[PROBLEMCHYLD]

@ Svenne, I like your start banner. I was wondering instead of Windows 98SE USP3, maybe add Windows 98SE Service Pack 3. I actually like Service Pack to be spelled out if its not too much trouble.

MiKl, on 04 December 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Sorry, but what are the needed properties of a start banner ? bmp, jpg, png ? Size ?

My first try. Thanks

I like your blue background as well. What I was aiming at, was only adding PROBLEMCHYLD to the banner for my own personal system. Below are some examples with colors and fonts so you guys can get an idea

Drugwash, on 04 December 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Oh, Happy belated Birthday to your little kiddo!

Bad thing is, I am "celebrating" this year's "winter holiday toothache", which happens to me every darn year, so I may not be able to do much, if anything, until/if I get rid of it. But we do have talented members here, you may get your X-Mas present from someone anyway.

Meanwhile, I can offer a small handy tool that can quickly change display resolution for those whose videocard driver does not offer hotkeys (or they have that feature disabled). It's great for testing how their artwork looks like in 16/256 colors (4-8bpp) versus 32bpp.
Download QuickSwitcher.
Please note it uses a few global hotkeys that may interfere with other applications, so do use it only when needed. The 'About' tray menu show what the hotkeys are. And for those with multiple videocards/displays, please note there may be a confusion between display outputs - will try to fix this when possible.

Thanks Drugwash I was trying to get in the artwork/graphics, its not for me, so I will leave it to you Pros. I think it great how all the guys are contributing with all this artwork and ideas.

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 04 December 2012 - 10:54 AM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Since 3.12 has only small changes, there is no need to install Main Updates. There has been no changes to Main Updates. These are the only changes

Added MANGAL.TTF Microsoft VOLT 1.2
Added TEMPSITC.TTF Plus!98 CD
Added Artwork
Added Original start up and shut down logos with [Second Edition]

You can let SP3 install the 2 fonts added or manually do it yourself, the same goes for start up and shut down logos. I will release 3.12 later tonight. I'm really excited to see SP3 has reached a high level of security, stability, and performance. Thanks to all of you guys.

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 04 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

[pjmelect]

I hate to pour cold water on the art work customizations but I prefer a vanilla look to my Windows 98. I think that only the creators of the art work and the service packs like them. If you include these art works could you have a option not to install them.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

pjmelect, on 04 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I hate to pour cold water on the art work customizations but I prefer a vanilla look to my Windows 98. I think that only the creators of the art work and the service packs like them. If you include these art works could you have a option not to install them.

Troll, Troll, Troll, Troll....... Can someone please explain to this person whats going on. If I do it, it won't be nice. All one has to do is read all the post instead of the very last one. Troll, Troll, Troll, Troll...........

[pjmelect]

Quote

View Postpjmelect, on Yesterday, 01:58 AM, said:
I hate to pour cold water on the art work customizations but I prefer a vanilla look to my Windows 98. I think that only the creators of the art work and the service packs like them. If you include these art works could you have a option not to install them.
Troll, Troll, Troll, Troll....... Can someone please explain to this person whats going on. If I do it, it won't be nice. All one has to do is read all the post instead of the very last one. Troll, Troll, Troll, Troll...........

I am not a troll, I have read all of the previous posts. Although I have not tried out any of the recent versions of the service pack, I have tried out some of the old ones. The two things that I disliked from the old versions of the service pack was the change of the Windows 98 version number which stopped me from installing certain software and the art work down the side of the start menu. It took me some time to figure out how to change these things. I am just saying that I hope that these things should be optional. Apart from that thank you for the service pack.

[bphlpt]

How exactly did the change in version number prevent you installing certain software? Which exact version number and of what, and what was the software that it effected?

The artwork is the prerogative of the person that updates the pack and the start menu. You are welcome to then change it back as you learned how to do, or not use the pack and install all your own updates instead. It is not totally unreasonable to politely (and all your posts so far that I have seen have been polite) ask PROBLEMCHYLD if it would be possible to allow the artwork to be more easily modified by the user, but he is perfectly within his rights to just as politely decline. He has spent an enormous amount of time creating, troubleshooting, and updating this pack, all for free and on his own time, so he has every right to add some distinctive touches that do not detrimentally effect its operation. More folks seem to like these distinctive personalizing touches than you might realize, but many of those also want to personalize things their way, so the ability to modify the artwork might appeal to more than just you.

Cheers and Regards

This post has been edited by bphlpt: 05 December 2012 - 09:21 PM

[Drugwash]

- I am just saying that I hope that these things should be optional.
- It is optional. When you install Windows Millennium Edition/Windows 2000 Theme option, this is when you get the updated start banner and WinME icons.

Well, the above would've been just about enough. I was wondering, maybe we should put up a (small) Q & A section, answering the most common doubts someone may have, such as the one above. For whatever reason, people may not be able to read through the huge thread to find certain details or they may just not grasp them, but let's not shoot them for that; instead, let's try to make it easier for both them and us. Any question coming up that's been answered to, will just get a link to first post where all the answers would be (moderators agreeing and helping, of course).

Let's begin gathering:

Q: Older versions of the Service Pack used to change Start Menu banner and Desktop icons. I want to keep the originals. How can I do that?
A: Starting with v3.6, these changes are optional and will only get installed by selecting Windows Millenium Edition/Windows 2000 Theme option.

This post has been edited by Drugwash: 06 December 2012 - 03:19 AM

[jaclaz]

Drugwash, on 06 December 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

Let's begin gathering:

Q: Is it acceptable to express an opinion (exception made for one expressing total and unconditional approval, awe and worship) or tentatively suggest an alternate option on anything PROBLEMCHYLD makes in the Service Pack or writes in this (or any other one for that matters) thread?
A: No.

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 06 December 2012 - 05:15 AM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Drugwash, on 06 December 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

- I am just saying that I hope that these things should be optional.
- It is optional. When you install Windows Millennium Edition/Windows 2000 Theme option, this is when you get the updated start banner and WinME icons.

Well, the above would've been just about enough.

It would have until someone else comes along and ask the same question The mods are always telling users to use the search function. If a user can't take a few minutes to search, then we are going to continue to have this problem.

pjmelect, on 05 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

I have read all of the previous posts.

This is why we are having this problem, because he/she didn't read. If we posted in big red letters, on the first page, people are still going to complain.

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 06 December 2012 - 05:24 AM

[Drugwash]

Let's not judge, nobody ever knows the whole truth and we may later on be sorry for our misjudgments.

Having such important information all gathered in first post would give us an anchor to point to, instead of asking people to read hundreds of posts. They may lack spare time, they may have bad sight (back at the Miranda IM forums we had a couple of visually impaired users - that is, blind, for those unfamiliar with the term - who were trying to use the application; tell them to "read" hundreds of posts...) or they may have a lot of other valid reasons for being unable to follow a huge discussion. Remember not all people are alike. Besides, discussions on "why did you", "why didn't you" and so on, are moot and just wasting web space and our own time; let's do something constructive instead, for time is not our ally.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Drugwash, on 06 December 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

Let's not judge, nobody ever knows the whole truth and we may later on be sorry for our misjudgments.

Having such important information all gathered in first post would give us an anchor to point to, instead of asking people to read hundreds of posts. They may lack spare time, they may have bad sight (back at the Miranda IM forums we had a couple of visually impaired users - that is, blind, for those unfamiliar with the term - who were trying to use the application; tell them to "read" hundreds of posts...) or they may have a lot of other valid reasons for being unable to follow a huge discussion. Remember not all people are alike. Besides, discussions on "why did you", "why didn't you" and so on, are moot and just wasting web space and our own time; let's do something constructive instead, for time is not our ally.

I have to disagree Not all, but it will be many that will not read, even if it is on the first page We have been down this road already. Just like another member asked me to add Dial-Up Networking, which has been there from the get go. Just like the misinformation about SP3 conflicting with Plus98 Some people need to get in tune. I have tried to accomodate as many people possible, but you still have the ones who will never be happy. Its almost like some users look for something to whine about.

[Drugwash]

When that happens, get a magazine and start reading. Even most troubled waters settle at some point.

[bphlpt]

PROBLEMCHYLD, on 06 December 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

Not all, but it will be many that will not read, even if it is on the first page

Maybe not at first, but if the more common questions were all put together in one post as a FAQ, as Drugwash suggests, then when a question is asked, again, then all it takes is a link to that post as a response, and nothing else. Overall, less work will be required by whoever responds to the question. Also, more people will be able to learn more of the details of the SP even if they don't use it very often, as I don't, and they will be able to more easily help with the responses. I'm as guilty as the next guy of not reading through all 100 pages of this thread. When Lone Crusader mentioned to me that he thought he remembered that there was a problem in the past between SP3 and Plus, I assumed he would know, since he uses Plus and he's been involved with Win98 and this thread longer than I have, but I asked the clarifying question, again, in this thread a week ago. I'm guilty and I'm sorry. I don't know about everybody else, but I can't always find what I want in the forum even when I know that it's there, somewhere.

Cheers and Regards

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I guarantee you, when someone decides to make that list you are going to have those who will ignore the list. How ideal is it to create a list for users just to point them to the list? This is why we have a search function, and is it used? Forget being optimistic because it means nothing once reality kicks in.

[bphlpt]

All very, very true. But will it be any worse than it is now? And if it's even 2% better, wouldn't it be worth it to have even those few less annoyances? Just a suggestion. I'll hush now. It is your project and your final decision. Thanks for all your hard work on this project.

Cheers and Regards

[Drugwash]

Quote

How ideal is it to create a list for users just to point them to the list?

Much better than saying "use the search". Believe me, I've had my behind kicked one too many times by the so-called search function and I'm not talking about this board but generally, over the web. Try searching for short words or acronyms such as SP or SP3, you'll see what I mean. A search function is only useful when you know what to search and where. Many people come from foreign countries (such as myself) and they may not know the correct terms for whatever they're searching for. Some may land on the last page from a link on some other site out there, many may not know even what we consider the basic rule of having all important info in post #1. Frustration accumulates and may overflow in a not-so-nice manner. Whereas a simple link or the phrase "please read post #1" would be just enough to point them in the right direction.

Anyway, "ideal" is a nice word for "impossible", but I do believe such FAQ would get us much closer to it. Then, if they don't go there, they're on their own. But we got our back covered (and mouths wide shut ).

(no matter how careful, there's always a typo...)

This post has been edited by Drugwash: 06 December 2012 - 07:42 AM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Who will create the list?

[Drugwash]

That'd be the starting point. Someone who has enough spare time to put together pieces of information. Each of us may know a few things, somemoderators may already have links to relevant posts, you're the one who knows most, especially change logs. Those would be great for pointers. For the rest, there's this loooooooooong thread to comb and find whatever small oddity that may rise from installing the Service Pack.

If nobody else offers, I could try to build it, but that would definitely hinder my other projects. Let's see what we got, wait a reasonable amount of time for some volunteers and we'll take it from there.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Drugwash, on 06 December 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

That'd be the starting point. Someone who has enough spare time to put together pieces of information. Each of us may know a few things, somemoderators may already have links to relevant posts, you're the one who knows most, especially change logs. Those would be great for pointers. For the rest, there's this loooooooooong thread to comb and find whatever small oddity that may rise from installing the Service Pack.

If nobody else offers, I could try to build it, but that would definitely hinder my other projects. Let's see what we got, wait a reasonable amount of time for some volunteers and we'll take it from there.

I'm cool with that.

[Drugwash]

WANTED
Volunteer(s) to gather and put together
bits and pieces of information pertaining to installation
of
Windows 98 Second Edition Unofficial Service Pack

Personal knowledge and experience is most welcome.


Once we find a keeper, we start pushing information towards him. Most important things first, then details and rare events. Get ready with an empty PM box and/or a public e-mail address.