[North of Watford]

Drugwash, on 06 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

WANTED
Volunteer(s) ... ...

Well, as I haven't contributed to this very worthwhile & necessary project so far, now is obviously the time to volunteer. Depending on how real life is going (demanding customers etc) there might be a few days gap between times that I can attend to this filing etc task. If that is OK with everyone, I'm happy to have a go. Email the info collections etc to:
w98sesp3
-at-
isonews2.com

Jeff

[Address deliberately split over three lines to inhibit spam@ddress.scraper.bots.org ]

[Drugwash]

Thank you very much, most kind of you to volunteer for this task. We may want to wait a little more, maybe there's someone else willing to help too, as we may need to split tasks and/or have a backup.

Meanwhile, anybody that had any major or minor issues installing the Service Pack and they were able to fix them, please write down the complete procedure as detailed as possible, so we could analyze, extract and format the most important information. Known incompatibilities (even former ones with earlier versions of the SP), known tips and tricks, anything that may be useful to someone that never used the SP before - please write them down and keep it ready to be sent to our keeper(s). People trying the SP would want to have that information at hand, before running into any of those issues during or after installation.

[bphlpt]

I'm very glad someone else agreed to be the keeper. As a place for folks to begin posting potential entries to the FAQ, to prevent too many duplicates, and to help trigger folks ideas of other Q&A's I created this thread - http://www.msfn.org/...thering-thread/ Other hints, tips and tricks could also be posted there.

Cheers and Regards

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I have been working on the Media Transfer Protocol (MTP). The drivers seems to work but I cant access any media. I did the same thing in WinXP and I was able to see the media through windows explorer. I think we might need a app to view it on Win98. I'll look into it some more. If you guys have any ideas, please post them.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I have found 2 minor bugs in 3.12. I have release 3.13. Main Updates has Not changed. The issues are minor, and you probably wouldn't notice them.
Mdac 2.8 and Windows Millennium Edition/Windows 2000 Theme option had the bugs. I have fix them.

[TmEE]

I have been putting 98SE on my HP NX6125 since I got a working WiFi card that likes 98 too.
And it seems 3.13 is not getting along with ATI OpenHCI USB. Bootlog stops at "loading PNP drivers for..." entry
Installing USB drivers will result in BSOD or Windows Protection Error during boot
When I experimented long ago I could get USB working without trouble with nusb3.3

I made a snapshot of the system prior to installing SP3.13 so I can carry on some experiments without much problems. I dual boot 98SE and XP on that laptop, to get best of both worlds ^^

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

TmEE, on 20 December 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

I have been putting 98SE on my HP NX6125 since I got a working WiFi card that likes 98 too.
And it seems 3.13 is not getting along with ATI OpenHCI USB. Bootlog stops at "loading PNP drivers for..." entry
Installing USB drivers will result in BSOD or Windows Protection Error during boot
When I experimented long ago I could get USB working without trouble with nusb3.3

I made a snapshot of the system prior to installing SP3.13 so I can carry on some experiments without much problems. I dual boot 98SE and XP on that laptop, to get best of both worlds ^^

Download this Package Delete SP3.CAB in Windows\System\Precopy. Replace USBHUB20.SYS 5.0.2195.6891 with the VIA version USBHUB20.SYS 4.90.3000.11. Remove all USB drivers in safe mode. Let everything re-detect on start up. Report back here.

[TmEE]

I had to manually point out files during driver install when SP3.CAB was gone, when pointing usbui.dll and pressing OK things explode with 0E exception in VXD NTKERN(08).

using VIA INF to install the devices gets nowhere.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

TmEE, on 20 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

I had to manually point out files during driver install when SP3.CAB was gone, when pointing usbui.dll and pressing OK things explode with 0E exception in VXD NTKERN(08).

using VIA INF to install the devices gets nowhere.

You are not suppose to use the via inf file. All you need to do is replace that one file I listed and follow the rest of the usb instructions.

[TmEE]

Neither way worked. BSOD happens during the install of the controller, things never reach hubs or 2.0 installation...

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Are you using a USB mouse or Keyboard? If so you need to use a PS/2 mouse and KB until you get the drivers in place.

[TmEE]

The laptop is all PS/2 inside so USB driver installs are not going to be problematic.

Current workaround for me has been installation of NUSB36 before SP313. When I update the drivers then I will be asked if I want to keep the current newer file (OPENHCI.SYS). Keeping the newer file seems te work, but replacing it ended up in a freeze, mouse moves and no BSOD. Forced reboot then results in Windows Protection Error.

EDIT: I extracted OPENHCI.SYS from NUSB36 and replaced it in SYSTEM32\DRIVERS and boot error is gone but USB flash stick caused me a freeze and on forced reboot there was no error.

This post has been edited by TmEE: 20 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

TmEE, on 20 December 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

The laptop is all PS/2 inside so USB driver installs are not going to be problematic.

Current workaround for me has been installation of NUSB36 before SP313. When I update the drivers then I will be asked if I want to keep the current newer file (OPENHCI.SYS). Keeping the newer file seems te work, but replacing it ended up in a freeze, mouse moves and no BSOD. Forced reboot then results in Windows Protection Error.

EDIT: I extracted OPENHCI.SYS from NUSB36 and replaced it in SYSTEM32\DRIVERS and boot error is gone but USB flash stick caused me a freeze and on forced reboot there was no error.

So that means the Win98 version of OPENHCI.SYS has a conflict with ATI controllers. Thanks

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 20 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

[TmEE]

There is no VIA controller, but ATI controller, built into "SB400" south bridge

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

TmEE, on 20 December 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

There is no VIA controller, but ATI controller, built into "SB400" south bridge

Ok, thanks. I will release 3.14 after New Years with updated files.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I have some Good news and Bad news. I will release 2 versions of SP sometime in January.
It will be a 3.14 and a 3.15. SP 3.14 wil be the last version with USB support. I will remove all USB drivers from 3.15 and above. It seems that the USB drivers are causing conflicts on different systems even though they work on many other systems. Its seem no one is interested in coming up with a overall solution, which means many are content with the situation as long as it don't [affect/effect] them. So I'm content as well I said this before, I don't think people should use VIA drivers with Intel, Sis drivers with NEC etc.... I tried to use MS only drivers as a universal solution, it didn't work out so nicely That means if you have had problems with NUSB and the SP3.x USB 1.1/USB 2.0 drivers, I don't have a solution for you. I will not waste my time trying to update 2 packages. Its not worth it

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 21 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

[Dave-H]

I think you're absolutely right to make this decision.
Trying to produce a service pack with full up to date USB support for all possible hardware configurations must be impossible, so it's best not to include it at all.
People who want better USB support in Windows 98SE can easily investigate other solutions which they can try.

[Drugwash]

It's been discussed before. The problem itself is not as much as which driver files to use with a particular controller/hub, but how to allow different controllers to coexist on a given system, when their respective driver files are identically named.

Detection of an existing controller is relatively easy to perform at install time, through a small application or by the installer itself - something I promised I'd build but I still don't have enough information to start with (and spare time). But when a new controller is added and drivers are needed, that's when the "fun" begins.

The installation inf should contain specific sections, one for each controller brand that does not play well with the generic MS drivers and their filenames must all be different from one-another, so that whenever a new controller is installed, the new files would not overwrite the existing ones, leading to lock-ups, BSOD and such.
If files need to be renamed, we rename them. If internal calls/dependencies must be renamed, we (try to) do that too.

But what we need most is a testbed, one or more persons that do have different controllers and spare machines to test on. Unfortunately, I don't. All my spare machines are Pentium I or II, with USB 1.1 at most and they lack either hard drive, RAM, videocard, PSU or other components. The only USB 2.0 add-on card I have is mounted in my day-to-day 98SE machine that never gets shut down. I already offered details on my experience with that machine and the two VIA controllers in it (the one on-board 1.1 and the 2.0 PCI add-on).

You may remove USB support in the Service Pack if you feel it creates difficulties, but more than that I guess people should become aware of the possible issues and start acting rationally, understand what they're doing, take preemptive measures such as back-up data and all and assume any risks coming from installing a package that - at least at this time - cannot be universally fit for each and every system out in the world.

Either way, when/if we come up with a (near) perfect solution, we can put back USB drivers in the package. But if so many people that would otherwise have no such issues, would not be able to benefit from the USB enhancement, I feel this may be a step down for the Service Pack. Now that is my personal opinion and nothing more, stated here for the record. PROBLEMCHYLD, you alone decide what to do.

I wish everybody here Happy Winter Holidays in good health!

(minor typos, eh...)

This post has been edited by Drugwash: 21 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

My biggest problems with some testers is, when they have problems they don't look for solutions or work arounds. All of my USB controllers are Intel/Nec, so I understand where you are coming from. I also the love the fact that you are always mutual in your replies I can understand some people not able to sacrifice their systems for whatever reasons, but what about the people who can? Is it that hard to back up a system, format the drive and do a clean install of win98 with the SP I do it all the time before a new release. If everything works fine, you can actually build off the new installation. Hey, that may be too much like right I also feel removing USB drivers is a step backwards, but it also hinders us moving foward. I want the SP to be complete, in other words 10 years from now, a clean windows install with SP, one should have a fully updated system. I won't turn my back yet, but when it becomes a losing battle, I'll have to wave the flag

[Drugwash]

Well, some people can do certain things, others can't. Either they don't know how, they lack spare time, they're afraid or just can't afford to do it. We can't blame them for that, it's their life, their prerogative. Let's hope we do find someone who can.

I try to take every person as they are, with their good and bad. We're not all alike and we should understand that and be a little more resiliant to each-other, as long as we all have the same goal.

And beyond that, we can learn things even from an angry person's testimony, putting bad words aside and taking only what we need to help us fix or improve our work. Words are words, facts are more important. I've learned that, in time.

We'll see what future brings us. If only we stick together...