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HFSLIP - Test releases

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#2326
LordWarlock

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The "fragged" sysoc.inf works fine and has been working fine since the inception of hfslip. Honestly, I don't see the point of defragging it. I suppose it could be good for users, and if it's good, they can incorporate their own hftools\post cmd file.

Perhaps the fact that the hfslip entries get busted once you try to uninstall any component using the add/remove components window and that it doesn't happen when the file is defraged is good enough reason.


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#2327
tommyp

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Can someone point my feeble mind to a concise method of doing the sysoc defrag? There's solutions in the defrag thread that I'm sure that some work and some don't. I'm not sure which is the correct method that works 100% of the time. Actually I kind of prefer to use all CMDs instead of additional hftools.
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#2328
Lilla

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Tommyp,
I've found what is possibly a bug in the beta release, or maybe not - I'm a little confused on this.

Issue: Printer "Microsoft XPS Document Writer" is missing after installing .NET Framework 3.5 SP1

What I did that resulted in issue above...
o Created CD using HFSLIP Beta H (Feb 24) release;
included almost all updates from mino's list up through Mar 24 2010 (when I created this build);
did not include any drivers; did not use HFCleanup, Nlite, or Ryan stuff.
Started with Source from Windows XP Pro from MSDN CD (Home + Pro) using Pro branch only.
Included SysocDefrag.exe and HFSLIP_POST_Sysoc2Defrag.cmd
o Installed Windows XP Pro (to fully formatted HDD) using HFSLIP CD
o I next installed the critical updates from Microsoft Updates
o Then I installed some optional updates from Microsoft Updates
including .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (includes .NET Framework 2.0 SP2 and .NET Framework 3.0 SP2)
o I restart the computer (just to be sure)
o I then checked printers control panel, and found that "Microsoft XPS Document Writer" (part of .NET Framework 3.0) was not installed. It should be there.

I would appreciate it if others using the beta (and 1.7.9 final) would check and post if they are getting the same?

Is it possible that .NET Framework 3.0 SP2 nolonger installs this printer driver? The page below sounds like it still does, but I see no date on this page.

About Microsoft XPS Document Writer
The Microsoft XPS Document Writer (MXDW) is a print-to-file driver that enables any application to create XML Paper Specification (XPS) Document files on versions of Windows staring with Windows XP SP2. ...snip... MXDW is installed automatically when the operating system is installed.

Windows XP SP2 and Windows Server 2003 : Download and install either .Net Framework 3.0 or the XPS Essential Pack from Microsoft.

I've attached my log file.

Thanks, Lilla

Attached Files


Edited by Lilla, 01 April 2010 - 09:15 PM.


#2329
tommyp

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Feel like trying a little design of experiments? You can use a VM for this.
a - Install the original install disk (non-hfslip) and then installing dotnet 3.5. This will say whether it's hfslip's fault.
b - Run hfslip without the sysoc thing.
c - Run hfslip without IE8.
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#2330
Lilla

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Feel like trying a little design of experiments? You can use a VM for this.
a - Install the original install disk (non-hfslip) and then installing dotnet 3.5. This will say whether it's hfslip's fault.
b - Run hfslip without the sysoc thing.
c - Run hfslip without IE8.

Thanks for reply.
Yes, I can do experiments. Will report back with results.

Lilla

Edited by Lilla, 03 April 2010 - 01:06 PM.


#2331
Lilla

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Feel like trying a little design of experiments? You can use a VM for this.
a - Install the original install disk (non-hfslip) and then installing dotnet 3.5. This will say whether it's hfslip's fault.
b - Run hfslip without the sysoc thing.
c - Run hfslip without IE8.

Tommyp,
I added tests d & e.
a - Install the original install disk (non-hfslip) and then installing dotnet 3.5. This will say whether it's hfslip's fault. In this case I installed SP3 and windows .NET Framework 3.5 from windows update site.
b - Run hfslip without the sysoc defrag utility.
c - Run hfslip without IE8. I omitted the updates/files for IE8, and included the updates for IE6.
d - Run hfslip with SP3 only. I included file WindowsXP-KB936929-SP3-x86-ENU.exe only.
e - Run hfslip with main updates only: SP3, IE8, WMP11, RDC7

The result of the experiments above is shown below. I didn't use VM. I made CDs and installed each on my workbench PC. I used mimo's update list (Last list update: 2010, March, 31). Using hfslip-1.7.10_beta_H.cmd

After installing Win XP Pro from HFSLIP CD and installing dotnet 3.5 from Windows Update site...
a - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was present. This is the expected result.
b - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was NOT present. This is NOT the expected result.
c - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was NOT present. This is NOT the expected result.
d - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was present. This is the expected result.
e - Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' was present. This is the expected result.

My conclusion, there is a problem, but further testing is required to determine where.
If you need me to run further experiments, please advise.

Thank you for your efforts in making this such a great tool.

Lilla

Attached Files


Edited by Lilla, 03 April 2010 - 11:55 PM.


#2332
tommyp

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Can you narrow down the sysoc and ie8 issue? If it's an sysoc issue, then just don't use it. If it's an ie8 issue, I doubt I'll be able to fix the problem unless someone tells me what file is missing or if there is too many extra files. I prefer to spend my time not even thinking about hfslip.
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#2333
Lilla

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Can you narrow down the sysoc and ie8 issue? If it's an sysoc issue, then just don't use it. If it's an ie8 issue, I doubt I'll be able to fix the problem unless someone tells me what file is missing or if there is too many extra files. I prefer to spend my time not even thinking about hfslip.

Tommyp,

But, I do not think it is an sysoc (sysoc defrag utility) or IE8 issue because the problem persists even when these are left out of the build! The problem being that after installing the OS from HFSLIP CD, printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' is not created when .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 is installed.

Any idea what I could try that would to help narrow the problem down?
Tonight I ran a new test (e). I added the test results to my post (here) above.
I'll run another test tomorrow. It's bed time now.

Lilla

Edited by Lilla, 03 April 2010 - 11:54 PM.


#2334
bphlpt

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The problem being that after installing the OS from HFSLIP CD, printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' is not created when .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 is installed.


Maybe I'm not understanding. Have you narrowed it down to this? Is this true no matter what else is installed, or is the problem that somewhere between "e" and "everything" it breaks?

Since "e - Run hfslip with main updates only: SP3, IE8, WMP11, RDC7" works as it's supposed to, I guess the next, extremely laborious step would be to start adding everything else back in until it breaks. Mathematically inclined, I would try something along the lines of:

Put half of everything else back, if that doesn't work as expected, take that half back out and put the other half in. Now you know the problem's in one of those halves. Put the good half back in, and split the other half in half. Continue the process until you can narrow the issue down to what's causing the problem. Very time consuming I know, and if the problem is caused by the interaction between several items you might not ever narrow it down.

Good luck!

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt, 04 April 2010 - 02:56 AM.

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#2335
tommyp

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So with testing -e- of the main hotfixes everything works. I'd suggest that the following. If you are including MORE files in HF, you should RE-review each of the KB articles to see if you are having the described problem. Chances are extrememly slim that you are having the problem. Maybe one of the reg files is deleting something that is needed? With the sysoc thing, why not just set up your winnt.sif file to prevent the things you don't want (or include things you do want) instead of uninstalling/adding things afterward. Or perhaps it one of the hfaao's?

What bphlpt describes is what FDV and I call isosizing. It's the act of creating isos and installing via vm, then changing the hfslip structure a bit and re-create an iso and install via vm. Lather rinse repeat. HFCLEANUP took my some odd 50-60 isosizes. The weather is too nice to isosize.
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#2336
Lilla

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The problem being that after installing the OS from HFSLIP CD, printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' is not created when .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 is installed.


Is this true no matter what else is installed, or is the problem that somewhere between "e" and "everything" it breaks?

It's the later, the problem is introduced somewhere between "e" and "everything".

Thanks for your suggestion on how to narrow it down.

Edited by Lilla, 04 April 2010 - 09:36 AM.


#2337
Lilla

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So with testing -e- of the main hotfixes everything works. I'd suggest that the following. If you are including MORE files in HF, you should RE-review each of the KB articles to see if you are having the described problem. Chances are extrememly slim that you are having the problem. Maybe one of the reg files is deleting something that is needed? With the sysoc thing, why not just set up your winnt.sif file to prevent the things you don't want (or include things you do want) instead of uninstalling/adding things afterward. Or perhaps it one of the hfaao's?

What bphlpt describes is what FDV and I call isosizing. It's the act of creating isos and installing via vm, then changing the hfslip structure a bit and re-create an iso and install via vm. Lather rinse repeat. HFCLEANUP took my some odd 50-60 isosizes. The weather is too nice to isosize.

Thanks for reply. Weather has been not that good here, rained like crazy yesterday.

Sounds like I should give VM a try, maybe it would speed up the iterations. Thanks for your suggestions on how to proceed. I will post again after my next test.

Edited by Lilla, 04 April 2010 - 03:26 PM.


#2338
Lilla

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Progress report, insight into the problem, and the solution to the problem.

After installing Windows XP Pro from a CD created using HFSLIP. To date I have included all three printer updates (see quote box below), and most of the other updates on mimo's update list. It now appears that one or more of these printer updates is (most likely) causing the problem I am experiencing below.

Problem: Printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' is not created (as should happen) when
'Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 and .NET Framework 3.5 Family update (KB951847) x86'
is installed. I installed this via Windows Update (or Microsoft Update) immediately after installing Windows.

The three updates below (on mimo's update list) are related to 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer'. KB971314 says "Therefore, all PCL inbox printer driver installations are unsuccessful."

So I began to wonder if installing one/all of these three printer updates (remember these updates were included in the HFSLIP build) on a machine with the problem (defined above) might cause the missing printer to show up. So I tried it on my workbench machine (running build from experiment c, see my earlier post), and it worked - the missing printer suddenly showed up.

Here's what I did...
o I first installed *KB961118*.exe, restarted computer, printer still missing.
o I next installed *KB971314*.exe, restarted computer, printer still missing.
o Then I installed *KB91276*.exe, restarted computer, and BAM the missing printer was now there. Actually, the printer showed up (under Control Panel > "Printers and Faxes") as soon as I finished installing this update, before I restarted the computer. I expected that *KB91276*.exe alone was enough, and futher testing confirmed this.

mimo's update list (Last list update: 2010, March 31)

2009-08 Printer Update (when XPSEPSC will be installed) Optional KB971276
WindowsXP-KB971276-v3-x86-ENU.exe (only in English) HF

2009-08 Printer Update (when NET 3.51 SP1 will be installed) Optional KB971314
WindowsXP-KB971314-x86-ENU.exe HF

2009-08 Printer Update (when NET 3.51 SP1 will be installed) Optional KB961118
WindowsXP-KB961118-x86-ENU.exe HF


Experiment -f-
I excluded the three printer updates above (also HFAAO, .reg tweaks, sysoc defrag util, and all updates required by Microsoft/Windows updates except those marked High Priority).

Test results: This install does not have the problem described above. In other words, after installing the .NET Framework component (via Windows Update), the printer 'Microsoft XPS Document Writer' now exists (as should happen).

Experiment -g-
I added back all except the three printer updates. In other words, my normal build except that I leave out these three printer updates.

Test results: same as -g- results above.

Experiment -h-
Do a test to confirm that including these printer updates causes the problem described above. To do this test I added back in the three printer updates. In other words, this test includes the same files as -g- except that here I INCLUDE the three printer updates EXCLUDED in -g-.

Test results. Indeed, the problem (as described above) exists with this build.

My conclusion: Including these three printer files in my HFSLIP build caused the problem I explained above. It is possible that only one of them is causing the problem, but determining this would require further testing. At this point, it makes sense to me to exclude all three since .NET Framework is not part of my HFSLIP build.

Lilla

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Edited by Lilla, 05 April 2010 - 11:38 PM.


#2339
tommyp

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Glad you got it figured out Lilla. Thanks for posting the message on the xp updates thread for mimo. Doesn't it feel good to isosize? ;)
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#2340
Lilla

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Glad you got it figured out Lilla. Thanks for posting the message on the xp updates thread for mimo. Doesn't it feel good to isosize? ;)

I'm glad too. It feels good to have figured it out, and in only 8 iterations. Thanks for your support and guidance.

To reconsider what updates I was including was good advise, and is how I found the problem. However sometimes even after reading the KB article, it is hard to know if one should include or exclude an update. This is certainly the case with these three printer updates.

Now I need to figure out if after installing from an HFSLIP build that does not include these three printer updates, should I install all/some/none of these three printer updates after I install the .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (KB951847) update from Windows Update. I install .NET Framework immediately after installing Windows.

Lilla

Edited by Lilla, 05 April 2010 - 11:42 PM.


#2341
Kiki Burgh

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hi Lilla! sorry for jumping into this just now ... this may not be the resolution but have you tried using Silent .NET Maker synthesized 20100118 - W2K/XP/2K3 x86 by strel (previously started by tomcat)? it works well with hfslip ... i tried to ask about the xps printer updates in passing somewhere in the thread ... could be worth a shot
cheers!
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#2342
tommyp

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To reconsider what updates I was including was good advise, and is how I found the problem. However sometimes even after reading the KB article, it is hard to know if one should include or exclude an update. This is certainly the case with these three printer updates.

Lilla


All KB articles say what software is affected. In the case of the XPS printer one, the article said something along the lines of .net 3. Remember, .net3 is a separate program, just like MS Office. It's not part of the OS install disk. HFSLIP pretty much concentrates on OS specific things, not post install stuff like office, .net, other.
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#2343
Lilla

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To reconsider what updates I was including was good advise, and is how I found the problem. However sometimes even after reading the KB article, it is hard to know if one should include or exclude an update. This is certainly the case with these three printer updates.

Lilla

All KB articles say what software is affected. In the case of the XPS printer one, the article said something along the lines of .net 3. Remember, .net3 is a separate program, just like MS Office. It's not part of the OS install disk. HFSLIP pretty much concentrates on OS specific things, not post install stuff like office, .net, other.

Tommyp,

Thank you for that clarifying explanation. When I think about it that way, it makes total sense to me that I should EXCLUDE those three printer updates in my HFSLIP build.

Edited by Lilla, 07 April 2010 - 06:33 PM.


#2344
Lilla

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hi Lilla! sorry for jumping into this just now ... this may not be the resolution but have you tried using Silent .NET Maker synthesized 20100118 - W2K/XP/2K3 x86 by strel (previously started by tomcat)? it works well with hfslip ... i tried to ask about the xps printer updates in passing somewhere in the threa ... could be worth a shot
cheers!

Kiki,
Thanks for sharing your thought. It is relevant to this discussion for sure.

A while back I had a look at that site, but I wasn't comfortable with all the decisions about what to include and exclude so I didn't try it. Doesn't mean it isn't great and wonderful, just that I decided I didn't want to spend the time it would take to get my mind wrapped around all the decisions involved.

As it is, I simply install .NET Framework immediately after I install Windows. I install it from Microsoft/Windows Update. I'm OK with this.

Lilla

Edited by Lilla, 07 April 2010 - 04:59 PM.


#2345
bphlpt

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... it makes total sense to me that I should not EXCLUDE those three printer updates in my HFSLIP build.


Excuse me Lilla, but did you mean to say that you plan to EXCLUDE those three printer updates, ie NOT use them, or that you plan to NOT exclude them, ie USE them? From the context of your message you caught me off guard - I expected you to say the opposite of what you did.

Cheers and Regards

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#2346
Lilla

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... it makes total sense to me that I should not EXCLUDE those three printer updates in my HFSLIP build.


Excuse me Lilla, but did you mean to say that you plan to EXCLUDE those three printer updates, ie NOT use them, or that you plan to NOT exclude them, ie USE them? From the context of your message you caught me off guard - I expected you to say the opposite of what you did.

Cheers and Regards

Thank you. My mistake. I plan to EXCLUDE those three printer updates in my HFSLIP build.
I fixed the wording in my post now.

Edited by Lilla, 07 April 2010 - 06:37 PM.


#2347
U149113

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Tommyp, I was looking to use WinSetupFromUSB with my build/update process (HFSLIP to Nlite to CD). Would like to go HFSLIP to Nlite to WinSetupFromUSB. WinSetupFromUSB uses <USB ROOT DRIVE>\Winsetup\XPpSP3\ as it's directory structure before it gets to the root of the XP install. What do I need to watch out for with hard coded path in the .inf files (if any) when using my \SOURCESS build?

#2348
bphlpt

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You need to read carefully the following 2 threads - IE8 integration on XPSP3 breaks with "manual" install and This update was not built into my system. It seems there has been SOME success in trying to do this, but it hasn't been consistent. This is also somewhat similar to the fact that repair installs using HFSLIP prepared disks don't work either (though it seems to me like it should) Google for threads where this is discussed. tommyp's main position is that HFSLIP was designed and is meant for use for clean installation from CD/DVD, and for that purpose it works just fine. It seems that it is something that HFSLIP does or doesn't do that causes USB based installations to fail, but unless something has changed lately he is currently not able to invest very much time in trying to sort out what's different between nLite and HFSLIP such that one works from USB and one doesn't. I know there are others who would like this situation to be resolved, so you're not alone in your request. Even though many are switching to Windows 7 there is still a lot of life left in XP. In fact both tommyp and fdv just recently, finally, switched to XP from Win2K themselves.

If you are willing to do a LOT of the work and tests yourself, tommyp MIGHT be talked into reviewing your results and offering his advice, and if the problem can be further narrowed down, maybe even making a few changes to see if anything can be improved. Once you get started, others might join in and help with their own tests, expanding on your results, but you'll probably have to get the ball rolling. If you wish to proceed, I would suggest making a few attempts yourself, noting carefully the errors, and report your findings, or your success if you're lucky, preferably in a new thread. Hopefully then we can create a dialog and make some improvements. Good luck and please do keep us informed of your progress.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt, 23 April 2010 - 08:52 PM.

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#2349
U149113

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You need to read carefully the following 2 threads - IE8 integration on XPSP3 breaks with "manual" install and This update was not built into my system. It seems there has been SOME success in trying to do this, but it hasn't been consistent. This is also somewhat similar to the fact that repair installs using HFSLIP prepared disks don't work either (though it seems to me like it should) Google for threads where this is discussed. tommyp's main position is that HFSLIP was designed and is meant for use for clean installation from CD/DVD, and for that purpose it works just fine. It seems that it is something that HFSLIP does or doesn't do that causes USB based installations to fail, but unless something has changed lately he is currently not able to invest very much time in trying to sort out what's different between nLite and HFSLIP such that one works from USB and one doesn't. I know there are others who would like this situation to be resolved, so you're not alone in your request. Even though many are switching to Windows 7 there is still a lot of life left in XP. In fact both tommyp and fdv just recently, finally, switched to XP from Win2K themselves.

If you are willing to do a LOT of the work and tests yourself, tommyp MIGHT be talked into reviewing your results and offering his advice, and if the problem can be further narrowed down, maybe even making a few changes to see if anything can be improved. Once you get started, others might join in and help with their own tests, expanding on your results, but you'll probably have to get the ball rolling. If you wish to proceed, I would suggest making a few attempts yourself, noting carefully the errors, and report your findings, or your success if you're lucky, preferably in a new thread. Hopefully then we can create a dialog and make some improvements. Good luck and please do keep us informed of your progress.

Cheers and Regards


Thanks for the well thought out response. I’ll read those two threads later tonight.

I did some tests tonight and as you predicted there were issues in the initial file copy phase. Probably about 25-30 “files not found” so I am assuming those have hard coded paths in .inf’s or requirements that would have to be manually edited to make this possible. As you stated HFSLIP was designed for CD/DVD platform and it works great for that purpose. It’s reliability and the fact that it runs very quickly and w/o intervention is one of the selling points for me. Plus mim0's updated list is unmatched and makes version control very easy. Nlite is great at what it does as well. I’ve gotten to the point where I want to migrate to USB for all installations so I was looking at an app to bridge that gap. WinSetupFromUSB seems to be furthest along and offers multi-OS USB installations which at this point is really attractive.

So my question is, since I never had a need to tweak any of the .inf or file manifests, how do I correlate failed file copies to the corresponding .inf to check or validate why they are not being picked up upon setup? Is there a good starting point for this process? I validated that the files are indeed on the USB so I guess I need to work backwards to get to a place where I debug the errors.

Thanks again.

#2350
tommyp

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New beta is up that fixes the french xp home file copy issue.

Known issue - when slipstreaming ie8, the user can't enter in a user password at the logon ui. I'm not sure how to fix it, but I'll glady accept inputs on how to fix it. Apparantly this issue was around ever since IE8 was introduced.
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