98 SE SP 3.19

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98 SE SP 3.19 Mar 11, 2013 Rate Topic: 1 Votes

#2241 PROBLEMCHYLD

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:51 PM

loblo, on 21 March 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

PROBLEMCHYLD, on 21 March 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Thank you

I rest my case. :w00t:

What case? :angel

Enough of that insanity for me anyway. :puke:

The case you haven't prove otherwise :w00t:

You are a Win ME user. You are not going to reproduce the same bugs as Win98 users. With 98lite, 98SE2ME SP3 and all the software I have on my system installed etc.... I said KEX breaks my software not my operating system. Get in tune. I will say it again, I will not install it on my main system. You are not going to take the time to fix the damages on my system. Like I said, if it ever becomes stable, I might give it a test run on my main system. until then I rest my case because you haven't proved otherwise, that KEX runs with ALL of the apps I posted. I had nothing else better to do, other than picked some random software I used and said KEX was the problem. You really are naive. If thats the case then, I need a life. And back then there wasn't a SP with NT files so that is not the case. Thank you very much (Elvis) voice.

#2242 Drugwash

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:05 PM

Guys, you're funny. :lol:

If you all stop making assumptions and just go with facts and explanations where necessary, there wouldn't be so much wasted web space. :whistle:

But on the bright side, this discussion got me relaxed, because I got so aggravated today when the guy next door put my aunt's stuff into the washing machine at 70°C regardless of the colors. :realmad:

Recap:
• PROBLEMCHYLD does not actively USE KernelEx on his main machine(s) but does and has done regular TESTS with various versions.
• PROBLEMCHYLD has always reported bugs directly to Xeno86 in private, therefore all other members here had no idea about this.
• Some people may use certain software without others knowing. Speak loud and clear, ask and you shall receive an answer.
• Incompatibilities have been, are and most likely will always be between KernelEx and apps running on a vanilla Windows 9x. Disable it for affected modules and that's it.
• Incompatibilities have been, are and most likely will always be between KernelEx and apps running with uSP, because there is no such thing as a perfect setup. Report it, work around it, live with it until it's fixed (if possible).
• People like Xeno86, Tihiy and others have worked hard for KernelEx. So did Gape, PROBLEMCHYLD and others for uSP. Let us respect each-other's efforts and work together, instead of tossing the dead cat from one's yard to another's.

Now I'll go get myself a beer. Be good, guys - we're all in the same boat!

some typos, as usual...

This post has been edited by Drugwash: 21 March 2013 - 03:09 PM

#2243 PROBLEMCHYLD

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:23 PM

Drugwash, on 21 March 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Guys, you're funny. :lol:

If you all stop making assumptions and just go with facts and explanations where necessary, there wouldn't be so much wasted web space. :whistle:

some typos, as usual...

Thanks you peacemaker. This all started with me and LoneCrusader about NT files being included in the SP. Then Leyok took LC side and said he feel the same say and thats fine. Then loblo starting asking what problems I have, and I told him, I don't have any problems because I don't use it. You have members who will PM or whatever. Am I suppose to post our PM because someone doesn't believe. This was funny though. I kept it together this time. I told loblo I haven't used it since way before Xeno left. I guess I was suppose to document this bug. Who's to say I didn't share my software with Xeno so he can try and reproduce the bug. I'm not saying I did, I'm just saying. Everything that goes on behind close doors is not for everyone eyes and ears. I'm not even sure what year, but like I said, if I come across it again I'll post it.

#2244 loblo

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:27 PM

PROBLEMCHYLD said:

I said KEX breaks my software not my operating system. Get in tune.

Stop saying KernelEx breaks your software when you have no clue whether it actually does or not. You have never installed the latest or any recent version on your system so you cannot make such a statement in the present tense as you constantly do.

PROBLEMCHYLD said:

SP3.X works better without KEX :w00t:

This is the other statement you constantly make, only arguing that you have done repeated testing on a fresh install. This is unacceptable since you've now repeatedly dodged all queries for specific details so stop doing it too as it appears to be completely baseless.

And just between you and me, this is not about "point scoring" (which sadly seems to be your primary concern in this discussion).

#2245 PROBLEMCHYLD

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

Once again, you won't leave well enough alone. I have a MAIN F***ING SYSTEM that pay my bills, that takes care of my daughter and family. I am not going to jeopardize it because you think KernelEX is flawless. You claim to have the same software which you don't, the same operating system which you don't, but you have yet to prove anything. I gave you the software to reproduce the bugs. But since you don't have the software or want the same software I use, you won't reproduce the bugs because you don't want to. I posted 5 software versions, you only posted 1 and the one you posted is not even the same version as mine. How stupid of you. So we are not in the same boat. I have never said KEX was BAD, you can't find one post that says, I ever said anything BAD about KernelEx. I never told users it was buggy, it causes system crashes etc..... I said it BROKE my PAID software. When will you learn that KEX is not everything, and I have test ed KEX on other systems, just not MY MAIN one. And for the record, anyone will tell you its best to test on a clean install, because its easier to narrow down bugs. I don't have countless of hours to burn because I make money. What about you? You must be broke and bitter. I can see it.

Once again, another victim I have slayed :w00t:

You want me to go the extra mile and put in the time, but you are not willing to do the same.

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 27 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

#2246 PROBLEMCHYLD

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

Hey mods, if you have some free time, some users need help searching for posts where I disrespected or bad mouth KEX. They are having a little trouble because such posts don't exist. We all know that every Unofficial pack has flaws even SP3, but I'll be **** if any users say SP is the cause for their pack not working correctly. I have been working on SP almost 2 years, and yes it has had it s share of bugs and all known bugs has been fixed, thanks to you guys.

The truth will hurt and destroy a man's pride. :thumbup

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 22 March 2013 - 12:46 PM

#2247 ilpalazzo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:15 AM

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum. Big thanks to everyone involved in creating Win98 Unofficial Service Pack, I've been using it on a couple of my old PCs that I put up to play old games.
I ran into some issues with it though and perhaps you could help me learn more about them.

I did a thing that I was specifically advised not to do during the installation, that is proceed with it while being in Safe Mode. I got a pop-up that said that running text mode window in safe mode can corrupt my video card.
I disregarded it and indeed that is exactly what had happened. The installation continued fine but upon reset I found out that GUI won't start if I have a few things loaded in my autoexec.bat and config.sys
and I also got errors and drops to CLI out of a few of dos games. However win2k install that I have on the same machine runs fine, games included. All is fine if I put other video card in.

Anyway, can someone in the know please elaborate on what exactly happened and why, and what part on my video card god fried and If I should expect any other problems with it beside these that I already encountered
(that is - i wonder If I would be able to use it without problems in Windows mode or should I rather replace it.

This post has been edited by ilpalazzo: 25 March 2013 - 06:24 AM

#2248 Dave-H

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 06:20 AM

Welcome to the forum!
:hello:

Firstly, you haven't "fried" your video card.
If it works OK under Windows 2000 the hardware must still be OK.
You may well have corrupted the Windows 98 drivers though.
Have you tried removing it in Device Manager and just rebooting and letting it reinstall itself?
If that doesn't work, and assuming you have the driver disk for the card, or can download it, try removing it and cleaning the driver completely off the machine in Safe Mode.
Remove the driver in the Add/Remove Programs list if it's there.
If it's an ATI card or a nVidia card, you can use Driver Cleaner Pro to completely clean the system of all references to the driver.
Then do a fresh install from the disks.
Don't ignore warning messages in future, they're there for a reason!
Hope this helps.

This post has been edited by Dave-H: 25 March 2013 - 06:25 AM

#2249 ilpalazzo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:41 AM

I am not having any problems under Windows (any version). Issues I have are under DOS mode in windows (F8 boot and then command prompt only option). I get choppy, jerky motion in games (I checked System Shock and Magic Carpet, both are protected mode). During the "chop" the sound is distorted as well so it's like the whole machine is stuttering. This is happening on my Geforce 4 that I installed SP on. If I switch video card to another (I tried GF2 and Radeon 9200) everything is fluid. I don't boot to GUI at all between changes.

EDIT:

Well there's the possibility that something else is to blame or that the card was faulty already. I have not booted this machine to win98/dos for a long time as I have another for dos games. This one is Tualatin 1.4 and I use it for windows stuff that doesn't like multi core CPUs. That's why I havent cut my wrists yet

Anyway I would really like to hear from the author of that pop-up warning that said that running text windows in Safe Mode can corrupt video card. I would have never believed such a thing and that's why I pressed "continue" without hesitation. I would like to learn something from this event.

Second Edit:

Allright, I put this card in another box (Duron 800, via KT133A) and everything seem to be working fine. Maybe it's a conflict with sound card or something similar. Will investigate further.

This post has been edited by ilpalazzo: 25 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

#2250 Drugwash

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

What you're experiencing may be an IRQ/DMA sharing conflict. Different video/sound/USB/etc cards use different settings and it's possible that in DOS mode, some of the shared resources create conflicts.

You may enter the BIOS if you're confident enough - better note down all settings fo future restoration if anything goes wrong - and try to enable manual assignment of IRQs and DMA channels, then change them around, especially those pertaining to videocard and/or soundcard.

If soundcard and/or others are PCI add-ons, you may also swap cards in the PCI slots, because each slot has its own IRQ and DMA and this operation may resolve the conflict (but may as well create another, so be careful).

Please note that any such change in the BIOS will be followed by Windows having to redetect devices and in some case ask for the driver, even though it was already installed, so be prepared with the drivers as install kits or already unpacked if zipped.
If for some reason Windows malfunctions, put back the cards as they were initially and restore the BIOS settings.

Remember: you're doing all this on your own risk.

Good luck!

#2251 ilpalazzo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

That's what I just did - I tried to force the video card out of its IRQ by reserving it for a PCI port. Didn't help and I made sure both video and audio cards got different IRQs than before. BTW I recall my second edit from the last post - my GF4 didn't work well when put in another box, although it did work fine with some of games that it hadn't in the original. It's worth mentioning that I redo every test with Geforce 2 which works good every time, so obviously something is not right. It's much older card though so there.

I fiddled with video bios shadow settings and AGP memory cache settings. I forgot to check out disabling APIC or forcing AGP x2 or x1 but I give up for now. If anyone has any info on what is the deal with this text window + safe mode thing I would be very interested.

#2252 Drugwash

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know, if you're booting directly in DOS mode and not in a DOS window under Windows, anything installed by the SP should not affect the behavior of the DOS applications. DOS games come with their own video/sound drivers and that DOS4GW or whatever it's called, so if anything, it's all hardware-related. Maybe the BIOS on that particular board doesn't do a very good job assigning or separating IRQs and/or other resources. Or you may just have to keep making changes in the BIOS until everything falls in place. Might be time consuming, I know, but as far as the SP is concerned, I strongly doubt there's anything that could help.

As for the warning you mentioned, I would guess it's about corrupting the video memory, making the screen garbled and unreadable - something that is not permanent and gets cleared upon reboot. But please, whoever knows better, do chime in!

#2253 ilpalazzo

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:52 PM

What you're saying is quite possibly true, it may all be a coincidence or my knee jerk reaction. I don't even recall the exact content of that warning message (and I obviously didn't try to get to it a second time). The facts are though that I never had any problems with this particular video card and I do tinker with old boxes a lot (although not recently with this particular setup), that I got this warning message during installation of the SP and that I did some tests right afterwards and encountered problems. That's why I'm curious about the matter.

#2254 rloew

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 03:05 PM

ilpalazzo, on 25 March 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

The author of that message is Microsoft. Apparently some configurations may corrupt the Display when using DOS in Safe Mode. It is unlikely to cause permanent damage. I have ignored this message hundreds of time and never had a problem worse than getting my DOS Box default position changed.

#2255 TmEE

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:35 PM

I have had problems around that, on some video cards I get completely messed up image in safe mode as soon as I start any console window.

#2256 goodiesguy

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:14 AM

Great upload. Works great.

Just one bug. I've installed it without the 2000 icons. All my 98 icons are fine, except when the Recycle Bin is full, it shows the non 3d textured windows 95/256 colours icon instead of the normal 32 bit 3d textured one.

#2257 Steven W

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 11:22 PM

I was just looking at the timezone info, particularly timezone.inf. I think the info here:

http://support.micro....com/kb/2779562

can be plugged into the file simply by deleting the '/' character and the extra space in the hex values. I'm curious too if the information such as "Starting in 2012, Bahia Standard Time will no longer have DST" could be used to remove unnecessary registry entries. Also, looking over older updates, it looks to me as though Egypt and Somoa may have inadvertently been skipped in previous unofficial timezone updates:

http://support.micro....com/kb/2633952

http://support.micro....com/kb/2570791

I'm going to paste the text of what I've done for this so far. Note that I haven't attempted to use this to remove unnecessary entries.

Spoiler

I understand this is relatively unimportant as you could simply shut off DST and manually change the clock if needed.

This post has been edited by Steven W: 01 May 2013 - 12:00 AM

#2258 rloew

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM

I decided to test the current version of U98SESP3 in my test setup.

I observed the following issues:

1. A large gray rectangle appears when I started selecting installation items.
2. OCX CIC.DLL could not be registered.
3. The Installer eventually hung with no message. Task Manager reported INFEX was not responding. Reboot failed, had to reset.
4. My RAM Limitation Patch and SATA Patch were disabled and had to be replaced to boot Windows.
5. There was no option or message about USB in the Installer. Later I found the USB information on the Web Page.
6. Installing an USB Mouse crashes twice. Third boot allows installation to complete. This may be related to the WDMSTUB Installation bug I found previously.
7. USB Audio works now but on first attempt left a nameless misconfigured device in Device Manager. It was necessary to reload it's driver twice.

#2259 PROBLEMCHYLD

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:02 AM

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

1. A large gray rectangle appears when I started selecting installation items.

Can you post a screenshot?

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

2. OCX CIC.DLL could not be registered.

Some files from Main Updates needs to be installed first, before installing certain options.

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

3. The Installer eventually hung with no message. Task Manager reported INFEX was not responding. Reboot failed, had to reset.

This will always be a problem with your patches. Your patches are superior over the standard Microsoft files. Therefore, all your patches needs to be installed after the SP to avoid system problems.

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

4. My RAM Limitation Patch and SATA Patch were disabled and had to be replaced to boot Windows.

There are two solutions. The Service Pack installs VMM.VXD 4.10.2226 and ESDI_506.PDR 4.10.2230.
Solution 1. Change your versions to the following, VMM.VXD 4.10.2226 > 4.10.2227, ESDI_506.PDR 4.10.2230 > 4.10.2231. This will help distinguish the rloew patches and SP patches.
Solution 2. Back up your patched VMM.VXD and ESDI_506.PDR, Install the SP, replace the files in dos before Windows start up. You shouldn't have any problems if you follow the instructions.

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

5. There was no option or message about USB in the Installer. Later I found the USB information on the Web Page.

SP3.x has a CHM file with instructions. Same instructions on the Main website.

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

6. Installing an USB Mouse crashes twice. Third boot allows installation to complete. This may be related to the WDMSTUB Installation bug I found previously.

I don't have any USB troubles ATM. Sorry can't help you.

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

7. USB Audio works now but on first attempt left a nameless misconfigured device in Device Manager. It was necessary to reload it's driver twice.

Sorry, don't have any USB audio.

rloew,

Install Windows, all your drivers, your ram and sata patch. Either change the version or back them up and replace them in dos after you install the SP. Then install all your patches, DLLHOOK, WDMEX.VXD etc..... Report back and thank you for testing.

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 17 May 2013 - 11:04 AM

#2260 rloew

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Posted Yesterday, 03:36 PM

PROBLEMCHYLD, on 17 May 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

1. A large gray rectangle appears when I started selecting installation items.

Can you post a screenshot?

Attached.
It appears also when starting and stopping the second pass.

Quote

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

2. OCX CIC.DLL could not be registered.

Some files from Main Updates needs to be installed first, before installing certain options.

Doing Main Updates first separately from the rest worked, but there are no instructions to do so.
I know about the CHM because you told me. There is no reference to it that I can see.
The Installer goes to the selection menu without the user being able to read the CHM beforehand even if he knows about it.
Your target audience will mostly be NEWBIES. Experinced users will have less need for this SP.
The Instructions should be plainly displayed before the selection window.
Website instructions will quickly be separated from a downloaded package, so you can't depend on people reading the Website for Installation instructions.

Quote

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

3. The Installer eventually hung with no message. Task Manager reported INFEX was not responding. Reboot failed, had to reset.

This will always be a problem with your patches. Your patches are superior over the standard Microsoft files. Therefore, all your patches needs to be installed after the SP to avoid system problems.

My Patches would not have affected your Installer. Doing the Install in two passes seems to have resolved the INFEX issue.

Quote

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

4. My RAM Limitation Patch and SATA Patch were disabled and had to be replaced to boot Windows.

To avoid IP issues, I do not include VMM.VXD VCACHE.VXD or ESDI_506.PDR in these Patches. I use whatever the User has. Setting the Version would make the actual Version unidentifiable.
Also they could be using Version 2222 which would then not be updated by your SP. In addition, in the absence of an official Versioning System, changing Version numbers can lead to problems especially if multiple people inplement Patches.
I found that the following works for each Installation pass:

1. Uninstall my Patches. Partial uninstall or Uninstall Failed is OK.
2. Run U98SESP3 Install Pass. Do not reboot.
3. Reinstall my Patches.
4. Reboot.

You may want to add this to your documentation.

Quote

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

5. There was no option or message about USB in the Installer. Later I found the USB information on the Web Page.

SP3.x has a CHM file with instructions. Same instructions on the Main website.

See above comments on Instructions.

Quote

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

6. Installing an USB Mouse crashes twice. Third boot allows installation to complete. This may be related to the WDMSTUB Installation bug I found previously.

I don't have any USB troubles ATM. Sorry can't help you.

It does seem to work eventually. WDMEX will fix this issue.

Quote

rloew, on 16 May 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

7. USB Audio works now but on first attempt left a nameless misconfigured device in Device Manager. It was necessary to reload it's driver twice.

Sorry, don't have any USB audio.

Others will have to test this. The problem seems related to the Kernel System Renderer.

Quote

rloew,

Install Windows, all your drivers, your ram and sata patch. Either change the version or back them up and replace them in dos after you install the SP. Then install all your patches, DLLHOOK, WDMEX.VXD etc..... Report back and thank you for testing.

I did not use DLLHOOK or WDMEX in these tests.
WDMEX replaces WDMSTUB, so the INF files would have to be purged of WDMSTUB references.
DLLHOOK issues were related to KernelEX not U98SESP3. I don't see any reason for problems with DLLHOOK or FILE64.