNT32, and it's the only 1, which differs from others in it's source description. Why they did it like that I have no idea, however I'd rather make a note of the files not found and manually copy them after _prepare.cmd, than not copying whole folders (:all switch).
On generic XP SP2 situation is fine, no funny files or folders, but with different sources we can expect all kind of errors, because of the many ways OEMs integrate their stuff and WINNT32 fails to replicate the exact CD structure.

The /h /k option is not valid in the copy command, but gives no problem.

That was xcopy before, forgot to remove redundant switches :blushing:


MakeBS3.cmd .... was replaced by CALL MakeBS3.cmd ....
in order to see the messages and to return to the following statements in the _prepare.cmd ;)

Told you I am newb with scripts, didn't know how to avoid that :rolleyes: Thanks.

It is interesting to integrate also CALL MkMigrateInf of cdob for giving the USB-stick drive letter U:
because without it the USB-stick gets the unwanted drive letter D:
and consequently the drive letters of other partitions on the harddisk are changing.

Here is tricky too, please read the results with USB hard disk bellow. USB stick getting C: is a good indication that something is wrong and stick will be rendered non bootable during TXT Setup because is seen as first disk- abort setup. If it's preset to U: you will not get that. Better fix drive letters later.

Fedit.exe was used in _prepare.cmd to make
the for the Repair option necessary change in the presetup.cmd of BTS DriverPacks.

The btinifix4.cmd was made ready for unattended install by removing the pause and the YES confirmation.

Would you attach the edited files please.

I also added simple check if winnt.sif don't exist on source not to use /unattend switch:

IF EXIST %instpath%\i386\winnt.sif (
%instpath%\i386\winnt32.exe /noreboot /makelocalsource:all /syspart:%tempdrive% /tempdrive:%tempdrive% /unattend:%instpath%\i386\winnt.sif
) ELSE (
%instpath%\i386\winnt32.exe /noreboot /makelocalsource:all /syspart:%tempdrive% /tempdrive:%tempdrive% 
)
If you can make it better please add it as well in the files to be attached.
-------------------------------

Some results with USB hard disk- unfortunately I couldn't make it work without deleting source files. USB hard disk is seen as first disk and gets letter C:, dispite the fact it's listed as second in list and TXT Setup attempts to place boot files on it. If it's write- protected by migrate.inf SETUP complains about damaged hard drive D:

Setup has determined that Drive D: is corrupted and cannot be repaired

Same behavior was desribed in post #130 , when in mixed SATA/IDE environment USB stick is seen as first bootable device, this was fixed by disabling IDE controllers or removing attached devices from them, but here I had only 1 IDE hard disk and the USB one.

Remove the write- protection form migrate.inf- no more complains, but all boot files go on USB disk and the files being copied to destination are deleted from source.
Make USB disk U:- same story.
Tests made with 2 different USB-IDE adapters and IDE disk as destination- same results.

Because the files deleted during TXT Setup are from ~LS folder I tried to keep ~BS for the TXT part and force Setup to look for source files in other folder- I386 copied on USB disk. This articles give some clues:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/150497
http://technet2.micr...3.mspx?mfr=true

I have tried to change TXTSETUP.SIF to
[SetupData]
SetupSourcePath = "\"
SetupSourceDevice = \device\harddisk0\partition1
MajorVersion = 5
MinorVersion = 1
Also \ to \i386, with and without quotes and spaces to no avail- "Setup cannot format the hard drive- CD is damaged" meaning cannot find files on source destination. TXTSETUP.SIF is in root and in I386.

WINNT.SIF:
[Data]
Autopartition=0
UnattendedInstall="Yes"
floppyless = "1"
msdosinitiated = "0"
OriSrc = "\device\harddisk0\partition1\i386"
EulaComplete="1"
winntupgrade="no"
win9xupgrade="no"
Win32Ver="a280105"
uniqueid="C:\WINDOWS\JAL"
OriSrc="\device\harddisk0\partition1"
OriTyp="3"
unattendswitch=yes
sourcepath = \device\harddisk0\partition1\i386
floppylessbootpath=\Device\HardDisk0\partition1
[SetupData]
OSLoadOptionsVar="/noexecute=alwaysoff"
SetupSourceDevice = "\device\harddisk0\partition1"
floppyless = "1" and msdosinitiated = "0" were tried in all combinations, some funny lines were added to experiment, actually in over 20-30 attempts to change/remove lines I had no luck. No idea if it's by design like that or am missing something. May be Setup detects that has not been started from RIS ignoring paths and keeps searching for files in ~LS folder.

Another dumb idea- copied the contents of CD on USB disk, leave boot files to invoke SETUPLDR.BIN and amend WINNT.SIF and TXTSETUP.SIF(copied on root and I386) for other source paths- no luck again- BIOSINFO.INF cannot be found in ~BT folder, so it's either hard coded when booted from hard disk to search there, or I am missing something.
I am taking a break from USB hard disks for now, at least until someone gives better ideas.
May be a way to make USB hard disk seen as removable? AFAIK this could be done by using driver patching on the fly the removable bit which seems too hard for the purpose, or I am wrong?


Regards,
ilko

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#307
wimb

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Hi ilko :)

From your experiments with Install of windows XP from bootable USB-harddisk,
I understand that in this case the problems are rather complex and perhaps difficult to overcome.
For the moment it is indeed better to focus on using the bootable USB-stick for this purpose,
and we are lucky that everything is working so well for the USB-stick :thumbup

When the :all option is used in the winnt32.exe command,
I can simply manually overrule the missing of tabletpc.cab and mediactr.cab for my case of XP Professional.
We might also introduce the :all option as a user selectable option for use with different XP sources.

When the LocalSource was made with option :all, I had no problems during the install of Windows XP.

The use of MkMigrateInf.cmd might also be a user selectable option,
so that for simple cases the advantage of drive letter U: for the USB-stick is available.
But I agree with you that this must not be the default choice,
because you explained quite well the disadvantage of using always U: for the USB-stick.

As attachment you will find prepare3.zip with the slightly modified _prepare3.cmd and binifix4.cmd
The EXIST winnt.sif Check that you made, is also included in the _prepare3.cmd :)

Regards,

wimb

Attached Files



#308
wimb

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Hi ilko :)

The batch program for making a bootable USB-stick for Install of Windows XP,
was further improved and renamed to usb_prep.cmd ( see attachment ).

Now User options with choice of Source and Target Drive are selectable at the beginning in a Start Menu.

MkMigrateInf2.cmd of cdob was slightly edited so that it is available as a Selectable option
using a CALL from the batch program.

Some more security checks on drives and files were also included.

The type of XP Source being either Home / Professional OR Media Center/Tablet PC Edition
is selectable and determines the :all option in the winnt32.exe command for making the LocalSource.

I found some handy sites with a lot of information for making batch programs:

http://www.ss64.com/index.html
http://www.robvander....com/index.html
http://www.microsoft...h.mspx?mfr=true
http://www.allenware.com/
http://www.computerhope.com/batch.htm

Regards,

wimb

Attached Files



#309
cdob

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@ilko_t and wimb
to prepare3, haven't tried usb_prep.cmd yet.
Congratulations, does work as builded.
Windows installation files are perpared in vitual disk and copied to USB drive.
Installation does work. Windows does boot. No files are delete at USB drive.

But allow me to play the bad guy (a sophisticated end user, the worst customer):
Next I installed windows at folder c:\windows51. First reboot failed.
Obviously boot.ini at USB stick dosn't match:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="GUI Mode Setup" /FASTDETECT

This failed:
\$WIN_NT$.~LS\$OEM$\CMDLINES.TXT
[COMMANDS]
"binifix4.cmd C:"
Do I use false files? How to run binifix?.cmd at end of textmode setup?
First reboot should work at c:\windows51 too.

Another example:
c:\boot.ini
d:\windows
How to support this? Do we restrict to c:\windows only?

Three suggestions to _prepare.cmd:
Ask temporary image size in megabytes
I prefer OS internal solutions. Third party tools if internals fail. Use fsutil instead of fsz. Fsutil.exe is a default XP application.
format /Q: Quickformat

ECHO Please enter temporary image size in MB, according to your source size:
ECHO e.g.: 600
SET /P imgsize=

ECHO.
ECHO closing existing virtual drives if any...
vdk.exe remove

REM to be improved...
IF EXIST tempimage.img (del tempimage.img) ELSE echo tempimage.img was not found, creating a new one...
set /a imgsize*=1024*1024
fsutil.exe file createnew tempimage.img %imgsize%

...

ECHO temprary drive created, lets format it
ECHO.
format %tempdrive%: /FS:fat32 /v:TempDrive /Q

In addition there is a undocumented 'format /Y' as YES. A end user dosn't have to confirm format.
Contrary a end user might select a false drive by accident.
Don't use 'format /Y'. A end user has to confirm format always.


USB stick get C: too, if you use a brand new hard disk (no partitions).
If need be you don't have to use U:, another letters are possible too.
A third parameter goes to migrateinf.cmd

#310
ilko_t

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Hi cdob,

Next I installed windows at folder c:\windows51. First reboot failed.
Obviously boot.ini at USB stick dosn't match:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="GUI Mode Setup" /FASTDETECT

Can you think of simple way to adjust boot.ini on stick to match everyone's needs? May be if we include in usb_prep.cmd questions like "do you plan to install XP in folder other than default \WINDOWS?", "do you plan to install it on partition/disk other than first hard disk, first partition" and amend BOOT.INI on stick accordingly?
My opinion is this way of installing Xp from USB requires some user intervention, adjusting to one's specific needs. May be some info could be displayed about this issue in usb_prep.cmd. Another way is to revert back to Grub4Dos and invoke NTLDR on hard disk, in this case mapping should be used, which restricts us in the same way, because of the different drive/partition numeration. So we'd need to amend menu.lst, instead of BOOT.INI on stick. Can't think of any other way to avoid that.

This failed:
\$WIN_NT$.~LS\$OEM$\CMDLINES.TXT

[COMMANDS]
"binifix4.cmd C:"
Do I use false files? How to run binifix?.cmd at end of textmode setup?

Is binifix4.cmd in the same folder as cmdlines.txt? Did it start at all? Any backup files in C: of boot.ini?

First reboot should work at c:\windows51 too.

As long as BOOT.INI on USB stick points to that path.

Another example:
c:\boot.ini
d:\windows
How to support this? Do we restrict to c:\windows only?

I don't foresee issues with that, other than adjusting BOOT.INI on stick to partition(2) and changing WINDOWS to whatever it would be. BOOT.INI on hard disk is created by TXT Setup and only rdisk value adjusted by binifix.cmd to -1.

Three suggestions to _prepare.cmd:
Ask temporary image size in megabytes
I prefer OS internal solutions. Third party tools if internals fail. Use fsutil instead of fsz. Fsutil.exe is a default XP application.
format /Q: Quickformat

ECHO Please enter temporary image size in MB, according to your source size:
ECHO e.g.: 600
SET /P imgsize=

ECHO.
ECHO closing existing virtual drives if any...
vdk.exe remove

REM to be improved...
IF EXIST tempimage.img (del tempimage.img) ELSE echo tempimage.img was not found, creating a new one...
set /a imgsize*=1024*1024
fsutil.exe file createnew tempimage.img %imgsize%

...

ECHO temprary drive created, lets format it
ECHO.
format %tempdrive%: /FS:fat32 /v:TempDrive /Q

In addition there is a undocumented 'format /Y' as YES. A end user dosn't have to confirm format.
Contrary a end user might select a false drive by accident.
Don't use 'format /Y'. A end user has to confirm format always.

Nice to see that option in fsutil.exe :) Thanks :thumbup

USB stick get C: too, if you use a brand new hard disk (no partitions).
If need be you don't have to use U:, another letters are possible too.

My point was that seeing that stick gets C is clear indication to abort SETUP, if it's preset you won't see that, it's not about available drive letters. Your point about non partitioned hard disk is valid, on first though what about if we delete MountedDevices key during GUI SETUP, thus forcing XP to re-enumerate the letters at first logon? Need to study this option further, or just use migrate.inf as you say, and find another indication that something is wrong- abort setup.

A third parameter goes to migrateinf.cmd

Sorry, I didn't get that. You changed mkmigrate.inf to include an option what letter to be given? Would you attach it please if it is so.

@wimb- good job :thumbup

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#311
wimb

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@cdob
Install of XP Windows from the bootable USB-stick
next to WINDOWS on the same or on a different partition of the harddisk,
was realised successfully by proper manually adjustment in advance of the BOOT.INI file of the USB-stick.

Ilko_t already indicated that for Install on the second partition,
adjusting BOOT.INI on stick to partition(2) is sufficient, and I can confirm that.

So these non-standard installs are still possible,
but require only small changes in the BOOT.INI on the stick in advance.

For a brand new harddisk it is always advisable to reboot the computer after creating partitions with TXT mode Setup.
So in this case one boots twice in the TXT-mode Setup, so that after the reboot drive letters get their correct value.

It is a very good idea to use fsutil.exe instead of fsz.exe and to use QuickFormat of the TempDrive.

When making the TempImage, the binifix4.cmd is written in winnt.sif as [GUIRunOnce] command,
and so it should be removed from your CMDLINES.TXT

@ilko_t
MigrateDrive is set in MkMigrateInf2.cmd fixed at U:
but can also be set to a different value by giving in the CALL a third parameter e.g. R:
But in the Setup procedure a fixed value of U: in MkMigrateInf2.cmd seems OK to me.

Edited by wimb, 22 August 2007 - 09:29 AM.


#312
Hitman47

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I created a bootable WinXp sp2 USB pendrive using the 'usb_prep.zip' posted 3 posts above. The usb drive was created perfectly without any errors. Some of my parameters i selected are:

i started the usb_prep.cmd and did this:

1: type as [home/prof]
2:copied all folders/files from winxp cd to a forlder 'd:\winxp' and selected it as source
3:virtual temp drive as v:
4:target usbdrive as k:(as shown in my computer )

My pendrive is Transcend Jetflash JF V30 / 2GB (and formatted before this procedure)

all steps went properly, all files copied to usb without error , at the end i selected for SATA Hdd

Then after making this usb drive i restarted my PC and selected USB as first boot device. The usb drive is detected by BIOS. After the POST, the PC attempts to boot from USB but nothing happens, it waits there for 2-3mins with all the previous POST messages on display and then proceeds to boot from the HDD.

Why doesnt it boot from USB when everything i did is correct???

#313
ilko_t

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My pendrive is Transcend Jetflash JF V30 / 2GB (and formatted before this procedure...

That's the important part, how did you format it, from within XP using XP format? What file system?
Try formatting it using PEtoUSB or HP Format tool, links are in this thread or use GOOGLE. In the archive attached in post #294 PEtoUSB is included.
When you format it copy on USB stick ONLY ntdetect.com, NTLDR from your XP source, and create BOOT.INI in USB stick root:

BOOT.INI
[Boot Loader]
Timeout=10
Default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[Operating Systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="TEST" /FASTDETECT 
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINDOWS="TEST 1" /FASTDETECT


Start the PC and if you see the menu, your stick is ready- format it again and use usb_prep.cmd
PEtoUSB has an option for LBA, use it first, if doesn't boot use without that option.
HP format too can format in FAT16 and FAT32- find which one works for you.

Edited by ilko_t, 22 August 2007 - 12:08 PM.

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#314
wimb

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Why doesnt it boot from USB when everything i did is correct???

Everything seems correct, except maybe for the way of formating the USB-stick.
Did your computer boot already from this stick e.g. in MS-DOS ?
Or is there a general problem that your computer cannot boot from the stick ?

Try the HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool Version 2.0.6 and use FAT filesystem, without DOS startup.
Then you get a stick with MBR and Partition with NTLDR Bootsector, which refers to NTLDR that uses BOOT.INI

Info: http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=20089

Create MBR, Partition and Format USB_stick using HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool Version 2.0.6
http://download.chip...0.6_176935.html

Edited by wimb, 23 August 2007 - 02:22 AM.


#315
Hitman47

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Thanks for your super quick help :rolleyes:

I previously formatted using XP's format tool.
Now i formatted using PEtoUSB tool and voila!!!! it booted from USB :) though after that 2-3 mins wait time

Thanks again for ur support

I have some questions:
Q1. As there is an option for SATA HDD in usb_prep.cmd, i wonder, whether this USB XP installation will work on computers with both IDE and SATA hdds??? Because some of my PCs have IDE(PATA) Hdd while some have SATA Hdd?

Q2. I had read somewhere before that 'Repair' Installation of WinXP is troublesome using this method??. As many times I have to just make 'Repair' rather that full reinstall when my systems go corrupt.

Q3. Can i use an external USB HDD(with two partitions on it) instead of USB Stick???. Like using first partition for these installation files and second partition for carrying normal data??

Edited by Hitman47, 22 August 2007 - 01:52 PM.


#316
ilko_t

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Glad it worked for you. If this delay is at start you might update your BIOS and/or disconnect any other USB devices, try on different USB ports (use the ones on the back of the motherboard), play with the BIOS setting about USB- legacy support, USB 1.1/2.0 etc.

Q1- usb_prepare.cmd has nothing to do with SATA/IDE drivers, it just transfers your SOURCE to the USB stick in suitable format. If the source has drivers for the SATA controller- it will install properly. BTS mass storage drivers pack is advisable to be used.

Q2- in the tests so far REPAIR works fine, as long as the installation was made using the methods described here and binifix.cmd. The only way to break that function is if BOOT.INI on hard drive doesn't have the required line.
Example:
Typical BOOT.INI:
[Boot Loader]
Timeout=30
Default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[Operating Systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /FASTDETECT
Repair won't work, because it points to rdisk(0), when launched from USB stick the hard disk installation will appear as rdisk(1), rdisk(0) is the USB stick.

If you simply add

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="USB Repair Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /FASTDETECT

that will be enough for TEXT mode setup to find the installation and display repair option. Naturally if installation is on the first hard disk, first partition.

This functionality is present in binifix.cmd, which is used when SETUP is done using the method, described here- no need to add the line.

Edited by ilko_t, 22 August 2007 - 02:04 PM.

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#317
donkiekong55

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That's the important part, how did you format it, from within XP using XP format? What file system?
Try formatting it using PEtoUSB or HP Format tool, links are in this thread or use GOOGLE. In the archive attached in post #294 PEtoUSB is included.
When you format it copy on USB stick ONLY ntdetect.com, NTLDR from your XP source, and create BOOT.INI in USB stick root:

BOOT.INI

[Boot Loader]
Timeout=10
Default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[Operating Systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="TEST" /FASTDETECT 
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINDOWS="TEST 1" /FASTDETECT


Start the PC and if you see the menu, your stick is ready- format it again and use usb_prep.cmd
PEtoUSB has an option for LBA, use it first, if doesn't boot use without that option.
HP format too can format in FAT16 and FAT32- find which one works for you.


Hi :hello: i set my bios to boot from usb and everything and then i followed these instructions to test to see if i could boot from the usb stick. However, after POST, a j appears with a blinking cursor that just sits there, and the boot menu never shows up. i tried reformating the usb stick and trying again with the different options in PEtoUSB and also tried with the HP USB Disk Format tool but the same thing happens. any suggestions on what to do?

i really appreciate all the work that you guys put into making these batch files and i would like to try them out sometime. :D

Thanks in advance

#318
wimb

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Hi Ilko

The HP_USB_Boot_Utility.exe V2.0.6 download (2024 kB) from
http://download.chip...0.6_176935.html
gives after install two small program files in the DriveKey folder.

HPUSBFW.EXE is a portable Windows version (432 kB) and HPUSBF.EXE is a CMD-line program.

An EndUser might copy PeToUSB.exe and/or HPUSBFW.EXE in its own usb_prep folder.

It is possible to provide a command at the beginning of usb_prep.cmd
for launching the USB-stick Format program, so that one can use automatically
the right type of Format program in the automatic preparation of the usb-stick.

PeToUSB.exe is more safe and most suitable for this purpose, because it cannot format USB-harddisk !

Regards,

wimb

Edited by wimb, 23 August 2007 - 01:02 PM.


#319
ilko_t

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Hi :hello: i set my bios to boot from usb and everything and then i followed these instructions to test to see if i could boot from the usb stick. However, after POST, a j appears with a blinking cursor that just sits there, and the boot menu never shows up. i tried reformating the usb stick and trying again with the different options in PEtoUSB and also tried with the HP USB Disk Format tool but the same thing happens. any suggestions on what to do?

i really appreciate all the work that you guys put into making these batch files and i would like to try them out sometime. :D

Thanks in advance

Hi, please read these links:
http://www.911cd.net...o...aded&start=
http://home.graffiti...SB/USBfaqs.html FAQs 4,5 and 10
http://home.graffiti...B/USBstick.html

If you don't get your answer please post here your Motherboard model, USB stick model and details, BIOS settings you've tried, files system and tools you've tried.



Hi Ilko

The HP_USB_Boot_Utility.exe V2.0.6 download (2024 kB) from
http://download.chip...0.6_176935.html
gives after install two small program files in the DriveKey folder.

HPUSBFW.EXE is a portable Windows version (432 kB) and HPUSBF.EXE is a CMD-line program.

An EndUser might copy PeToUSB.exe and/or HPUSBFW.EXE in its own usb_prep folder.

It is possible to provide a command at the beginning of usb_prep.cmd
for launching the USB-stick Format program, so that one can use automatically
the right type of Format program in the automatic preparation of the usb-stick.

PeToUSB.exe is more safe and most suitable for this purpose, because it cannot format USB-harddisk !
The Attachment contains usb_prep.cmd with AUTOSTART of PeToUSB.exe

Regards,

wimb

As you know USB boot is still very badly implemented in different BIOSes/Motherboards, so it will be impossible to rely only on one or another tool or file system. In my opinion one needs to find out what suits his needs and makes stick bootable.
What we can do is just to include several tools in the archive (as long as T&C allow) and possibly add some info in the script or here as short guide, the rest is improvising and experimenting.


edit: @Hitman47- seems you edited your post while I posted mine- about question 3- please read post #306, it is on this page, short answer is no (yet), at least not using the methods described here. You could have Bart PE on USB hard disk and start setup from there, or just use DOS and WINNT.EXE, without modifying the source at all. Don't forget smartdrv.exe for faster transfer. Good info how to install from DOS is in this thread.

Edited by ilko_t, 23 August 2007 - 01:31 PM.

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#320
donkiekong55

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Hi, please read these links:
http://www.911cd.net...o...aded&start=
http://home.graffiti...SB/USBfaqs.html FAQs 4,5 and 10
http://home.graffiti...B/USBstick.html

If you don't get your answer please post here your Motherboard model, USB stick model and details, BIOS settings you've tried, files system and tools you've tried.


Hi, ilko_t. Thanks for the reply.
i've tried the suggestions in the first two links but still no success. I read through the third link but i got confused cause i don't understand all of the weird terms and many numbers and how the guy knew what to fix in the "MBR and boot record" (as i don't have much computer knowledge :blushing: )

anyway i thank you guys for helping me, but i think i'm gonna give up. lol. i just wanted to try this cause it looked interesting. :rolleyes:

btw. just in case you wanted to know what i tried: Motherboard- Asus K7v; USB stick- no name brand (just says micro center); BIOS settings- i enabled usb legacy support and usb function and for boot options i tried USB FDD and USB ZIP (I couldn't find anything else in the BIOS that said USB); File system- FAT, FAT32, and the LBA thing?; Tools- PEtoUSB, HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool, and USB Drive Key Boot Utility

again Thanks for helping :D

#321
ilko_t

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donkiekong55, your motherboard uses VIA KX133 chipset which is too old and even doesn't support USB2.0, I doubt you can do anything. Even if you make it boot from USB stick it will be painfully slow. On a MB with slightly newer chipset- VIA KT266 I had no luck booting from USB.

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#322
jaclaz

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btw. just in case you wanted to know what i tried: Motherboard- Asus K7v; USB stick- no name brand (just says micro center); BIOS settings- i enabled usb legacy support and usb function and for boot options i tried USB FDD and USB ZIP (I couldn't find anything else in the BIOS that said USB); File system- FAT, FAT32, and the LBA thing?; Tools- PEtoUSB, HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool, and USB Drive Key Boot Utility

(bolding is mine)

This appears case 4. of FAQ #10:

motherboards that ONLY boot from USB media formatted as “Superfloppy” (a drive formatted as to have no MBR, but directly the BOOTSECTOR as Sector 0)


Besides the other consideration about speed, even if you format the stick as Superfloppy, such behaviour will NOT work for NT/2K/XP/2003 as NO ARCPATH is generated, the problem has been discussed at length on Dietmar's thread, but unfortunately no solution/workaround has been found (yet):
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=14181

The only viable solution is (possibly) through the use of makebootfat "special" MBR, but it appears that noone ever tested this (or reported findings):
http://www.911cd.net...o...13784&st=44

It seems like we are in some kind of CATCH22 here, noone with a "Superfloppy only" motherboard has the technical abilities/time/will to experiment, whilst noone that has the latter has a "Superfloppy only" motherboard to experiment with. ;)

jaclaz

#323
ilko_t

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Hi jaclaz :)

I hope you had/having a good holiday.

Here are a few more pieces to the bootsectors puzzle.

Stick set as fixed using Hitachi driver.
Formated with PEtoUSB FAT16X. After Winnt32 stick boots fine.
Formated with XP format FAT16. Winnt32.exe used- stick won't boot. Put MBR made by PEtoUSB, leave bootsector (which has been changed by WINNT32.EXE) alone- stick becomes bootable again.

Another interesting (at least for me) thing- the only difference in bootsector apart from volume serial if stick is formated by XP and seen as removable (won't boot) or fixed by Hitachi driver (will boot) is seen here. MBRs are the same. Change the 00 to 80 on seen as removable stick and it boots fine. No need to use Hitachi driver anymore. It might be helpful for your lovely scripts to make any stick bootable while formated as removable, as long as this can be confirmed in other setups.
Posted Image

I also can 99% confirm that XP format doesn't always rewrite MBR, as I see it it checks just some parts of MBR and if they are fine skips rewriting.
See the differences between F6_FAT32_fixed_XP MBR and FAT32_Fixed_XP MBR.

Please find attached MBRs and bootsectors made using HP tool FAT16 and 32. Both boot fine before WINNT32, only FAT16 boots fine after WINNT32.
No error messages at all when it doesn't boot, just blinking cursor in the top left corner of screen.

Regards,
ilko

edit: mistyped MBR/bootsector

Attached Files


Edited by ilko_t, 24 August 2007 - 07:14 AM.

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#324
jaclaz

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Hallo, Ilko_t.

Some updates, I was successful in booting recreated virtual hard disks from your previously posted files, so I can confirm that it must be something outside the bootsector/MBR.


Another interesting (at least for me) thing- the only difference in MBR apart from volume serial if stick is formated by XP and seen as removable (won't boot) or fixed by Hitachi driver (will boot) is seen here. Change the 00 to 80 on seen as removable stick and it boots fine. No need to use Hitachi driver anymore. It might be helpful for your lovely scripts to make any stick bootable while formated as removable, as long as this can be confirmed in other setups.

I doubt the above, sorry. :(
Try resetting the usual, say first 100 sectors, to F6 and try formatting the stick under XP WITHOUT the Hitachi Microfilter Driver..... :whistle:

I just checked the files in your last post, and again, there is no reason in them why they shouldn't boot.

A few ideas for you to test (for the FAT32 ones):
1) Try, after the WINNT32 (and thus on a stick that it is not booting) to copy over the bootsector a "BootSector_Before.dat" generated before (when the stick was booting ok)
2) Try changing the "spare" bootsectors found on sector 6 with a copy of the current one, theoretically if the two bootsectors
3) Check this:
http://www.boot-land...?showtopic=1647
maybe from comparing the outputs of findpart with the various options on the stick "before" and "after" one could find some other difference that might matter :unsure:

jaclaz

#325
ilko_t

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Lexar 1GB
WinHex- fill whole drive with F6
Unplug stick, plug it back in and format FAT32 using XP format. Copy ntldr, ntdetect.com and valid boot.ini- "disk error, press any key to restart"
Change 00 to 80- goes in a loop, showing briefly "invalid boot.ini, booting from c:\windows" then restarts.
To play with the hidden sectors and boopart seems to take much time for my very little knowledge in this matter, giving up (grrr) with this MBR/bootsector puzzle.
3 MBRs for FAT32 formated by XP and stick removable, produced 3 different MBRs- one after F6, another if stick is formated before by PEtoUSB and the third don't even remember how was it formated before to result in another different MBR. That makes for me too many unknowns in the equation.

1) Try, after the WINNT32 (and thus on a stick that it is not booting) to copy over the bootsector a "BootSector_Before.dat" generated before (when the stick was booting ok)

As far as I remember this makes the stick bootable again.
Thanks for your guidance so far :)

Edited by ilko_t, 24 August 2007 - 08:46 AM.

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