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98 SE SP 3.32

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2359 replies to this topic

#1726
Hu$tle

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Why is Gape pack considered a Sp and PROBLEMCHYLD'S not? Gape has options and tweaks etc.
I see no difference except more options.


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#1727
LoneCrusader

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Why is Gape pack considered a Sp and PROBLEMCHYLD'S not? Gape has options and tweaks etc.
I see no difference except more options.

I just said that Gape's SP pushes the limits of "Service Pack" as well. I see no need to break down and itemize the differences. The point is, that the boundaries have already been pushed. Don't push them any further. Anything added should be optional.

#1728
Hu$tle

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I just said that Gape's SP pushes the limits of "Service Pack" as well. I see no need to break down and itemize the differences. The point is, that the boundaries have already been pushed. Don't push them any further. Anything added should be optional.

So an unofficial patched kernel32.dll or shell32.dll should be optional. Yeah right, you sound like jds.
Me personally I don't want to download a bunch of updates that going to do the same as the sp does.

#1729
LoneCrusader

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So an unofficial patched kernel32.dll or shell32.dll should be optional. Yeah right, you sound like jds.
Me personally I don't want to download a bunch of updates that going to do the same as the sp does.

Oh no, don't put words in my mouth. :rolleyes:

I believe I said "bugfixes" should be installed. KERNEL32 is a bugfix. The patched SHELL32 contains bugfixes, but also contains "personal" modifications. (Icon changes, removal of Shortcut Arrow, etc). SHELL32 with BUGFIXES only should be installed by default. If you want a version with the other mods, it should be an OPTION.

Basically all MS HotFixes and unofficial BUGFIXES should be installed by default. But when you get into the realm of "I like this icon better than the other one, so I will include it," or "I want the shortcut arrows gone, so I will include it," or "I use KernelEx, so I will include it," it has gone beyond a Service Pack.

jds wanted the USB updates to be optional. I believe, as PROBLEMCHYLD does, that they should be included in the "HotFixes/Bugfixes" category, because there is nothing to be lost by using them. I sympathize with jds on this one, but don't agree. However, when it comes to the ASPI layer, the Adaptec files and MS files are NOT 100% compatible. So in this situation jds is right.

#1730
PROBLEMCHYLD

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The Microsoft versions of these files are different from the Adaptec versions. They are NOT 100% compatible, so therefore in some cases are NOT an upgrade.

So far, we only have one person with a issue with the ASPI drivers.
I have been using these drivers since 2004 on all types of computers and operating systems.
Don't forget about (ALL) the people who uses the SP and haven't had any issues with their hardware. I'm positive hes's not the only one with unique hardware.
He should search for a work-around unless others have problems, there will be no change.

To a point. :whistle:

This is supposed to be a Service Pack for Windows 98 SE. Go to far down the "take it or leave it" or "add everything" paths and it is no longer a Service Pack, but rather "PROBLEMCHYLD's Windows 98 SE Customizer."

Unless someone willing to make a few hundred patches and a few hundred options, it is what it is.
Example: MDGx updated SHELL32.DLL 4.72.3812.634 breaks the icons arrows from being used with TWEAKUI.
So far, no one has attempted to rectify the issue. I guess having 50 options of patches is ideal for the SP.
Kinda like the transparency patch that was found by Nexus_06. I should have a separate option for this too huh.

Good for you PROBLEMCHYLD!
:thumbup
I don't recall Microsoft offering any options in their OS Service Packs, you installed it or you didn't, end of story.
If it broke things because of the type of hardware or configuration of your system, you sorted it out afterwards.
There are always going to be a few people who will run into problems after a blanket update of system files, and you will never finish this if you try and take all their possible problems into account.
People with problems are right to mention them of course, but if you decide that what's there is good enough to work in the vast majority of cases, and the flagged problems are not going to be widespread enough to modify the SP to take them into account, that is your decision and that should be accepted and respected.
:yes:

Thank you Dave-H. Probably the best post I have read in a long time. Thanks again.

Granted. But Microsoft also does not include every single hodgepodge update or installable package that exists for a given OS.

That's because M$ is lazy.
Whats the difference if I add every single update that was created for Win98 and made it optional as opposed to me or others downloading and installing every single update one at a time.

At least the complaining and whining will stop. There will still be unhappy people regardless what you do.
I think you should remove it and your stress level will go down.

No it won't :realmad:

My point does back to what I said about this project being a Service Pack. If it remains a system update that installs bugfixes or corrects issues on a wide range of systems, then it's great and it deserves the "Service Pack" title. But, if it goes into the realm of installing every single installable package for 98SE and customizing the system according to what one person or a group of people think it should be, then it should no longer be called a "Service Pack."

What if it breaks something at the same time fixing something?. Then, what should it be called?

I agree, it's then more accurately termed an Enhancement Pack IMO, which is a completely different animal.
:)

Should the name or title really matter. It was called SP2 at first and no one said anything.
Now that I added some more options and call it SP3, it not good enough.

PROBLEMCHYLD...

Do not loose site of YOUR original Vision!
That vision, which I've recognized from the start--
is coming up with "The Best and Most up to date Service Pack,
You Will to achieve.

What you have achieved so far, is most excellent "Gold".
There is no need to turn it into an "alloy" trying to please even the most well meaning members.

One must never be side tracked from the integrity and purity of the original concept---which you have been wonderfully successful at maintaining.

Keep up the great work!

You can believe that if I do decide not to release to the public anymore, you'll get an exclusive update.

I believe I said "bugfixes" should be installed. KERNEL32 is a bugfix. The patched SHELL32 contains bugfixes, but also contains "personal" modifications.

Thats because the new patched shell32 from MDGx breaks the ability to remove the arrows. But since it fixes a bug, its ok to create one. Ok, I get it now.

I think Auto patcher will be the best solution for everyone because, the enhancement/custom pack I worked on seems to be worthless. Enjoy 3.6 because its the last. Thanks for all the help along the way. Its time to move on.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 06 September 2012 - 01:57 PM.

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#1731
Hu$tle

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All this because one person didn't like ASPI drivers.

#1732
LoneCrusader

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Unless someone willing to make a few hundred patches and a few hundred options, it is what it is.
Example: MDGx updated SHELL32.DLL 4.72.3812.634 breaks the icons arrows from being used with TWEAKUI.
So far, no one has attempted to rectify the issue. I guess having 50 options of patches is ideal for the SP.
Kinda like the transparency patch that was found by Nexus_06. I should have a separate option for this too huh.

It's really not that hard. You simply have the original MS version install by default and have a nice little checkbox for "Install Patched SHELL32.DLL & EXLPORER.EXE (Bugfix + Updated Icons, Removed Shortcut Arrows)." If checked, the MS version will be overwritten by the MDGx version. If someone wants to bother with creating a bugfixed version without the other modifications, then great, add it, but if not, then users can choose between the two options. I'm not suggesting that you fill all the gaps yourself.

That's because M$ is lazy.
Whats the difference if I add every single update that was created for Win98 and made it optional as opposed to me or others downloading and installing every single update one at a time.

Yes, they are lazy. But I would be d*mned irritated if a Windows XP Service Pack forced me to install IE7, or IE8, or WMP10, or WMP11, or the .NET framework, or some other rubbish, just because they feel I should. There's good reason for only including system updates that do not change the look, feel, or overall operation of the OS, and there's good reason for not bundling all updates and all installers.

What if it breaks something at the same time fixing something?. Then, what should it be called?
...
Should the name or title really matter. It was called SP2 at first and no one said anything.
Now that I added some more options and call it SP3, it not good enough.

If it breaks something while fixing something then there should be a clear warning about whatever is breaks, and an option to not install whatever update does the breaking. It all comes back to OPTIONS.

I said plenty about SP2 in other threads. It was not under active development though, where your current version is.

Thats because the new patched shell32 from MDGx breaks the ability to remove the arrows. But since it fixes a bug, its ok to create one. Ok, I get it now.

I think Auto patcher will be the best solution for everyone because, the enhancement/custom pack I worked on seems to be worthless. Enjoy 3.6 because its the last. Thanks for all the help along the way. Its time to move on.

Nowhere did I say it was OK to create a bug, so no, I don't think you get it at all. :realmad:

I have tried to be even handed in this and see both sides of the issues. But your attitude keeps driving me over to the other side. I respect your right to have your project the way you want it, but you're asking for it when you say you're willing to compromise or that you want input and then get mad when people want something changed or give input you don't like. If you keep acting they way you are about it, then sooner or later you will have no one willing to help you.

For the record, I never personally asked for anything to be changed, because I don't use the SP. I have tried to help in whatever small ways I can though, because I like to see any development for Windows 9x succeed. jds contributed to the project as well, in more ways that I did, and he did not deserve the rude manner in which you responded to his request.

#1733
Dave-H

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I think Auto patcher will be the best solution for everyone because, the enhancement/custom pack I worked on seems to be worthless. Enjoy 3.6 because its the last. Thanks for all the help along the way. Its time to move on.

Never for one moment think that what you've done is worthless!
Even if it does go no further, it's still a fantastic piece of work that you should be proud of!
:yes:

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#1734
PROBLEMCHYLD

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For the record, I never personally asked for anything to be changed, because I don't use the SP.

Then why do you have so much input. How can you comment on or about something you don't use.
You help start the flame wars when all you do is open your mouth. I don't use RP. Do you see me in the RP thread talking this and that, no. My attitude is towards people like you, who have the option of installing something or not installing, who are never satisfied.
I don't mind the feedback, but its people like you and jds who keeps its going. I'm not catering to just him. He wanted it removed because his system is not compatible, but hundreds of other systems are. I don't think you and him get it. Thats like saying the member that asked for the HOST file should have got it. You feel it should be optional when you don't even use the **** pack. That reallys help. Since you feel that way, you should create an update just for jds since you and him are seeing eye to eye or STFU before I get banned.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 06 September 2012 - 03:52 PM.

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#1735
LoneCrusader

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Then why do you have so much input. How can you comment on or about something you don't use.
You help start the flame wars when all you do is open your mouth. I don't use RP. Do you see me in the RP thread talking this and that, no. My attitude is towards people like you, who have the option of installing something or not installing, who are never satisfied.
I don't mind the feedback, but its people like you and jds who keeps its going. I'm not catering to just him. He wanted it removed because his system is not compatible, but hundreds of other systems are. I don't think you and him get it. Thats like saying the member that asked for the HOST file should have got it. You feel it should be optional when you don't even use the **** pack. That reallys help. Since you feel that way, you should create an update just for jds since you and him are seeing eye to eye or STFU before I get banned.

When I have spoken up in this thread it has usually been to help or to give information. The only reason I have interjected myself this time is because of your attitude toward jds. (And believe me I now wish I had just stayed out of it.)

jds DOES, or DOES WANT to use your package, and has contributed to the project, and made a request based upon your previous statements about "suggestions" and "compromise." You in turn flew off the handle at him, and accused him of whining. A simple "no thanks, I believe NUSB should remain mandatory" would have sufficed. It IS your project, but there is no need to attack people who make requests or suggestions, especially when you asked for them!

Under certain conditions I might use or recommend the use of a Service Pack. I personally have no need of it because I can slipstream the updates that I want. But I have tried to help make it better for others, and I have spoken for others who couldn't be bothered to post, or didn't bother to post at the risk of being treated like you treated jds.

#1736
PROBLEMCHYLD

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but there is no need to attack people who make requests or suggestions, especially when you asked for them!

You still don't get it do you? It not about the requests, its about how certain individuals want what they want and is not considered of others. Those files has been there for a long time. Now that this one person has a problem, I'm suppose to dismantle the SP for one person to benefit.
Once you and him realize that, I think we will get along a lot better.

It's really not that hard. You simply have the original MS version install by default and have a nice little checkbox for "Install Patched SHELL32.DLL & EXLPORER.EXE (Bugfix + Updated Icons, Removed Shortcut Arrows)

Unless you take countless hours out your day and sacrifice certain things, then you don't know how hard it is.
What if one user want the arrows removed, but don't want the icons changed.
Another option has to be added. A patch has to be created. Things has to be tested.
So, easy doesn't define the tasks thats ahead.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 06 September 2012 - 05:12 PM.

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#1737
LoneCrusader

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You still don't get it do you? It not about the requests, its about how certain individuals want what they want and is not considered of others.

You still don't get it either. It's not about what decisions YOU make with YOUR own project, it's your attitude toward other people that have posted here that I have a problem with.

Jumping down jds's throat because he made a request, and this "person A will receive updates but person B won't" business is extremely childish.

And how was jds "not being considerate of others" by asking that something be made optional? It's not like he asked for it to be removed! :blink:

Unless you take countless hours out your day and sacrifice certain things, then you don't know how hard it is.
What if one user want the arrows removed, but don't want the icons removed.
Another option has to be added. A patch ahs to be created. Things has to be tested.
So, easy doesn't define the tasks thats ahead.

I just said that it isn't up to you to create the "missing" patches. If someone creates them, great. If not, then too bad. All I said was that there should be options for the ones that ALREADY exist.

Edited by LoneCrusader, 06 September 2012 - 05:13 PM.


#1738
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Show me where he asked. I guess if every single person contribute then I would have to add what they want too.

Another SP item that should be an optional install : Adaptec Windows ASPI driver (version v4.71.2).

Joe.

So, if you call should asking then I was totally wrong.

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U98SESP3 03-11-2013


#1739
LoneCrusader

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Show me where he asked. I guess if every single person contribute then I would have to add what they want too.


Another SP item that should be an optional install : Adaptec Windows ASPI driver (version v4.71.2).

Joe.

So, if you call should asking then I was totally wrong.

I'm not referring to the ASPI layer business. You didn't attack jds for that. You attacked him for making the USB request. Here it is:

Last night, I installed SP3.5 on my 98SE laptop which had IE5.01SP2 and KernelEx 4.52. I selected about 2/3 of the options. All went smoothly. :thumbup

One thing I'd request though ... Can the USB drivers in the future SP3.6 be made optional? I won't benefit from USB 2.0 drivers on my USB 1.1 machines, and I've already got Intel's drivers running on my USB 2.0 machine. As I'm happy with the USB drivers I already use, I'd rather not mess with them, if and when I chose to install the SP on my remaining machines.

Joe.

(emphasis mine)

#1740
PROBLEMCHYLD

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And this is why we are at war. I didn't attack him for requesting NUSB to be optional. I attacked because he wants to use the SP but doesn't want to follow the instructions by not removing his intel drivers.
So who fault is that. I keep saying follow the instructions. This is old news. I have moved on from this and so has he.
So why are you keeping up the bul*****?

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 06 September 2012 - 05:41 PM.

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#1741
LoneCrusader

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And this is why we are at war. He said he didn't want to follow the instructions by not removing his intel drivers.
So who fault is that. I keep saying follow the instructions. This is old news. I have moved on from this and so has he.
So why are you keeping up the bul*****?

If all of us followed the instructions we would be running Windows 7. If all of us followed the instructions then we would have burned our Windows 9x hardware and software and be singing the praises of Microsoft.

If jds prefers to use his Intel USB2 drivers, then he has every right to, regardless of what you think about it.

And the instructions are irrelevant here. He did not get any errors from his "lack of following them." He simply requested that a part of the SP be made optional, and you got mad about it. End of story.

I think I've made my point.

#1742
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I think I've made my point.

Thats your problem, you think too much with that simpleton brain of yours.
Stop thinking and learn something for a change.

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#1743
LoneCrusader

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I think I've made my point.

Thats your problem, you think too much with that simpleton brain of yours.
Stop thinking and learn something for a change.

Nice.

Have a nice day! :hello:

#1744
submix8c

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HOLY CROW! I leave for a while to spar with political opposites (elsewhere) and come back to THIS?

As a co-worker once said in a meeting... SHUSH!

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#1745
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Nice.

Have a nice day! :hello:

Who's here to defend you Mr. Peacemaker. You couldn't leave well enough alone.
I told you, you talk too much. I'm going to have a drink and ease my mind.
Whenever you want it, I got it for you and anyone else.

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#1746
Steven W

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PROBLEMCHYLD if you do go private with it, put me on the list. I've been wanting to try it out for a long time, finally may get the chance as soon as I straighten 98 SE out on this computer (Using a Linux distro's live-cd to post). No offense intended to anyone, but PROBLEMCHYLD is the one who got off his butt and made this happen, so he can call it what he wants and add what he wants. Don't like it? Don't use it!

Edited by Steven W, 06 September 2012 - 06:54 PM.


#1747
jds

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All this because one person didn't like ASPI drivers.

No, actually. I blame you. If you have nothing constructive to contribute, why open up a hornet's nest?

I hope some day you encounter a problem and when you report it, you are told that you're the only one to report it, etc., etc.

I gave all relevant details concerning the issue, so anyone can replicate it if they so wish. Reasonably, any component of the SP that may break things should be optional. Making things optional just for someone's personal preferences could be considered unreasonable, since we don't want a myriad of install options without good reason.

Joe.

PS. That last comment is not meant to imply that there aren't other legitimate reasons for something to be made optional in the SP (for example, any stuff that goes beyond the scope of a service pack).

Edited by jds, 06 September 2012 - 08:15 PM.


#1748
PROBLEMCHYLD

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PROBLEMCHYLD if you do go private with it, put me on the list. I've been wanting to try it out for a long time, finally may get the chance as soon as I straighten 98 SE out on this computer (Using a Linux distro's live-cd to post). No offense intended to anyone, but PROBLEMCHYLD is the one who got off his butt and made this happen, so he can call it what he wants and add what he wants. Don't like it? Don't use it!

All friends of mines will get updated versions. Even some people that's not listed as my friends will get updates.
Just because I don't have you listed, doesn't mean you are not my friends. You know who you are. I'm tired of this s***.
If you don't like what's in the SP then don't use it. It don't get no simpler than that. BOTTOM F***ING LINE!

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 06 September 2012 - 08:15 PM.

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#1749
rloew

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All friends of mines will get updated versions. Even some people that's not listed as my friends will get updates.
Just because I don't have you listed, doesn't mean you are not my friends. You know who you are. I'm tired of this s***.

Limiting it would be a bad idea. I suspect that most of the users of a SP will be novices and others who are not even members. When I read this thread, I see that Guest users make up most of the people reading this thread at the same time.

If you don't like what's in the SP then don't use it. It don't get no simpler than that.

It may be simple but in the long run it leads to people creating different versions to accomodate their needs and publishing them if others have the same issues.
Soon you have 40 alternative SPs instead of the 4 you kept referring to recently. This just leads to confusion and even more questions from inexperienced users.
Ye who enter my domain. Beware! Lest you become educated in the mysteries of the universe and suffer forever from the desire to know more.

#1750
bphlpt

bphlpt

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No one asked my opinion, but...

I, like many others I believe, haven't used Win9x in a long time. But I admire the tenacity of those who are willing to put forth the effort to beat it into shape to work with both older and newer hardware and software and I hope this project will continue. It's nice to have an extra tool in your toolbox "just in case". It gives folks an option that they might not have otherwise. And I guess "option" has become the key word here lately.

I definitely understand PROBLEMCHYLD's frustration.

Some prefer a system as close to the original versions of either Win95, Win98, or ME as possible, just updated. They want to maintain the original look of whichever OS they like. And those versions are all different enough to matter to those that have a preference. Some have older hardware they want/need to utilize while others want to run on as modern equipment that they can find and afford. And darn those equipment manufacturers, they haven't maintained/created 9x drivers, or worse, some seem to be incompatible with others - USB and ASPI being two that have been mentioned here lately. Some want the minimal amount of things added or changed, some want things removed to emphasize speed for gaming or whatever, and some want the most functionality they can get in one package. Some want the convenience of as few pieces to have to install as possible, while others want the flexibility of being able to fine tune their install based on hardware or software circumstances or needs.

And then there are folks, like me, who want it all - the Swiss army knife approach. We want ease of installation with the most power and capability we can get with the fewest amount of steps required. What can I say? We're lazy, too. LOL So we want a SP with as many things crammed into it that we can possibly get if there is even a remote chance we will ever use it, and we want it to enable us to use as many 3rd party apps that can possibly run on Win9x, and we want it to look good too. And be fast, and secure, and small, and run on any hardware that exists, etc, etc. And we're cheap, so we want it to be free, and available right now, and with full support and hand holding to get it to work. And we want to put in new requests when we think of something or read about somebody else having something and have those requests filled in a reasonable time period - a day or two should be plenty. And we're reasonable people. In order to accommodate those who have different needs than we do, it is perfectly alright to just make everything an option. That way it will work for everyone! In other words, a totally impossible task for ANYONE to ever do even if they had unlimited time, funds, and knowledge. So that just ain't happening, and we know it. Well, rloew and a few others might have achieved that resulting system, but not in one single SP. :)

A few people, not enough, praise the work that has been done by PROBLEMCHYLD and encourage him, maybe even helping out with code, links, info, or just testing on their own system and providing feedback. Some just ask for more, some nicely with justification, examples, links, etc, and some rudely, complaining, belittling, whining, etc. Many, unfortunately, say nothing, just watching to see what happens. Either they don't want to be a bother if someone else has already mentioned what they were thinking about, they don't want to make anybody mad, they don't want to look foolish themselves, they don't know what they want, or they just don't have a strong opinion either way so they will go along with the majority because the majority must know what the best thing is, right?

It is very obvious to all of us that there is absolutely no possible way to satisfy all of the folks described above and make them all happy bunnies. No way. No how. Ain't happening. Never. So what to do?

I believe Gape began this project in the spirit of continuing what MS had been doing as far as releasing Service Packs - fixing bugs and occasionally adding features. Some people appreciated some of the extra features that were added, they would have added them anyway so this made it more convenient, while others thought it was getting away from the "pure" SP approach. So Gape couldn't please everybody either, but I don't remember many options available in his version.

As PROBLEMCHYLD took up the torch, after it had lain dormant for a long time with no one else volunteering, and he added more features, that pleased one set of folks while making it less likely to be used by others - a bigger set of unhappy bunnies. But, admit it, the user base for this has gotten smaller as well, and more specialized. Win98 no longer is a factor for the average computer user. Some of our forum readers were in diapers when Win98 came out originally. :) I remember that PROBLEMCHYLD asked for opinions and requests for what should be added from the beginning of his involvement. There was a lot of give and take early on, but as SP3 progressed from 3.1 to the present 3.6, PROBLEMCHYLD has been trying to "finalize" his pack. After all, Win98 isn't going to change anymore, so other than an occasional bugfix, or an enhancement if anyone figures out how to add something to it from Win2K or XP, or it is decided to add another feature or function, it seems like it should be able to be finalized. So I'm sure some of the recent requests for changes caught PROBLEMCHYLD somewhat off guard. Why the requests weren't brought up earlier, or by others, I don't know.

I, like jaclaz, thought that the request by jds was reasonable and made politely and with concrete examples as to why. That was jds's right to do so. PROBLEMCHYLD declined, as was his right as well. He probably should have been a little more tactful in his refusal, but he might have been having a bad day, and like I said, it seemed like it caught him off guard. Since then, people have chimed in on both sides of the argument, but the discussion has been reduced to "name calling" type arguments by both sides, and as submix8c has said, I hope both sides will just hush, drop back, and start over calmly and respectfully. Most of the folks involved in the latest part of this thread have contributed to this project in one way or another over the years, if in no other way than providing constructive input or feedback so we all deserve a better class of discussion than what this has turned into. Both sides should treat the other with the same respect that they wish to be treated. I hope we can turn this around.

Where do we go from here?

This is PROBLEMCHYLD's project. He can do with it whatever he wants, in any way he wants, on whatever schedule he wants, with whatever distribution method he wants. PERIOD.

He has asked for input. Until he decides that he no longer wants any input, anyone that has any requests or opinions should state them clearly and respectfully with as much documentation and justification as possible and I'm sure that PROBLEMCHYLD will carefully consider them. EVERYONE who agrees with the request, especially if they can add any information, should also do so respectfully. If you disagree with a request or opinion you should post that as well, along with reasons why. That way PROBLEMCHYLD can get a better feel for how widespread an issue truly is. No this isn't a popularity contest, but if PROBLEMCHYLD wants to make his SP useful for the largest group possible he needs this type of feedback. If something can be made into an option he might consider that, but options increase the complexity of the pack and he is only one guy. If anyone can help implement an option, or provide examples of other places it has been done, assist in testing, debugging, or in any other way, perhaps even a donation, I'm sure he would welcome the help.

If PROBLEMCHYLD decides he no longer wants any input, then he should state that and we must respect that. It is still OK to let him know about issues your particular hardware or software has with the SP, or even make a request, but if he says that it is going to stay like it is he does not have to give any reason why, we just need to drop the request. He could also just ignore the post, but I hope he will at least acknowledge it, even if he just politely says no.

Either way, we all must participate in this project. If you read the thread, then post and say something. Positive or negative (respectfully), but say SOMETHING! PROBLEMCHYLD, or any creator of any product, cannot operate in a vacuum and be expected to turn out a product that meets anyone's needs but his own.

I agree with rloew that I think it will be better if PROBLEMCHYLD does not limit distribution of his SP. Even if he only cared about his own use for the pack, feedback from others could help find bugs that he might otherwise have missed. Also, the Win9x community is shrinking so much that it needs all the help from as many people as it can get. The user base is shrinking so much that rloew's point of the possibility of multiple versions of the pack being created as a result of the limited distribution of the SP would probably not happen. Instead, I think it is more likely that more people would either not be able to put together a working system or decide it just wasn't worth the trouble and the Win 9x community would shrink even further even faster.

Not that it matters, and maybe a little OT, but for comparison, we could look at a couple of projects that are being done for other versions of Windows.

tomasz86 is doing work toward a SP for Win2K. Up until now he has been doing it in several pieces with the eventual goal of combining it into one. I'm sure that will also please one group while alienating another that would prefer the pieces be kept separate, but we'll see. He is also just one guy doing this, but BlackWingCat and Wild Bill are both doing kernel extension work and Bristols and others provide and update information regarding hotfixes. acus helps repack XP hotfixes for Win2K use and there are several folks that help with testing and feedback. HFSLIP can still be used to slipstream and update Win2K with the SP pieces and individual hotfixes. Overall, tomasz86 has a fair amount of support, and a presence on several forums.

XP has many, many options for updating and modification. Two different update packs are available with different approaches, a "minimalist" approach by user_hidden, and an "AIO" approach by OnePiece. Several different tools can be used, including nLite, RVMi, HFSLIP, along with other update scripts, with many forums available with feedback, advice and support. The level of support is legion.

PROBLEMCHYLD is just one guy and is only here, AFAIK. Anyone that wants Win9x to continue for whatever reason should support whoever is willing to do any work at all toward this goal in anyway that you can.

Sorry, I didn't mean to carry on quite this long. .-::[/End of Rant]::-.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt, 07 September 2012 - 09:13 AM.

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