[shadell]

On both PCs I have tried W98 SP2 on, there is now an entry in the task bar called "Screen Saver" that persists after a screen saver has stopped running. I find this very annoying. Does anyone else have this?

Does anyone know the particular update responsible, so I can try and exclude it?

[shadell]

The problem is worse than I thought - it isn't just the screen saver that makes these 'ghost' task bar entries.

The updates at fault are given here:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/microsoft...79892a77bb6f493

Updating video drivers and changing screen savers made no difference. Nor were there any associated uninstall inf files for the 2 updates in question that I could find, since they both came via SP2.

So I copied back user.exe and user.dll from my drive image in DOS mode, and the problem is gone.

My questions now are:

Were there any other files involved in those fixes? In which case I now have half a fix, which does not seem like a good idea...

Is there a way of solving the problem that keeps the fixes?

Could W98 SP2 have an option not to install those 2 updates?

[Petr]

shadell, on Feb 14 2006, 02:05 AM, said:

The problem is worse than I thought - it isn't just the screen saver that makes these 'ghost' task bar entries.

The updates at fault are given here:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/microsoft...79892a77bb6f493

Updating video drivers and changing screen savers made no difference. Nor were there any associated uninstall inf files for the 2 updates in question that I could find, since they both came via SP2.

So I copied back user.exe and user.dll from my drive image in DOS mode, and the problem is gone.

My questions now are:

Were there any other files involved in those fixes? In which case I now have half a fix, which does not seem like a good idea...

Is there a way of solving the problem that keeps the fixes?

Could W98 SP2 have an option not to install those 2 updates?

There are the following versions of user.exe:

4.10.2222 original Windows 98 SE
4.10.2223 Q242934
4.10.2225 Q258070
4.10.2226 Q242975-v2
4.10.2227 Q260067
4.10.2228 Q262830
4.10.2229 Q265115
4.10.2230 Q277822
4.10.2231 Q291362

If this is problem of all versions other than the original 4.10.2222 then the only possibility could be the modify the newest version - but it would need a skilled hacker I think. Microsoft will not fix this bug because it is not critical security issue.

Petr

[LLXX]

I'm just using the original 4.10.2222 USER.EXE, I haven't had any problems with it.

[erpdude8]

shadell, on Feb 13 2006, 05:49 PM, said:

On both PCs I have tried W98 SP2 on, there is now an entry in the task bar called "Screen Saver" that persists after a screen saver has stopped running. I find this very annoying. Does anyone else have this?

Does anyone know the particular update responsible, so I can try and exclude it?

Read Microsoft support KB article 280722 about the "screen saver" taskbar icon problem:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/280722

I had this problem under Win98se with Q260067 or higher hotfix (latest is Q291362) installed but I'm no longer bothered by it. I simply just click on those "screen saver" icons on the taskbar to make them disappear and things will continue as normal.

Petr, on Feb 14 2006, 12:44 AM, said:

shadell, on Feb 14 2006, 02:05 AM, said:

The problem is worse than I thought - it isn't just the screen saver that makes these 'ghost' task bar entries.

The updates at fault are given here:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/microsoft...79892a77bb6f493

Updating video drivers and changing screen savers made no difference. Nor were there any associated uninstall inf files for the 2 updates in question that I could find, since they both came via SP2.

So I copied back user.exe and user.dll from my drive image in DOS mode, and the problem is gone.

My questions now are:

Were there any other files involved in those fixes? In which case I now have half a fix, which does not seem like a good idea...

Is there a way of solving the problem that keeps the fixes?

Could W98 SP2 have an option not to install those 2 updates?

There are the following versions of user.exe:

4.10.2222 original Windows 98 SE
4.10.2223 Q242934
4.10.2225 Q258070
4.10.2226 Q242975-v2
4.10.2227 Q260067
4.10.2228 Q262830
4.10.2229 Q265115
4.10.2230 Q277822
4.10.2231 Q291362

If this is problem of all versions other than the original 4.10.2222 then the only possibility could be the modify the newest version - but it would need a skilled hacker I think. Microsoft will not fix this bug because it is not critical security issue.

Petr

To answer shadell's question of W98se SP2 pack of having an option not to install the updated user.exe and user32.dll files, I would give the answer a resounding NO! Like I said before, this bug is no longer that annoying; just click on the darn "ghost" icons on the taskbar to elliminate them.

And responding to what Petr said about the versions of the user.exe/user32.dll files. The problem CAN happen with version 4.10.2222 of the user.exe and user32.dll files IF the KB891711, TI891711 or U891711 update is installed. When the KB891711.EXE and Q891711.DLL files are loaded at startup (regardless of the user.exe/user32.dll version used under Win98se) the problem will still occur.

If you are still skeptical on what I said above, restore the user.exe and user32.dll files to version 4.10.2222 and install the 891711 update. Then you will see that the task bar icon bug will occur. If you remove the 891711 patch (or prevent the 891711 files from loading at startup while using original USER files), the problem will go away.

This post has been edited by erpdude8: 14 February 2006 - 06:51 AM

[shadell]

erpdude8, on Feb 14 2006, 12:49 PM, said:

To answer shadell's question of W98se SP2 pack of having an option not to install the updated user.exe and user32.dll files, I would give the answer a resounding NO! Like I said before, this bug is no longer that annoying; just click on the darn "ghost" icons on the taskbar to elliminate them.

You say the bug is no longer that annoying - that is totally subjective.

You say say 'a resounding NO!' to the idea of having an option not to install it. What harm could such an option do? Why would you say such a thing?

In summary I can find no sense in your comments.

I fix PCs for a living. I want to be able to apply SP2 to a customer's PC when I service it. The ghost taskbar entries are going to be easily noticed by my customers, meaning as far they as they are concerned I have made their PC worse. It is caused by a fix for a problem that will happen to almost nobody. So an option not to install it is near essential to me.

[erpdude8]

shadell, on Jul 31 2006, 03:24 PM, said:

I fix PCs for a living. I want to be able to apply SP2 to a customer's PC when I service it. The ghost taskbar entries are going to be easily noticed by my customers, meaning as far they as they are concerned I have made their PC worse. It is caused by a fix for a problem that will happen to almost nobody. So an option not to install it is near essential to me.

an option to not install the updated user files in the next release of the 98se SP is out of the question, shadell. sorry. we're still not sure if we can add that option (unless you can actually help us implement that option but it seems like you're too busy to help us or dont come here often enough).

besides, I use third party screen savers on a Win98se PC which do NOT cause those ghost taskbar problems. either use 3rd party screen savers or disable using ANY screen savers from the Display control panel app. period! DONT use ANY Microsoft screen savers which cause the problems in the first place and Microsoft didnt bother to patch the "screen saver" icon bug in 98 SE.

besides, you can NOT "pick and choose" which updated 98se files to install from the 98se SP anyway. so why bother.

AND if you use the original USER.EXE and USER32.DLL v4.10.2222 files BUT install KB891711 or U891711 patch, you will have the "screen saver" icon problem again. But if you do NOT install KB891711 or U891711 the screen saver taskbar problem goes away BUT you will leave yourself vulnerable to the security problems in MS security bulletin MS05-002. so you're pretty much stuck, shadell. long term solution is to either disable using screen savers or use 3rd party screen savers.

at least this problem has been "mostly" fixed in WinME since I only get one screen saver taskbar icon in ME and not multiple screen saver icons. next time the screen saver taskbar icon either stays or goes away in ME.

I'll ask the rest of the people here and see what they think.

This post has been edited by erpdude8: 02 August 2006 - 04:39 PM

[erpdude8]

reaction from some other people from this forum about the screen saver taskbar problem:

Quote

The screen saver taskbar problem is just a cosmetic bug. So i don't bother trying to fix it. Click on the ghost button and it's gone. Why break something else just to save a single click

Quote

I'd say for them to either ignore the message or upgrade to the ME files.

obviously, shadell, you have NOT really convinced us that the screen saver taskbar problem causes major problems (besides, where have you been this time, shadell? you have not been here for 5 months since your previous post, geez). does it cause blue screen errors, crashes or freezes on the Win98se PCs? NO! On my Win98se computer I've tested, the screen saver icon taskbar problem is practically harmless; I just click on those screen saver icons and they go away and Win98se continues on as if nothing bad happened. so adding the option to not install the user files in 98se SP is NOT necessary. end of story

This post has been edited by erpdude8: 03 August 2006 - 10:45 AM

[krick]

Seriously, who uses screensavers anymore? They're so 1989.

[Eck]

I still use them, but not in the way that they could annoy me. I just preview them when I want to see them. Don't leave 'em running in the background, just set to none and run a preview when in the mood.

Besides, I just discovered all those cool old AfterDark screensavers. I think we're talking 1996 here! But I've only used them on XP. I hunted around and discovered how to install them there. BadDog is a gas. Since the thing runs in the background even when turned off, I didn't want to install it to 98. I figured XP can handle a little systray icon and a couple of itsy bitsy processes but I like to keep my 98 clean of stuff like that.

But, yeah, tell the customers to just either use Standby, hibernate, or even better just turn off the monitor when they go away for a while. ScreenSavers are just for entertainment these days. They don't serve a usefull purpose.

And I never noticed that bug. Guess I don't use the Microsoft screensavers too much. Always install the 891711 unofficial patch and the KRNL386 update. Why? Cause Dr. MDGx says so! Always listen to the Doctor.

[erpdude8]

shadell, on Jul 31 2006, 03:24 PM, said:

The ghost taskbar entries are going to be easily noticed by my customers, meaning as far they as they are concerned I have made their PC worse. It is caused by a fix for a problem that will happen to almost nobody.

balderdash. nonsense. does the ghostly screen saver taskbar icons cause crashes, blue screen errors or lockups? you have not been able to prove that.

I have installed the latest version of Tihiy's Windows 98 Revolutions pack and it seemed to have mostly fixed the multiple screen saver taskbar icon problem on my old Win98se computer. one good reason to install and use Tihiy's Win98 Revo pack. With the RPLite5 pack installed under Win98se, only one ghost screen saver taskbar icon only appears and would sometimes disappear or wont display multiple ghost icons.

Tihiy rules! and shadell's a fool!

[winxpi]

So know I'm in the second topic about the issue

erpdude8, on Aug 4 2006, 06:38 PM, said:

shadell, on Jul 31 2006, 03:24 PM, said:

The ghost taskbar entries are going to be easily noticed by my customers, meaning as far they as they are concerned I have made their PC worse. It is caused by a fix for a problem that will happen to almost nobody.

balderdash. nonsense. does the ghostly screen saver taskbar icons cause crashes, blue screen errors or lockups? you have not been able to prove that.

I have installed the latest version of Tihiy's Windows 98 Revolutions pack and it seemed to have mostly fixed the multiple screen saver taskbar icon problem on my old Win98se computer. one good reason to install and use Tihiy's Win98 Revo pack. With the RPLite5 pack installed under Win98se, only one ghost screen saver taskbar icon only appears and would sometimes disappear or wont display multiple ghost icons.

Tihiy rules! and shadell's a fool!

I remember it causing a hanging on my system.
But I don't know if there are maybe relative versions of this bug that look like this one but are caused by other files or have worse symptoms.


This is how it looks like and how we don't wan't it to look like *g* :

This post has been edited by winxpi: 05 August 2006 - 11:50 PM

[winxpi]

Petr, on Feb 14 2006, 12:44 AM, said:

shadell, on Feb 14 2006, 02:05 AM, said:

The problem is worse than I thought - it isn't just the screen saver that makes these 'ghost' task bar entries.

The updates at fault are given here:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/microsoft...79892a77bb6f493

Updating video drivers and changing screen savers made no difference. Nor were there any associated uninstall inf files for the 2 updates in question that I could find, since they both came via SP2.

So I copied back user.exe and user.dll from my drive image in DOS mode, and the problem is gone.

My questions now are:

Were there any other files involved in those fixes? In which case I now have half a fix, which does not seem like a good idea...

Is there a way of solving the problem that keeps the fixes?

Could W98 SP2 have an option not to install those 2 updates?

There are the following versions of user.exe:

4.10.2222 original Windows 98 SE
4.10.2223 Q242934
4.10.2225 Q258070
4.10.2226 Q242975-v2
4.10.2227 Q260067
4.10.2228 Q262830
4.10.2229 Q265115
4.10.2230 Q277822
4.10.2231 Q291362

If this is problem of all versions other than the original 4.10.2222 then the only possibility could be the modify the newest version - but it would need a skilled hacker I think. Microsoft will not fix this bug because it is not critical security issue.

Petr

Ok I tested this:

4.10.2222 user32.dll,user.exe ok (no ghost taskbar entry appears)

4.10.2227 user32.dll +4.10.2227 user.exe --> not ok (ghost taskbar entry appears)

4.10.2223 user32.dll,user.exe --> ok (no ghost taskbar entry appears)

4.10.2223 user32.dll +4.10.2226 user.exe --> not ok (ghost taskbar entry appears)


user32.dll file version shouldn't be greater than the user.exe file version else Windows can't start:

4.10.2231 user32.dll +4.10.2223 user.exe --> Windows starts with error message

4.10.2227 user32.dll +4.10.2223 user.exe --> Windows starts with error message

4.10.2227 user32.dll +4.10.2226 user.exe --> Windows starts with error message

So it's user.exe that causes the problems.
The Problem occured on my system on tests with user.exe 4.10.2226 but I believe user.exe 4.10.2225 is the first file that has this bug.

This post has been edited by winxpi: 06 August 2006 - 08:05 AM

[erpdude8]

interesting enough, winxpi, I installed MDGx's 98SE2ME pack with option 1 on a Win98se PC which installed version 4.90.3001 of the user.exe & user32.dll files and that also caused the multiple screen saver bug. BUT when I installed 98SE2ME again with option 3 to replace the 98se Explorer/Shell interface with the ME Explorer/Shell interface, the bug was "partially" fixed and prevented the bug from getting worse. got same results when installing Tihiy's RPLite5 pack with Shell Update option checked and the problem was mitigated.

so replacing the 98se Explorer interface with the ME Explorer may fix the problem, sort of.

This post has been edited by erpdude8: 07 August 2006 - 08:40 AM