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Gape

98 SE SP 3.32

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LoneCrusader    95

And this is why we are at war. He said he didn't want to follow the instructions by not removing his intel drivers.

So who fault is that. I keep saying follow the instructions. This is old news. I have moved on from this and so has he.

So why are you keeping up the bul*****?

If all of us followed the instructions we would be running Windows 7. If all of us followed the instructions then we would have burned our Windows 9x hardware and software and be singing the praises of Microsoft.

If jds prefers to use his Intel USB2 drivers, then he has every right to, regardless of what you think about it.

And the instructions are irrelevant here. He did not get any errors from his "lack of following them." He simply requested that a part of the SP be made optional, and you got mad about it. End of story.

I think I've made my point.

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PROBLEMCHYLD    45

I think I've made my point.

Thats your problem, you think too much with that simpleton brain of yours.

Stop thinking and learn something for a change.

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LoneCrusader    95

I think I've made my point.

Thats your problem, you think too much with that simpleton brain of yours.

Stop thinking and learn something for a change.

Nice.

Have a nice day! :hello:

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submix8c    89

HOLY CROW! I leave for a while to spar with political opposites (elsewhere) and come back to THIS?

As a co-worker once said in a meeting... SHUSH!

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PROBLEMCHYLD    45

Nice.

Have a nice day! :hello:

Who's here to defend you Mr. Peacemaker. You couldn't leave well enough alone.

I told you, you talk too much. I'm going to have a drink and ease my mind.

Whenever you want it, I got it for you and anyone else.

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Steven W    0

PROBLEMCHYLD if you do go private with it, put me on the list. I've been wanting to try it out for a long time, finally may get the chance as soon as I straighten 98 SE out on this computer (Using a Linux distro's live-cd to post). No offense intended to anyone, but PROBLEMCHYLD is the one who got off his butt and made this happen, so he can call it what he wants and add what he wants. Don't like it? Don't use it!

Edited by Steven W

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jds    1

All this because one person didn't like ASPI drivers.

No, actually. I blame you. If you have nothing constructive to contribute, why open up a hornet's nest?

I hope some day you encounter a problem and when you report it, you are told that you're the only one to report it, etc., etc.

I gave all relevant details concerning the issue, so anyone can replicate it if they so wish. Reasonably, any component of the SP that may break things should be optional. Making things optional just for someone's personal preferences could be considered unreasonable, since we don't want a myriad of install options without good reason.

Joe.

PS. That last comment is not meant to imply that there aren't other legitimate reasons for something to be made optional in the SP (for example, any stuff that goes beyond the scope of a service pack).

Edited by jds

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PROBLEMCHYLD    45

PROBLEMCHYLD if you do go private with it, put me on the list. I've been wanting to try it out for a long time, finally may get the chance as soon as I straighten 98 SE out on this computer (Using a Linux distro's live-cd to post). No offense intended to anyone, but PROBLEMCHYLD is the one who got off his butt and made this happen, so he can call it what he wants and add what he wants. Don't like it? Don't use it!

All friends of mines will get updated versions. Even some people that's not listed as my friends will get updates.

Just because I don't have you listed, doesn't mean you are not my friends. You know who you are. I'm tired of this s***.

If you don't like what's in the SP then don't use it. It don't get no simpler than that. BOTTOM F***ING LINE!

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD

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rloew    93

All friends of mines will get updated versions. Even some people that's not listed as my friends will get updates.

Just because I don't have you listed, doesn't mean you are not my friends. You know who you are. I'm tired of this s***.

Limiting it would be a bad idea. I suspect that most of the users of a SP will be novices and others who are not even members. When I read this thread, I see that Guest users make up most of the people reading this thread at the same time.

If you don't like what's in the SP then don't use it. It don't get no simpler than that.

It may be simple but in the long run it leads to people creating different versions to accomodate their needs and publishing them if others have the same issues.

Soon you have 40 alternative SPs instead of the 4 you kept referring to recently. This just leads to confusion and even more questions from inexperienced users.

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bphlpt    104

No one asked my opinion, but...

I, like many others I believe, haven't used Win9x in a long time. But I admire the tenacity of those who are willing to put forth the effort to beat it into shape to work with both older and newer hardware and software and I hope this project will continue. It's nice to have an extra tool in your toolbox "just in case". It gives folks an option that they might not have otherwise. And I guess "option" has become the key word here lately.

I definitely understand PROBLEMCHYLD's frustration.

Some prefer a system as close to the original versions of either Win95, Win98, or ME as possible, just updated. They want to maintain the original look of whichever OS they like. And those versions are all different enough to matter to those that have a preference. Some have older hardware they want/need to utilize while others want to run on as modern equipment that they can find and afford. And darn those equipment manufacturers, they haven't maintained/created 9x drivers, or worse, some seem to be incompatible with others - USB and ASPI being two that have been mentioned here lately. Some want the minimal amount of things added or changed, some want things removed to emphasize speed for gaming or whatever, and some want the most functionality they can get in one package. Some want the convenience of as few pieces to have to install as possible, while others want the flexibility of being able to fine tune their install based on hardware or software circumstances or needs.

And then there are folks, like me, who want it all - the Swiss army knife approach. We want ease of installation with the most power and capability we can get with the fewest amount of steps required. What can I say? We're lazy, too. LOL So we want a SP with as many things crammed into it that we can possibly get if there is even a remote chance we will ever use it, and we want it to enable us to use as many 3rd party apps that can possibly run on Win9x, and we want it to look good too. And be fast, and secure, and small, and run on any hardware that exists, etc, etc. And we're cheap, so we want it to be free, and available right now, and with full support and hand holding to get it to work. And we want to put in new requests when we think of something or read about somebody else having something and have those requests filled in a reasonable time period - a day or two should be plenty. And we're reasonable people. In order to accommodate those who have different needs than we do, it is perfectly alright to just make everything an option. That way it will work for everyone! In other words, a totally impossible task for ANYONE to ever do even if they had unlimited time, funds, and knowledge. So that just ain't happening, and we know it. Well, rloew and a few others might have achieved that resulting system, but not in one single SP. :)

A few people, not enough, praise the work that has been done by PROBLEMCHYLD and encourage him, maybe even helping out with code, links, info, or just testing on their own system and providing feedback. Some just ask for more, some nicely with justification, examples, links, etc, and some rudely, complaining, belittling, whining, etc. Many, unfortunately, say nothing, just watching to see what happens. Either they don't want to be a bother if someone else has already mentioned what they were thinking about, they don't want to make anybody mad, they don't want to look foolish themselves, they don't know what they want, or they just don't have a strong opinion either way so they will go along with the majority because the majority must know what the best thing is, right?

It is very obvious to all of us that there is absolutely no possible way to satisfy all of the folks described above and make them all happy bunnies. No way. No how. Ain't happening. Never. So what to do?

I believe Gape began this project in the spirit of continuing what MS had been doing as far as releasing Service Packs - fixing bugs and occasionally adding features. Some people appreciated some of the extra features that were added, they would have added them anyway so this made it more convenient, while others thought it was getting away from the "pure" SP approach. So Gape couldn't please everybody either, but I don't remember many options available in his version.

As PROBLEMCHYLD took up the torch, after it had lain dormant for a long time with no one else volunteering, and he added more features, that pleased one set of folks while making it less likely to be used by others - a bigger set of unhappy bunnies. But, admit it, the user base for this has gotten smaller as well, and more specialized. Win98 no longer is a factor for the average computer user. Some of our forum readers were in diapers when Win98 came out originally. :) I remember that PROBLEMCHYLD asked for opinions and requests for what should be added from the beginning of his involvement. There was a lot of give and take early on, but as SP3 progressed from 3.1 to the present 3.6, PROBLEMCHYLD has been trying to "finalize" his pack. After all, Win98 isn't going to change anymore, so other than an occasional bugfix, or an enhancement if anyone figures out how to add something to it from Win2K or XP, or it is decided to add another feature or function, it seems like it should be able to be finalized. So I'm sure some of the recent requests for changes caught PROBLEMCHYLD somewhat off guard. Why the requests weren't brought up earlier, or by others, I don't know.

I, like jaclaz, thought that the request by jds was reasonable and made politely and with concrete examples as to why. That was jds's right to do so. PROBLEMCHYLD declined, as was his right as well. He probably should have been a little more tactful in his refusal, but he might have been having a bad day, and like I said, it seemed like it caught him off guard. Since then, people have chimed in on both sides of the argument, but the discussion has been reduced to "name calling" type arguments by both sides, and as submix8c has said, I hope both sides will just hush, drop back, and start over calmly and respectfully. Most of the folks involved in the latest part of this thread have contributed to this project in one way or another over the years, if in no other way than providing constructive input or feedback so we all deserve a better class of discussion than what this has turned into. Both sides should treat the other with the same respect that they wish to be treated. I hope we can turn this around.

Where do we go from here?

This is PROBLEMCHYLD's project. He can do with it whatever he wants, in any way he wants, on whatever schedule he wants, with whatever distribution method he wants. PERIOD.

He has asked for input. Until he decides that he no longer wants any input, anyone that has any requests or opinions should state them clearly and respectfully with as much documentation and justification as possible and I'm sure that PROBLEMCHYLD will carefully consider them. EVERYONE who agrees with the request, especially if they can add any information, should also do so respectfully. If you disagree with a request or opinion you should post that as well, along with reasons why. That way PROBLEMCHYLD can get a better feel for how widespread an issue truly is. No this isn't a popularity contest, but if PROBLEMCHYLD wants to make his SP useful for the largest group possible he needs this type of feedback. If something can be made into an option he might consider that, but options increase the complexity of the pack and he is only one guy. If anyone can help implement an option, or provide examples of other places it has been done, assist in testing, debugging, or in any other way, perhaps even a donation, I'm sure he would welcome the help.

If PROBLEMCHYLD decides he no longer wants any input, then he should state that and we must respect that. It is still OK to let him know about issues your particular hardware or software has with the SP, or even make a request, but if he says that it is going to stay like it is he does not have to give any reason why, we just need to drop the request. He could also just ignore the post, but I hope he will at least acknowledge it, even if he just politely says no.

Either way, we all must participate in this project. If you read the thread, then post and say something. Positive or negative (respectfully), but say SOMETHING! PROBLEMCHYLD, or any creator of any product, cannot operate in a vacuum and be expected to turn out a product that meets anyone's needs but his own.

I agree with rloew that I think it will be better if PROBLEMCHYLD does not limit distribution of his SP. Even if he only cared about his own use for the pack, feedback from others could help find bugs that he might otherwise have missed. Also, the Win9x community is shrinking so much that it needs all the help from as many people as it can get. The user base is shrinking so much that rloew's point of the possibility of multiple versions of the pack being created as a result of the limited distribution of the SP would probably not happen. Instead, I think it is more likely that more people would either not be able to put together a working system or decide it just wasn't worth the trouble and the Win 9x community would shrink even further even faster.

Not that it matters, and maybe a little OT, but for comparison, we could look at a couple of projects that are being done for other versions of Windows.

tomasz86 is doing work toward a SP for Win2K. Up until now he has been doing it in several pieces with the eventual goal of combining it into one. I'm sure that will also please one group while alienating another that would prefer the pieces be kept separate, but we'll see. He is also just one guy doing this, but BlackWingCat and Wild Bill are both doing kernel extension work and Bristols and others provide and update information regarding hotfixes. acus helps repack XP hotfixes for Win2K use and there are several folks that help with testing and feedback. HFSLIP can still be used to slipstream and update Win2K with the SP pieces and individual hotfixes. Overall, tomasz86 has a fair amount of support, and a presence on several forums.

XP has many, many options for updating and modification. Two different update packs are available with different approaches, a "minimalist" approach by user_hidden, and an "AIO" approach by OnePiece. Several different tools can be used, including nLite, RVMi, HFSLIP, along with other update scripts, with many forums available with feedback, advice and support. The level of support is legion.

PROBLEMCHYLD is just one guy and is only here, AFAIK. Anyone that wants Win9x to continue for whatever reason should support whoever is willing to do any work at all toward this goal in anyway that you can.

Sorry, I didn't mean to carry on quite this long. .-::[/End of Rant]::-.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt

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PROBLEMCHYLD    45

Whenever users decides they don't want to follow instructions, I should just make things optional because they don't want to follow instructions. Yeah I took that as a sign of disrespect. In so many words, you said f*** the instructions because they don't apply to you. Its just a matter of time before others users start doing it.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD

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I41Mar    0

PROBLEMCHYLD

I am very sorry for what I'm reading in the last couple days.

Now always less and less people are able to bring updates and news to Win98 OS.

Personally I really appreciate your tenacity and willingness to continue this project that I find very useful for anyone having a older PC with Win98 OS, like me.

I think we need the development of a SP Final Version (like a milestone).

I do not exclude that any other development could also happens in the future.

I would like to thank PROBLEMCHYLD for all his work carried out for free and all dedication that he put into it (I imagine many hours and days, and many problems he had to fix).

My message is: please, keep your great work!

Best regards to all, especially to PROBLEMCHYLD.

I41Mar

P.S. The Win98 OS updates and news are the main reason why I read this beautiful forum very often.

Edited by I41Mar

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Prozactive    0

I have not posted in a long time but I still regularly check and keep up with this forum. I just wanted to say I totally agree with bphlpt, and I appreciate his long thoughtful assessment of the situation. I am shocked and distressed to find this thread devolving into a flame war. While I still have not had the opportunity to use the SP, I am extremely impressed by PROBLEMCHYLD's initiative in taking up this project, and all the hard work he's put into it ever since. Like bphlpt, jaclaz, et al., I also thought that jds made a very reasonable request but it is certainly PROBLEMCHYLD's prerogative whether to implement it in the SP. As I said, I agree with all of the other points made by bphlpt and I hope we can stop this flame war and continue to support PROBLEMCHYLD in his work. The Win9x community is small (and getting smaller) and we need all the help and support we can get.

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MiKl    1

Hi Problemchyld,

did you tested psapi.dll (5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2105)) ??

I am using it since mid-July and have not encountered any issues yet.

Have a nice weekend !!!

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PROBLEMCHYLD    45

Hi Problemchyld,

did you tested psapi.dll (5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2105)) ??

I am using it since mid-July and have not encountered any issues yet.

Have a nice weekend !!!

what app did you use that requires it? Some of my apps installed it, but was not needed to work.

I deleted the version that was installed and all worked fine.

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