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How to boot/install from USB key ?


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#26
porear

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Getting close. First, some info.

The format and info for winnt.sif is indeed the same as for unattend.txt.

Oempreinstall is not really valid for what we are trying to do. It is used during unattended install to setup other vendor and install-specific programs and drivers during install. These are placed in a setup $oem$ folder. From the deployment tools help file,

Syntax OemPreinstall = Yes | No
Yes
Setup copies the subfolders and files contained in the \platform\$oem$ folder.

No
Setup does not copy these files.

I followed the steps again from the previous post, only this time I removed migrate.inf, but not winnt.sif

1. Run a setup by E:\I386\winnt32.exe /noreboot /makelocalsource
2. Format USB drive with PeToUSB (but did not copy any build files - format only)
3. Copy directories C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT and C:\$WIN_NT$.~LS to the USB drive (takes a while)
4. Copy the following from C:\$WIN_NT$.~BT to the USB root \

TXTSETUP.SIF
NTDETECT.COM
SETUPLDR.BIN

5. Rename SETUPLDR.BIN on the USB root to NTLDR
6. Delete migrate.inf from \$WIN_NT$.~BT on the USB drive

Things work fine. The problem now is, that during install, as the extra files created in step 1 by the /makelocalsource switch are copied to the hard drive, they are deleted from the USB stick.

I am sure there is a switch to prevent this, but for now I've got to run out to dinner. It looks like the solution will lie in the TXTSETUP.SIF file.

Edited by porear, 11 November 2006 - 08:11 PM.



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#27
jaclaz

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To avoid the problem of steps 4 and 5 above, you can try using Grub4DOS to chainload SETUPLDR.BIN directly.

This would give you also more options when booting, say, access to a DOS or Linux boot, etc.

All you need to do is copying to the root of the stick grldr (from the grub4dos package), rename it to NTLDR and add a menu.lst with this entry:

# This loads SETUPLDR.BIN in /$WIN_NT$.~BT
# from the current root (the device you booted from)
chainloader /$WIN_NT$.~BT/SETUPLDR.BIN

Get grub4dos here:
http://grub4dos.jot.com/WikiHome

Search posts by me on 911cd forum with text "grub4dos" for some examples and tips.

Things work fine. The problem now is, that during install, as the extra files created in step 1 by the /makelocalsource switch are copied to the hard drive, they are deleted from the USB stick.

GOOD! :)
I'll have a look too if I can find a way to avoid deletion of that....

jaclaz

#28
porear

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To avoid the problem of steps 4 and 5 above, you can try using Grub4DOS to chainload SETUPLDR.BIN directly.

Thanks I might give Grub4DOS a shot. I've used BootitNG for multibooting USB before and was expecting to try it. I was trying to establish a working standalone project before adding the other boot loader, but maybe I should go ahead and add that piece now.

Thanks! :)

#29
porear

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Ugh. I am trying my best to only vary one thing at a time but somehow another detail slipped through, and I'm not sure how I got past it before. When setup copies the files from the USB to the HD, it sets up the next boot from the HD for the GUI portion of setup to continue. This is done in boot.ini on the HD.

When installing from the USB stick, it thinks the USB is HD0, and that the HD being installed to is HD1. So, the new boot.ini entry is

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional"

when removing the USB stick to reboot for Windows GUI setup, your HD becomes HD0, so the boot.ini entry needs to be

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional"

for it to work. Another minor detail. I would think this could either be fixed by

1. config setting during setup to explicitly state what the boot.ini entry should be, or
2. at the end of text setup run a simple batch or command file that edits boot.ini, or
3. use a USB drive boot manager to make sure the HD on which Windows will be installed is always seen as HD0 by the USB drive, which can then be assigned HD1 (or HDx)

I don't know which of these are possible or which would be simplest. I truly believe this issue and the USB setup file deletion at copy are the last two hurdles (but I could be wrong?) :unsure:

#30
jaclaz

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When installing from the USB stick, it thinks the USB is HD0, and that the HD being installed to is HD1.

Yep, that is what made me ask before which letter was assigned to the HD, booting from the stick automatically makes it first drive.

2. at the end of text setup run a simple batch or command file that edits boot.ini,

If the drive lettering ( C: ) of the hard drive is correct, thus should be the easiest solution.

Please find here a small batch and some useful info to that effect:
http://www.msfn.org/...topic=66101&hl=


3. use a USB drive boot manager to make sure the HD on which Windows will be installed is always seen as HD0 by the USB drive, which can then be assigned HD1 (or HDx)


You can try using Grub4DOS to map the stick as another HD or even FD, something along the lines of:
map --read-only (hd0,0)+1 (fd0)
chainloader (fd0)+1
rootnoverify (fd0)
boot
maybe mapping it as read-only will prevent deletion of the files.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 13 November 2006 - 06:10 AM.


#31
porear

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Yep, that is what made me ask before which letter was assigned to the HD, booting from the stick automatically makes it first drive.

You're right. I apologize, I'm trying to be as correct as possible in working this out but I keep making errors. :( The best I can guess is that maybe I left migrate.inf in place and it somehow took care of the drive mapping, but not sure.

At least this seems to be a problem that won't be too hard to overcome. Thanks very much for the help and the tips, I'll give the batch file and the Grub4DOS ideas a look. I've been trying to read up on TXTSETUP.INF to see if somewhere in all the ,,,,s in the syntax of the [SourceDiskFiles] section there is a setting that would prevent file deletion after copying, but have not found such yet. The read-only mapping might be the thing to do. This stick doesn't have a hardware write lock switch on it.

Thanks again, I'm still on the job...

#32
porear

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Still stuck with the same two issues.

I'm using GRUB4DOS now (great tool!) but when I tried the boot entry you suggested, I still got a boot.ini that pointed to the wrong disk, and the files were still being deleted from the USB stick. I think the --read-only switch only applies to grub-install, but the loader didn't complain about it being there.

I have also tried various permutations of mapping

map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)

with no success.

Although GRUB will recognize this re-mapping for booting, won't the Windows setup still always assume that it is being run from HD0 regardless?

I have not yet experimented with the batch files for re-writing boot.ini. Thanks!

#33
jaclaz

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porear, sorry, I modified my previous post, the Grub4Dos entry I posted was wrong, can you try with the new one?

Also, cdob appears to have joined in the "game", I am crosslinking to the other thread:
http://www.msfn.org/...topic=81788&hl=

jaclaz

#34
porear

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Hello, cdob, welcome.

Well, I tried the revised boot entry, but got this:

Booting 'Boot WinXP Setup from USB'

map --read-only (hd0,0)+1 (fd0)
FAT16 BPB found with the starting 0xEB (jmp) confirmation.
probed C/H/S = 246/255/63, probed total sectors = 3963841
chainloader (fd0)+1

Error 26: Disk read error

I also tried mapping (hd0) to (fd0) without specifying the partition as in (hd0,0) but still got Error 26.

I tried

map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
rootnoverify (hd1)
chainloader (hd1)+1
but that did a double swap (or maybe no swap at all? same result) and I ended up booting my hard drive instead of the USB.

However, when I tried (this is where it gets interesting)

title Boot WinXP Setup from USB
map --read-only (hd0) (hd1)
rootnoverify (hd1)
chainloader (hd1)+1
boot
it made it. I booted successfully from the USB setup, files were copied, the machine rebooted, and the GUI part of setup began. Unfortunately it stopped soon after, and a dialog box popped up looking for files

Files needed

The file 'asms' on Windows XP Professional Service pack 2 CD is needed.

Type the path where the file is located and then click OK.

Copy files from

and the list box was pre-populated with

GLOBALROOT\DEVICE\HARDDISK1\PARTITION1\$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386

the only other choice in the list box was A: So, I could not continue at this point.

Next interesting thing: The boot.ini contains

[boot loader]
timeout=1
default=signature(76c076b)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
signature(76c076b)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
Lastly, the files are still being deleted from the USB stick as they are copied.

Edited by porear, 13 November 2006 - 04:41 PM.


#35
porear

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In case it helps here is the setuplog.txt that was created.

Attached Files


Edited by porear, 15 November 2006 - 07:09 PM.


#36
jaclaz

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Hmmm, I think that you are getting really close :).

The fact that in boot.ini the "signature" syntax is used should mean that the drive is recognized as a "peculiar" one, but this, as I see it, is a good thing.

You can check the Disk (and stick) signature with MBRFIX or MBRWIZARD:
http://www.sysint.no...ting/MbrFix.htm
http://www.sysint.no...ting/MbrFix.zip
http://home.graffiti...z:graffiti.net/
http://home.graffiti...X/mbrfix0.2.zip

The
title Boot WinXP Setup from USB
map --read-only (hd0) (hd1)
rootnoverify (hd1)
chainloader (hd1)+1
boot

should work as follows:

You map the stick (booted from, and thus first drive, or hd0) to second drive hd1, then you boot from it.

The question is how is "mapped" the internal hard disk drive and how is this seen by windows setup?

The reference to

d:\xpsprtm\base\ntsetup\syssetup\

should mean that (if I get it correctly the \xpsprtm directory is on the stick) the mapping is correct, i.e. the stick gets letter "d:".

On the other hand, the fact that the reference to

GLOBALROOT\DEVICE\HARDDISK1\PARTITION1\$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386

gives the missing file error, should mean that by this part of the setup the stick is NOT seen as second drive (HARDDISK1) but probably as first one (HARDDISK0)

One thing you could try is the following:

title Boot WinXP Setup from USB
map --read-only (hd0) (hd2)
map (hd1) (hd0)
rootnoverify (hd2)
chainloader (hd2)+1
boot

most probably you will have the same behaviour, but the box list could be "populated" by

GLOBALROOT\DEVICE\HARDDISK2\PARTITION1\$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386

instead.

Also, can you post (attaching it) the migrate.inf file you get when you prepare the stick with WINNT32.EXE?

I still have the "feeling" that the solution could be there.... :huh:


jaclaz

#37
porear

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migrate.inf is attached.

Not sure but thought maybe winnt.sif or sysprep.inf could play a part...

Thanks!

Attached Files


Edited by porear, 14 November 2006 - 10:02 AM.


#38
porear

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This does not seem to be a true hard disk drive letter mapping. I've not been able to find the \xpsprtm directory during setup, so I am assuming this is some "virtual" location that may be created on-the-fly. When searching the 'net, I only find instances of this sequence logged as mapped to d:\ ??

should mean that (if I get it correctly the \xpsprtm directory is on the stick) the mapping is correct, i.e. the stick gets letter "d:".

At this point the stick isn't even plugged in. The stick was pulled out of the machine when rebooting into the GUI setup, because otherwise we would be booting to the stick and starting text setup over again.

We could create another entry in GRUB to get around this and selectively boot to the hard drive, but then we would have to add specifics about the installation to the boot entry, such as which hard drive and directory the text setup installs to. This limits desired flexibility in the install to say that you must always install windows on x drive in y directory so that the GRUB entry will be correct.

Our problems stem from trying to jump start an install in the middle of the usual process. Once the GUI setup begins, it assumes that the text setup has created $WIN_NT$.~LS on the hard drive and that any files it needs will reside there.

Instead, our $WIN_NT$.~LS is on the stick, but the GUI part of setup running from C:\WINDOWS doesn't know it. I don't know if the GUI setup initially loads USB drivers such that it would see the stick anyway.

Does this enumeration scheme begin at 0 or 1?

GLOBALROOT\DEVICE\HARDDISK1\PARTITION1\$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386

because if it needs to be HARDDISK0 it might also need to be PARTITION0.

So I think the tasks at hand are:

Find a way for the GUI setup to see the stick
Point the GUI setup to the stick for the $WIN_NT$.~LS\I386 directory
Find a way to stop deletion of files from the the as they are copied in text mode setup

The other question would be whether the stick could be inserted and recognized after GUI setup start, or if we would have to boot around it in the BIOS sequence with GRUB on the stick.

Also as an FYI, found this about the signature syntax in boot.ini
http://support.micro...com/kb/q227704/

Thanks again for all the time and help! :)

Edited by porear, 14 November 2006 - 10:14 AM.


#39
jaclaz

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hmmm, more research to do....

About:

At this point the stick isn't even plugged in.

I am clearly missing something:
where is the $WIN_NT$.~LS directory, if not on the stick? :unsure:


I assumed that the syntax of

GLOBALROOT\DEVICE\HARDDISK1\PARTITION1\$WIN_NT$.~LS\I386


would be similar to the BOOT.INI one, where first disk is 0, but first partition is 1, byt I may be wrong.

To better analyze the contents of your migrate.inf, can you do the following ?:
1) Download on the computer you used WINNT32.EXE the DSFOK here:
http://members.ozema...eezip/freeware/
2) unzip it, open a command prompt in the directory and run the VLM tool like VLM > VLM.TXT
3) from the same command prompt run mountvol >> VLM.TXT
4) post (attach) the VLM.TXT

There might be a relationship between the drive signature and the entries in migrate.inf aka entries in the Registry or however another way to "couple" migrate.inf drive letter assignments to the fixed hard disk.

I'll post what I can find or if some other idea comes out.

jaclaz

#40
porear

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I am clearly missing something:
where is the $WIN_NT$.~LS directory, if not on the stick?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The $WIN_NT$.~LS directory is on the stick, but the stick is removed between text setup and reboot for GUI setup.

The sequence is

Boot USB stick into text mode setup on USB stick via GRUB4DOS
Run text mode setup from USB stick which copies some setup files to C:\WINDOWS on hard disk
Remove USB stick
Reboot, booting from C: into GUI mode setup from C:\WINDOWS
Replace USB stick
Failure when $WIN_NT$.~LS\I386 isn't found for more files needed by GUI setup.

May have missed the right combination, but was not able to then find the stick by changing the numbers in HARDDISKx\PARTITIONy

So either $WIN_NT$.~LS\I386 needs to be copied to the hard drive that Windows is being installed onto at the end of the text mode setup (inefficient and time consuming), or somehow the GUI mode setup needs to be able to acccess the USB stick, which I have yet to achieve. I am not certain if at initialization the GUI setup loads USB drivers or not.

My VLM.TXT is attached. Thanks!

Attached Files

  • Attached File  VLM.TXT   1.69KB   25 downloads

Edited by porear, 15 November 2006 - 08:41 PM.


#41
cerdar

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Yes,i had meet the same program
There is no such thing as genius;it is nothing but labor and diligence.

#42
porear

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Wow. I don't believe it, but I THINK its working!!! This was without migrate.inf.

After text mode finished, at the reboot, I went into my BIOS and changed the sequence so the hard drive would be the first boot device, and left the USB stick in. It booted to the hard drive, began GUI setup, found the stick, and did not even prompt me for the \I386 files - it saw them.

For now, this seems like the remaining work:

1. The problem still remains that some of the files are deleted from the stick as they are copied during text mode setup.

2. Make another GRUB entry so that at boot you could choose between "Part 1 Text Mode Setup" and "Part 2 GUI Setup" in GRUB to point to the USB stick and the hard drive respectively. (I know its simple but I'm green on GRUB and haven't gotten it to work yet).

Bonus: It would be nice to have some type of toggling script on the stick for GRUB4DOS that would boot the stick the first time and the hard drive the next.

Edited by porear, 14 November 2006 - 10:53 PM.


#43
jaclaz

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2. Make another GRUB entry so that at boot you could choose between "Part 1 Text Mode Setup" and "Part 2 GUI Setup" in GRUB to point to the USB stick and the hard drive respectively. (I know its simple but I'm green on GRUB and haven't gotten it to work yet).

Bonus: It would be nice to have some type of toggling script on the stick for GRUB4DOS that would boot the stick the first time and the hard drive the next.


This should be possible using the "default" file and the savedefault directive in a "cross-linked" manner, I'll have a look in the matter.

jaclaz

#44
porear

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Edit: savedefault was broken in GRUB but is now working after updating to a later version (0.4.2 pre11 dated 10-2006). The following accomplishes the desired toggle. I am not very familiar with GRUB, if there is a more correct way to boot XP from the hard drive on the GUI entry (or the USB boot), someone please jump in.

color black/cyan yellow/cyan
timeout 10

default /default

title Phase 1 WinXP Text Mode Setup
map --read-only (hd0) (hd1)
rootnoverify (hd1)
chainloader (hd1)+1
savedefault 1
boot

title Phase 2 WinXP GUI Mode Setup
map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)
rootnoverify (hd1)
chainloader +1
savedefault 0
boot

Item of note: to make things easier, I installed GRUB4DOS using WinGRUB. However, to get the latest version, I downloaded a later version of GRUB4DOS and copied the newer GRLDR file onto the stick.

To make savedefault work, it is necessary to copy the file DEFAULT from the GRUB4DOS installation files to the root of the stick.

The last issue still eludes me. Attached is a file listing of those files that are deleted from the stick during the text mode setup phase. The newer GRUB honors the --read-only switch. So, Windows setup now says it cannot copy those files - I guess it considers the copy a fail if it cannot delete the source file. The answer to this one will probably be on the Windows side of things.

Attached Files


Edited by porear, 15 November 2006 - 07:29 PM.


#45
porear

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The key to the file deletion problem should be TXTSETUP.SIF. I'm looking for a definitive description of the TXTSETUP.SIF syntax.

Edited by porear, 15 November 2006 - 11:08 PM.


#46
jaclaz

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GOOD! :)

A quick small correction:

title Phase 2 WinXP GUI Mode Setup
map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)
rootnoverify (hd1)
chainloader +1
savedefault 0
boot

is exactly the same as:

title Phase 2 WinXP GUI Mode Setup
rootnoverify (hd1)
chainloader +1
savedefault 0
boot


The key to the file deletion problem should be TXTSETUP.SIF.


Yes, there must be somewhere a directive "keeep all files".... :huh:

jaclaz

#47
porear

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map (hd1) (hd0)
map (hd0) (hd1)
rootnoverify (hd1)

is exactly the same as:

rootnoverify (hd1)

I really thought so too - but when I tried the second entry, it boots into text setup on the stick :unsure: When instead trying rootnoverify (hd0) with no mapping, I reboot back into GRUB.

I've been playing the with numbers between all the commas in the TXTSETUP.SIF entries in the [SourceDisksFiles} section. Changing the tenth digit to a 3 stops the file from being deleted, but it also stops it from being copied. :wacko:

One... more... detail...

Edited by porear, 16 November 2006 - 10:46 AM.


#48
jaclaz

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I really thought so too - but when I tried the second entry it did not work. ?


hmmm, very strange, however, if it works with the double exchange, let it be! :)


Changing the tenth digit to a 3 stops the file from being deleted, but it also stops it from being copied.


Well, according to this:

http://www.msfn.org/...showtopic=14852

the 3 would mean "do not copy", most probably it means "ignore".

It seems like I cannot find a "proper", i.e. complete TXTSETUP.SIF howto, I am trying to put tohether all bits of info I can find...., but at the moment nothing that can resolve the file deleting problem.

More info on gosh's pages:
http://gosh.msfn.org/txtsetup.htm

jaclaz

P.S.: about:

Item of note: to make things easier, I installed GRUB4DOS using WinGRUB. However, to get the latest version, I downloaded a later version of GRUB4DOS and copied the newer GRLDR file onto the stick.


Though possible, as you made it, to install grldr.mbr to the MBR and copy GRLDR to the stick, it is not the "recommended" way, as the MBR code is (of course) different from "standard" NT/Win2K/XP2003 MBR code, it is possible (and there were reports abut this) that the motherboard BIOS won't boot from it.

The recommended way is to prepare the stick with the HP tool under Win2K/XP/2003 WITHOUT telling it to put DOS files in the key, or however format the key under the same OSses in a manner to have the bootsector of the primary partition that invokes NTLDR.
Then either:
1) copy to the stick NTLDR and a boot.ini with an entry :

C:\GRLDR="Grub 4 DOS"

or
2) copy to the stick grldr and RENAME it as NTLDR

Edited by jaclaz, 16 November 2006 - 11:30 AM.


#49
porear

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I edited the previous post to give more detail about what happened when I tried to remove the swap mapping. Without it, rootnoverify (hd0) boots GRUB on the stick, and rootnoverify (hd1) boots to the ntldr loader on the stick.

I have tried in vain as well to find any detailed TXTSETUP.SIF documentation.

Thanks for the tips about how I've installed my GRUB. I did not know this was an issue. My stick boots fine this way on my machine, but I would rather go with a reliable method that will cause the least problems.

I'll try what you suggest, it sounds very straightforward. For creating a stick that boots looking for ntldr, I think all we would need to do is format the stick with PeToUSB instead of the HP tool.

Thanks again!!! :)

Edited by porear, 16 November 2006 - 01:11 PM.


#50
jaclaz

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I'll try what you suggest, it sounds very straightforward.


You must thank Spacesurfer, that found this way to cut some corners:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=18031


Without it, rootnoverify (hd0) boots GRUB on the stick, and rootnoverify (hd1) boots to the ntldr loader on the stick.


I checked on some other posts/howto, you are right, the exchange takes place.
To make sure, you can try from a Grub4dos command line, repeating the same commands one by one, and use "root" instead of "rootnoverify", Grub4dos should put on screen a brief message describing the partition it "rooted" too.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 16 November 2006 - 01:52 PM.





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