HFSLIP - Test releases

[LordWarlock]

The "fragged" sysoc.inf works fine and has been working fine since the inception of hfslip. Honestly, I don't see the point of defragging it. I suppose it could be good for users, and if it's good, they can incorporate their own hftools\post cmd file.

Perhaps the fact that the hfslip entries get busted once you try to uninstall any component using the add/remove components window and that it doesn't happen when the file is defraged is good enough reason.

[tommyp]

Can someone point my feeble mind to a concise method of doing the sysoc defrag? There's solutions in the defrag thread that I'm sure that some work and some don't. I'm not sure which is the correct method that works 100% of the time. Actually I kind of prefer to use all CMDs instead of additional hftools.

[Lilla]

Tommyp,

I've found what is possibly a bug in the beta release, or maybe not - I'm a little confused on this.

Issue: Printer "Microsoft XPS Document Writer" is missing after installing .NET Framework 3.5 SP1

What I did that resulted in issue above...

o Created CD using HFSLIP Beta H (Feb 24) release;

included almost all updates from mino's list up through Mar 24 2010 (when I created this build);

did not include any drivers; did not use HFCleanup, Nlite, or Ryan stuff.

Started with Source from Windows XP Pro from MSDN CD (Home + Pro) using Pro branch only.

Included SysocDefrag.exe and HFSLIP_POST_Sysoc2Defrag.cmd

o Installed Windows XP Pro (to fully formatted HDD) using HFSLIP CD

o I next installed the critical updates from Microsoft Updates

o Then I installed some optional updates from Microsoft Updates

including .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (includes .NET Framework 2.0 SP2 and .NET Framework 3.0 SP2)

o I restart the computer (just to be sure)

o I then checked printers control panel, and found that "Microsoft XPS Document Writer" (part of .NET Framework 3.0) was not installed. It should be there.

I would appreciate it if others using the beta (and 1.7.9 final) would check and post if they are getting the same?

Is it possible that .NET Framework 3.0 SP2 nolonger installs this printer driver? The page below sounds like it still does, but I see no date on this page.

About Microsoft XPS Document Writer

The Microsoft XPS Document Writer (MXDW) is a print-to-file driver that enables any application to create XML Paper Specification (XPS) Document files on versions of Windows staring with Windows XP SP2. ...snip... MXDW is installed automatically when the operating system is installed.

Windows XP SP2 and Windows Server 2003 : Download and install either .Net Framework 3.0 or the XPS Essential Pack from Microsoft.

I've attached my log file.

Thanks, Lilla

HFSLIP.zip

Edited April 2, 2010 by Lilla

[tommyp]

Feel like trying a little design of experiments? You can use a VM for this.

a - Install the original install disk (non-hfslip) and then installing dotnet 3.5. This will say whether it's hfslip's fault.

b - Run hfslip without the sysoc thing.

c - Run hfslip without IE8.

[Lilla]

Feel like trying a little design of experiments? You can use a VM for this.

a - Install the original install disk (non-hfslip) and then installing dotnet 3.5. This will say whether it's hfslip's fault.

b - Run hfslip without the sysoc thing.

c - Run hfslip without IE8.

Thanks for reply.

Yes, I can do experiments. Will report back with results.

Lilla

Edited April 3, 2010 by Lilla

[Lilla]

Feel like trying a little design of experiments? You can use a VM for this.

a - Install the original install disk (non-hfslip) and then installing dotnet 3.5. This will say whether it's hfslip's fault.

b - Run hfslip without the sysoc thing.

c - Run hfslip without IE8.

Tommyp,

I added tests d & e.

a - Install the original install disk (non-hfslip) and then installing dotnet 3.5. This will say whether it's hfslip's fault. In this case I installed SP3 and windows .NET Framework 3.5 from windows update site.

b - Run hfslip without the sysoc defrag utility.

c - Run hfslip without IE8. I omitted the updates/files for IE8, and included the updates for IE6.

d - Run hfslip with SP3 only. I included file WindowsXP-KB936929-SP3-x86-ENU.exe only.

e - Run hfslip with main updates only: SP3, IE8, WMP11, RDC7

The result of the experiments above is shown below. I didn't use VM. I made CDs and installed each on my workbench PC. I used mimo's update list (Last list update: 2010, March, 31). Using hfslip-1.7.10_beta_H.cmd

After installing Win XP Pro from HFSLIP CD and installing dotnet 3.5 from Windows Update site...

a - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was present. This is the expected result.

b - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was NOT present. This is NOT the expected result.

c - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was NOT present. This is NOT the expected result.

d - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was present. This is the expected result.

e - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was present. This is the expected result.

My conclusion, there is a problem, but further testing is required to determine where.

If you need me to run further experiments, please advise.

Thank you for your efforts in making this such a great tool.

Lilla

experiment_b_HFSLIP_LOG.zip

experiment_c_HFSLIP_LOG.zip

experiment_d_HFSLIP_LOG.zip

Edited April 4, 2010 by Lilla

[tommyp]

Can you narrow down the sysoc and ie8 issue? If it's an sysoc issue, then just don't use it. If it's an ie8 issue, I doubt I'll be able to fix the problem unless someone tells me what file is missing or if there is too many extra files. I prefer to spend my time not even thinking about hfslip.

[Lilla]

Can you narrow down the sysoc and ie8 issue? If it's an sysoc issue, then just don't use it. If it's an ie8 issue, I doubt I'll be able to fix the problem unless someone tells me what file is missing or if there is too many extra files. I prefer to spend my time not even thinking about hfslip.

Tommyp,

But, I do not think it is an sysoc (sysoc defrag utility) or IE8 issue because the problem persists even when these are left out of the build! The problem being that after installing the OS from HFSLIP CD, printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' is not created when .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 is installed.

Any idea what I could try that would to help narrow the problem down?

Tonight I ran a new test (e). I added the test results to my post (here) above.

I'll run another test tomorrow. It's bed time now.

Lilla

Edited April 4, 2010 by Lilla

[bphlpt]

The problem being that after installing the OS from HFSLIP CD, printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' is not created when .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 is installed.

Maybe I'm not understanding. Have you narrowed it down to this? Is this true no matter what else is installed, or is the problem that somewhere between "e" and "everything" it breaks?

Since "e - Run hfslip with main updates only: SP3, IE8, WMP11, RDC7" works as it's supposed to, I guess the next, extremely laborious step would be to start adding everything else back in until it breaks. Mathematically inclined, I would try something along the lines of:

Put half of everything else back, if that doesn't work as expected, take that half back out and put the other half in. Now you know the problem's in one of those halves. Put the good half back in, and split the other half in half. Continue the process until you can narrow the issue down to what's causing the problem. Very time consuming I know, and if the problem is caused by the interaction between several items you might not ever narrow it down.

Good luck!

Cheers and Regards

Edited April 4, 2010 by bphlpt

[tommyp]

So with testing -e- of the main hotfixes everything works. I'd suggest that the following. If you are including MORE files in HF, you should RE-review each of the KB articles to see if you are having the described problem. Chances are extrememly slim that you are having the problem. Maybe one of the reg files is deleting something that is needed? With the sysoc thing, why not just set up your winnt.sif file to prevent the things you don't want (or include things you do want) instead of uninstalling/adding things afterward. Or perhaps it one of the hfaao's?

What bphlpt describes is what FDV and I call isosizing. It's the act of creating isos and installing via vm, then changing the hfslip structure a bit and re-create an iso and install via vm. Lather rinse repeat. HFCLEANUP took my some odd 50-60 isosizes. The weather is too nice to isosize.

[Lilla]

The problem being that after installing the OS from HFSLIP CD, printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' is not created when .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 is installed.

Is this true no matter what else is installed, or is the problem that somewhere between "e" and "everything" it breaks?

It's the later, the problem is introduced somewhere between "e" and "everything".

Thanks for your suggestion on how to narrow it down.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Lilla

[Lilla]

So with testing -e- of the main hotfixes everything works. I'd suggest that the following. If you are including MORE files in HF, you should RE-review each of the KB articles to see if you are having the described problem. Chances are extrememly slim that you are having the problem. Maybe one of the reg files is deleting something that is needed? With the sysoc thing, why not just set up your winnt.sif file to prevent the things you don't want (or include things you do want) instead of uninstalling/adding things afterward. Or perhaps it one of the hfaao's?

What bphlpt describes is what FDV and I call isosizing. It's the act of creating isos and installing via vm, then changing the hfslip structure a bit and re-create an iso and install via vm. Lather rinse repeat. HFCLEANUP took my some odd 50-60 isosizes. The weather is too nice to isosize.

Thanks for reply. Weather has been not that good here, rained like crazy yesterday.

Sounds like I should give VM a try, maybe it would speed up the iterations. Thanks for your suggestions on how to proceed. I will post again after my next test.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Lilla

[Lilla]

Progress report, insight into the problem, and the solution to the problem.

After installing Windows XP Pro from a CD created using HFSLIP. To date I have included all three printer updates (see quote box below), and most of the other updates on mimo's update list. It now appears that one or more of these printer updates is (most likely) causing the problem I am experiencing below.

Problem: Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' is not created (as should happen) when

'Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 and .NET Framework 3.5 Family update (KB951847) x86'

is installed. I installed this via Windows Update (or Microsoft Update) immediately after installing Windows.

The three updates below (on mimo's update list) are related to 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer'. KB971314 says "Therefore, all PCL inbox printer driver installations are unsuccessful."

So I began to wonder if installing one/all of these three printer updates (remember these updates were included in the HFSLIP build) on a machine with the problem (defined above) might cause the missing printer to show up. So I tried it on my workbench machine (running build from experiment c, see my earlier post), and it worked - the missing printer suddenly showed up.

Here's what I did...

o I first installed *KB961118*.exe, restarted computer, printer still missing.

o I next installed *KB971314*.exe, restarted computer, printer still missing.

o Then I installed *KB91276*.exe, restarted computer, and BAM the missing printer was now there. Actually, the printer showed up (under Control Panel > "Printers and Faxes") as soon as I finished installing this update, before I restarted the computer. I expected that *KB91276*.exe alone was enough, and futher testing confirmed this.

mimo's update list (Last list update: 2010, March 31)

2009-08 Printer Update (when XPSEPSC will be installed) Optional KB971276

WindowsXP-KB971276-v3-x86-ENU.exe (only in English) HF

2009-08 Printer Update (when NET 3.51 SP1 will be installed) Optional KB971314

WindowsXP-KB971314-x86-ENU.exe HF

2009-08 Printer Update (when NET 3.51 SP1 will be installed) Optional KB961118

WindowsXP-KB961118-x86-ENU.exe HF

Experiment -f-

I excluded the three printer updates above (also HFAAO, .reg tweaks, sysoc defrag util, and all updates required by Microsoft/Windows updates except those marked High Priority).

Test results: This install does not have the problem described above. In other words, after installing the .NET Framework component (via Windows Update), the printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' now exists (as should happen).

Experiment -g-

I added back all except the three printer updates. In other words, my normal build except that I leave out these three printer updates.

Test results: same as -g- results above.

Experiment -h-

Do a test to confirm that including these printer updates causes the problem described above. To do this test I added back in the three printer updates. In other words, this test includes the same files as -g- except that here I INCLUDE the three printer updates EXCLUDED in -g-.

Test results. Indeed, the problem (as described above) exists with this build.

My conclusion: Including these three printer files in my HFSLIP build caused the problem I explained above. It is possible that only one of them is causing the problem, but determining this would require further testing. At this point, it makes sense to me to exclude all three since .NET Framework is not part of my HFSLIP build.

Lilla

experiment_g_HFSLIP_LOG.zip

experiment_h_HFSLIP_LOG.zip

Edited April 6, 2010 by Lilla

[tommyp]

Glad you got it figured out Lilla. Thanks for posting the message on the xp updates thread for mimo. Doesn't it feel good to isosize?

[Lilla]

Glad you got it figured out Lilla. Thanks for posting the message on the xp updates thread for mimo. Doesn't it feel good to isosize?

I'm glad too. It feels good to have figured it out, and in only 8 iterations. Thanks for your support and guidance.

To reconsider what updates I was including was good advise, and is how I found the problem. However sometimes even after reading the KB article, it is hard to know if one should include or exclude an update. This is certainly the case with these three printer updates.

Now I need to figure out if after installing from an HFSLIP build that does not include these three printer updates, should I install all/some/none of these three printer updates after I install the .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (KB951847) update from Windows Update. I install .NET Framework immediately after installing Windows.

Lilla

Edited April 6, 2010 by Lilla